I think a lot of people are missing the point with why people got so angry in Alabama at the Top Gear guys. (BTW, Top Gear is one of my favorite shows, and I saw that episode on BBCAmerica last month.)

Sure, the things written on the cars were provocative - that was the challenge. And in all honesty, only Richard's truck was really that provocative (the homosexual one) - the others were very mild. Would people in Alabama threaten to beat up someone for having a Hillary sign on their car? Of course not, though they likely might be pretty vocal about it. The reaction was likely less to do with the actual content of the messages and far more to do with the fact that these people KNEW they were being mocked to their faces and being videotaped. Sure, their response only furthered public perception of them as backwoods, intolerant, violent bigots - and who's to say they weren't - but they probably would have just kept to themselves, muttered under their breath, and gone about their day without the cameras or the presence of the whole Top Gear crew.

I can think of neighborhoods all over the U.S. and in Europe where you wouldn't want to paint something deliberately provocative on a vehicle, meant to openly ridicule the locals, and then videotape them. It isn't a Southern thing.

That said, there are some pockets of intolerance in the South (and in the rest of the U.S. and in the rest of the world).

Very good points, kgh8M.

However, re: If "it isn't a Southern thing" to go up north and bait the Yankees, frankly, it's not a particularly northern-US thing to go down South and do what the TopGear people did. These jerks were Brits on a mission to be outrageous AND with a fairly familiar condescension to embarrass (a) Americans, (b) Southerners, and (c) rural people, based on stereotyping that they count on getting confirmed.

You do have to wonder how British viewers would react to having an American film crew go to, perhaps, the north country, on a similar mission.

Ironically, both "limeys" and Southerners like to use the word "Yankee" as umbrella-term for people they don't like. As I said, I agree that it's not a Southern thing to go to another country or even another state to stir up trouble; but I do know that when a northerner is in the South, he/she can count on hearing constant antagonism toward "damn Yankees," often forgetting that the friend they're talking to came from Up North.

Cfc, if you only would have posted this earlier People on the Europe board were arging with me that the word Yankee is not an offensive word to Northeasterners. I've noticed that people that live in the western US have never experienced it and have no problem with being called Yankee. My spouse feels that way. Bt most certainly Yankee is used as an insult by people from the south. I lived in Pa which was of course is the border state for the North vs. the South and have heard it called negatively numerous times. Some just don't get it. Kinda like the confederate flag thing.

Again, I am not saying that all people from the south hate northerners which is certainly not true but it does exist, a few hundred years after the civil war.

"a few hundred years"?

Okay then, 146 years ago. Does that change the crux of what I wrote? I was speaking in generalities, zeesh. Anything else?

travlinwifey,

Just the crustiness about how much time has elapsed since the Civil War is an example.... and sorry I didn't chime in about "Yankee" earlier -- a little busy.

But it's NOT a neutral term when used by any Southerner, ever. And if you live in the South and aren't Southern, you find this out fast. There are more Southerners than "outsiders" or even Southerners, themselves, who are still negative about Northerners, by which they mean Northeasterners.

Had an interesting, but sad, conversation with someone from western NC. He was at pains to say he refused to feel guilty about slavery -- it was a fact, it was long ago, his family didn't have slaves, many slaves were treated better than servants Up North were, etc. And he made the valid point that the North would not have been upset about secession and slavery if it hadn't been for some of the economic realities.

BUT he was at equally great pains to insist that the "federalists" had perpetrated inexcusable atrocities when they "invaded" the South and that Yankees should feel continuingly guilty about all that.

I think if his town had been invaded by the TopGear people, he would have assumed they were damnYankees or put up to it by damnYankees.

Hi cfc, I've been told numerous things the past years that were shocking, the best was that Lincoln abolished slavery "for spite", that was in Savannah. It wasn't meant as an insult, it was a matter of fact to the person stating it (a tour guide, lol). I've learned that people in the south have a different interpretation of the civil war than the northerners.

And again so no one gets mad at me each person is different everywhere you go.

One of my closest friends is from North Carolina and some of my friends from college transplanted from the NE to the Carolinas. I do have some hesitation about our home in NE Florida because my spouse is half asian but so far everything has been fine. I did notice when we went into Cracker Barrel he was the only person of different ethnicity and for the first time in many years I noticed a different racial structure as our city, most of the places we visit are multicultural. However my small town in Pa is predominantly caucasian too but we don't go back often.

Well, yes. The difference between "a few hundred years" and 146 years IS the difference between a "generalization" and SWEEPING "generalizations".

"zeesh"

starrsy -- wasn't saying that you were incorrect or hypersensitive in pointing out that "a few hundred years" was off by quite a bit. Just meant to say that it suggested how much more "recent" the Civil War and its "insults" is for some people than others. I didn't put it very well.

People who believe they were wronged and never got adequate redress (or revenge) have much longer memories about events than people who believe the outcome was acceptable.

Ah yes, the term Yankee. As someone from New York City who now lives in Middle TN I have been the recipient of that phrase more times than I care to count. And everytime it was an insult. Sometimes jokingly, sometimes derogatory but never in a good way. Followed often by "bless your heart" another veiled insult.

I have a few thoughts and really am sorry I will have limited internet service in the next few days to continue following this thread.

1 - I think the show was a set-up. I think that the same crew could go to ANY location in the USA in the same vehicles and paint sayings on the vehicles designed to mock, taunt, belittle the residents. Bring a camera crew along and you would get very similar results.

I have traveled this country extensively and have found ONLY nice people everywhere I have gone, but IF I had traveled with the INTENT to stir things up, I'm sure that would have been the results.

I remember my first trip to NYC. I couldn't sleep so sat on the ledge of the hotel window at the Grand Hyatt and watched the "show" below. I saw two cars at a light, then men with bats get out and start hitting on each other, jump back in the cars and speed off. One car had a flag painted on the roof. I checked later and learned that it was the flag of Puerto Rico. I have no idea what identifying features were visible on the ground. I have no idea what was said or done to provoke the scuffle, but the occupants of the cars did not seem to be best friends.

Did I walk away with the idea that all Puerto Ricans jump out of cars and beat people in neigbhoring cars with baseball bats? Your best guess will suffice.

2. I am a Southerner. I am a Southerner for generations - with the typical Scot-Irish background a bit of Cherokee mixed in. All of the above "nationalities" have chips on their shoulders to some degree. I betcha the folks in YOUR background have chips on THEIR shoulders to some degree. German. English. Scot. Irish. Cherokee. Mexican. Catholic. Jewish.

IMO people as a rule don't like other people positioning themselves as "better" than they are. I also betcha that if someone wanted to stir up you and yours - and brought a camera crew around - they would be successful.

3. Now, the North/South thing. The difference between "a few hundred years" and less than 150 years is huge. HUGE. We are talking recent family history for some of us. Sherman marched from Atlanta to Savannah 9 miles from here. My family members watched and waited and listened for reports and prayed the "Yankees" would not come here. Sherman sent two flanks - actually on both sides and the intent was to destroy the infrastructure - at least any infrastructure that was left after years of war with the men gone fighting. This wasn't a Sunday stroll - this was WAR. This was not considered "The Civil War". This was an occupying army killing and destroying the other side. Around these parts it was called "The War of Northern Aggression". Womenfolk were afraid for their lives and homes. If they got off "lightly" maybe any food and livestock might be stolen. They may not have been raped, but they expected to be. All in fear of being killed. 9 miles from here.

For what? Slavery? People around these parts were "dirt farmers". Slaves?! The war to them was about anything other than slavery.

My grandmother is 106 (still alive). Do the math. Anyone in here family 37 years and older in 1864 were waiting and praying. Right here. Outside this door. Watching the smoke from 9 miles away. The war was a part of her oral history.

Did I have ancestors who fought in the war? Sure. Do I know their names and when they fought and the details? Heck no. My uncle does because he enjoys geneology.

Do I "dwell" on the war. Good grief, no! Do I get pissed off when folks mock the difference in Southerners' perspective of the war. Definitely. ESPECIALLY when I read that they think the war was "a few hundred years ago".

Do I know a single person who "hates" Northerners? Do I call anyone a "Yankee". Only when they are being jerks. Did a family member's 91 year old grandfather jump up and down when she married a black man? Definitely not. Does she fear for her safety when she and her husband travels around the South. Good grief, NO! The world has moved on. The SOUTH has moved on. We just don't like it when folks mock us. I'd bet my next week's paycheck that you don't either.

4. And, now to take this off on a real tangent. Iraq. If you think Southerners have a chip on their collective shoulders about the Civil War, have you given any thought what Iraqis are going to feel going forward - even going forward decades?

Of course if you buy gwb's hype that we were bringing them democracy and fighting the "evil-doers" on their behalf, then I know the answer to that question. But, even years after "Mission Accomplished" we are still losing American lives every day. We are the invading force. Exactly WHO is it that we are fighting there? Who is the Blue and who is the Grey? Why are we losing American lives every day? What do the Iraqis think? When they eat a meal at the end of the day, what are they saying about the American soldiers outside their door and what reason do they think they (the soldiers) are still there? Are they going to remember the lives lost and the damage to their homes and cities for decades? And when we do pull out (if we ever pull out) will that be the end of the story for the Iraqis? I just wonder.

Back to the OP -
Wonder what the show would be like if TopGear did the same thing in Baghdad? :-?

A couple of web sites to read.

http://www.nps.gov/history/seac/histback.htm

http://www.docsnews.com/johnsons.html

Neither side "won the war".

One of my great grandfather fought for the South and one for the North. The ironic thing is both lost an arm.

In the locator they offer at Andersonville I have been able to find many of my relitives that were imprisoned there.

Hey Starrsville, don't get me wrong, I love the South! But I will always be a Yankee I guess. And your explanation of the war is the same one I hear from my friends here. I had never heard the term "War of Northern Aggression" until I moved to Memphis where I think the war ended about 2 years ago

[Just the crustiness about how much time has elapsed since the Civil War is an example.... and sorry I didn't chime in about "Yankee" earlier -- a little busy.]

...and if this had been the other way around, a lot of you guys would have been sneering that it was just another example of 'southern ignorance'. But, when it's the other way around, it's described as 'crustiness'.

[Ironically, both "limeys" and Southerners like to use the word "Yankee" as umbrella-term for people they don't like.]
This is not true in most of my experience. I use it fondly in reference to my friends that are not born here, to explain their unfamiliarity of southern ways or foods or traditions. Usually done in fun when the friend is 'throwing off' on a southern expression, accent or food, etc.
Or if another southern friend is saying something the 'Yankee' friend may not comprehend, I may remind them that this point will be missed due to the fact that the friend is a Yankee....(& therefore please explain it so as not to be rude).

SharonG: Yes, you will always be a Yankee, just like I will always be a Southerner, no matter if I moved to Boston or Maine & lived out the rest of my years. (Don't you think the people there would always refer to me as the Southerner with the 'accent')?



That is not a derogatory term to me.
Damned Yankee is. That is the jerk afflicted with a superior attitude to which starrsville referred.

Hey OleSouthernBelle: the funny thing is that when I go home to NYC, my family thinks I sound "southern" (I think it really means I talk slower). But they love to come visit me here because people are so nice to them and everybody is friendly. Plus my brother was in heaven when he first tasted sweet tea.