Is anyone still follwing the Annie Jacobsen updates?
Aug 12th, 2004, 02:29 PM
#21
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Although the following link does not involve Anne Jacobsen, there was another unrelated terror incident described by a passenger on an international flight. Why didn't this receive publicity? It sounds at least as harrowing as her flight!
http://www.frommers.com/cgi-bin/[email protected]^[email protected]
http://www.frommers.com/cgi-bin/[email protected]^[email protected]
Aug 12th, 2004, 02:55 PM
#22
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Scarlett, I know you would report something if it was suspicious.....and I agree, you can't believe everything you hear from others. Maybe Annie Jacobsen exaggerated everything, I don't know. However, at the very least she saw a group of "suspicious" people doing "suspicious" things and she reported it.
As for the flight attendant bringing alcohol into the cockpit, well..... if you witnessed a passenger get into a car with an open container of alcohol (even if he wasn't driving), wouldn't you raise an eyebrow. Better yet, didn't you start a post about seeing a woman give her very small child a drink of her cappuccino?
I'm not picking on you (really), but to me all of these topics are reason for concern. Not panic, but concern.
Peace...out!
As for the flight attendant bringing alcohol into the cockpit, well..... if you witnessed a passenger get into a car with an open container of alcohol (even if he wasn't driving), wouldn't you raise an eyebrow. Better yet, didn't you start a post about seeing a woman give her very small child a drink of her cappuccino?
I'm not picking on you (really), but to me all of these topics are reason for concern. Not panic, but concern.
Peace...out!
Aug 12th, 2004, 03:43 PM
#23
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And one more response re Flt #327:
Everything that could have been done with respect to Flight 327 WAS done-AND IT WAS A NON-EVENT-THE POST 9/11 SYSTEM WORKED. There was cooperation on all levels- the aircraft was met at the gate by local, state AND federal law enforcement officials, who interviewed the Syrians and the pax, and found no violation of federal law, either with respect to the flight, or with respect to their I-94s (the fact that one has an expired visa means little to nothing in and of itself-many other factors are at play before an alien can be declared in overstay status) Not to mention the fact that there were FAMS on board WHO ARE PAID TO BE SUSPICIOUS. The FAMS were checking the lavs-regularly-, and observing the scene-there was NO interference with a flight crew member of any kind on this flight-therefore, there was no reason for the FAMS to act. AND the Syrian pax were NOT standing when the plane was in descent after the seat belt sign went on, as that would be a violation of FAA regs. The pax in question were in fact asked to take their seats, and they did. The Syrian musicians then took a JetBlue flight-all together again! after their gig with no incident, nothing whatsoever reported on any front-only #327 -because A. Jacobsen decided to write a sensationalist story that was way short on facts and way long on speculation and dramatics.
But that is not to say that one should not always be alert and aware as to what is going on - a little paranoia is not a bad thing-certain pax apparently did feel uneasy on Flt. 327, and that is why the flight was met by law enforcement. That which could have been done, was done-and no one in charge disregarded the concerns and unease of the pax.
Everything that could have been done with respect to Flight 327 WAS done-AND IT WAS A NON-EVENT-THE POST 9/11 SYSTEM WORKED. There was cooperation on all levels- the aircraft was met at the gate by local, state AND federal law enforcement officials, who interviewed the Syrians and the pax, and found no violation of federal law, either with respect to the flight, or with respect to their I-94s (the fact that one has an expired visa means little to nothing in and of itself-many other factors are at play before an alien can be declared in overstay status) Not to mention the fact that there were FAMS on board WHO ARE PAID TO BE SUSPICIOUS. The FAMS were checking the lavs-regularly-, and observing the scene-there was NO interference with a flight crew member of any kind on this flight-therefore, there was no reason for the FAMS to act. AND the Syrian pax were NOT standing when the plane was in descent after the seat belt sign went on, as that would be a violation of FAA regs. The pax in question were in fact asked to take their seats, and they did. The Syrian musicians then took a JetBlue flight-all together again! after their gig with no incident, nothing whatsoever reported on any front-only #327 -because A. Jacobsen decided to write a sensationalist story that was way short on facts and way long on speculation and dramatics.
But that is not to say that one should not always be alert and aware as to what is going on - a little paranoia is not a bad thing-certain pax apparently did feel uneasy on Flt. 327, and that is why the flight was met by law enforcement. That which could have been done, was done-and no one in charge disregarded the concerns and unease of the pax.
Aug 12th, 2004, 08:10 PM
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You make a valid point, Buffalo Girl-for that reason I posted both FAA and TSA 800 numbers so that people can report issues of concern in the aviation safety and security arena to the agencies who have the authority to investigate these matters. That absolutely means a F/A observed to be making a drink on the job. (if Deblynn had provided a few more details, including the flight number and the date of flight, I would have reported it for her to get the investigation rolling)
And if posters on this site for their own little reasons wish to make light of, or be dismissive of a F/A drinking on the job-why, that is their choice--but like I said, if there were a safety situation involving an inebriated F/A that was causally related to a pax' injury or loss of life, why, these people would be the first to engage in bitter recriminations against the Govt. and the airline for having "allowed" this situation to occur.
But I believe most people understand that it is in everyone's interest to report such matters when they observe them, regardless of how certain they are of the situation. Better to report and have the professionals check it out-no one will think you foolish for doing so-that's why there are hotline numbers!
With regard to the Jacobsen story, there quite simply is no validity to the inferences the author draws and the allegations she makes. Like I said, all 14 Syrians flew back from Long Beach to NYC on JetBlue and there was not one reported complaint by a pax or flight crewmember regarding their presence or their actions on board that flight.
OTOH-the only reason we know about Flt. 327 is because A. Jacobsen wrote a compelling story, an over-dramatized account, as it were, and in the telling, drew unfounded and speculative inferences about what was going on. The author of the National Review article that was referenced on this site did the exact same thing-the author of that story was a lawyer who clearly did not have one shred of aviation expertise-yet this did not stop him from making all sorts of wildly speculative comments about the "meaning" of the events on board the flight!
The point of the Jacobsen story is that the concerns that she, fellow pax, and some F/As expressed involving the Syrian pax did not go unheeded by the flight deck crew-which is the sole reason the flight was met by law enforcement upon landing-NOT because the Syrians had done anything to violate the law or cause the FAMs on board the flight to take any action whatsoever against them-but out of an abundance of caution to let the authorities to check out an alleged suspicious situation in this time of heightened security.
And I really can't fault her or the concerned others for that.
And if posters on this site for their own little reasons wish to make light of, or be dismissive of a F/A drinking on the job-why, that is their choice--but like I said, if there were a safety situation involving an inebriated F/A that was causally related to a pax' injury or loss of life, why, these people would be the first to engage in bitter recriminations against the Govt. and the airline for having "allowed" this situation to occur.
But I believe most people understand that it is in everyone's interest to report such matters when they observe them, regardless of how certain they are of the situation. Better to report and have the professionals check it out-no one will think you foolish for doing so-that's why there are hotline numbers!
With regard to the Jacobsen story, there quite simply is no validity to the inferences the author draws and the allegations she makes. Like I said, all 14 Syrians flew back from Long Beach to NYC on JetBlue and there was not one reported complaint by a pax or flight crewmember regarding their presence or their actions on board that flight.
OTOH-the only reason we know about Flt. 327 is because A. Jacobsen wrote a compelling story, an over-dramatized account, as it were, and in the telling, drew unfounded and speculative inferences about what was going on. The author of the National Review article that was referenced on this site did the exact same thing-the author of that story was a lawyer who clearly did not have one shred of aviation expertise-yet this did not stop him from making all sorts of wildly speculative comments about the "meaning" of the events on board the flight!
The point of the Jacobsen story is that the concerns that she, fellow pax, and some F/As expressed involving the Syrian pax did not go unheeded by the flight deck crew-which is the sole reason the flight was met by law enforcement upon landing-NOT because the Syrians had done anything to violate the law or cause the FAMs on board the flight to take any action whatsoever against them-but out of an abundance of caution to let the authorities to check out an alleged suspicious situation in this time of heightened security.
And I really can't fault her or the concerned others for that.
Aug 13th, 2004, 09:44 PM
#35
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I missed tonights show, due to son's football practice and the Olympic ceremonies. Did anyone see the MSNBC show, just for any impressions?
I am one who needs to gauge an individual's credibility by listening to them and considering the facts. Anyway, I'm not losing sleep over this, but it will be interesting to see if anything more develops from this one particular flight..
I am one who needs to gauge an individual's credibility by listening to them and considering the facts. Anyway, I'm not losing sleep over this, but it will be interesting to see if anything more develops from this one particular flight..
Aug 14th, 2004, 03:07 AM
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I missed the show too. A transcript of the program will eventually be posted on www.msnbc.com. It has not been posted yet.
Aug 14th, 2004, 07:51 AM
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All I have to say, is, MSNBC is great at covering stories like this to death-now that other pax see the author getting all the free publicity, they reasonably think, why not make myself available so I too, can have my 15 min. of fame? That's not an unreasonable thought, heck, I might want to have a little "t.v. exposure" myself if I were them!
But in terms of anything substantive, they're beating a dead horse. It's just an urban myth at this point.
But in terms of anything substantive, they're beating a dead horse. It's just an urban myth at this point.
Aug 16th, 2004, 11:57 AM
#39
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For another unbiased view there is a summary from Jacobsen and another passenger on the plane at:
http://www.pandagon.net/mtarchives/003123.html
http://www.pandagon.net/mtarchives/003123.html
