People shouldn't expect Disneyland, but in a way that's how San Francisco promotes itself. As far as city attractions are concerned like museums, music, theater, etc., there are actually better cities to visit. But SF is popular because people think it's "pretty". Tourism is now SF's #1 industry, and therefore it can't afford to ignore these issues. Other major cities are less dependent on tourism and so it doesn't seem as much of an issue in those places.

Alohaaaa,
Just returned from a "mini-vacation weekend" to SF.
Got Harbor Court Inn for $82/night. Great little hotel. Member of the Kimpton Group (Most of the Monacos).

Saturday, we walked up to Gordon Biersch to meet some i'net sports friends for the first time and watched a beautiful sunset back over the bay w/ the Bay Bridge lights slowly taking over for the sun..."When the lights, go downnnn in The City..." (Apologies to Steve Perry and Journey).

Hoofed it down to Pier 23 for dinner. Good fish...great view.
Walked back to the hotel.

Sunday walked up to Pac Bell with 2 very swollen heads.
Dodgers v. Giants yesterday. Yeaaa G'ints.
Managed to stay until the 7th then walked up 3rd St to take in the newly opened UnSq.
Ran into trouble when we finally found out where "The 21st Amendment" brewpub/cafe is located. Can you say "hair of the dawg"?

Walked the rest of the way down to Market St and over to UnSq and took it all in. Nice job. With all of the tourists hanging out on it, it reminded of of the Spanish Steps in Rome. Not as old! ;-)
Briefly spoke w/ one of SFPD's finest and asked if they keep it this nice.."We'll be giving it our best shot".

Walked back down Market to Embarcadero to HarbCrt.
Then we walked up to F'Wharf and I have to confess, actually ate dinner at a F'wharf restarant for the first time
in how long? (other than Scoma's which we really don't consider a touristy F'Wharf place.)
We had a great meal at Nonna Rose's. A pleasant suprise!
Large seafood salad and the pasta frutta di mare was also quite generous w/ the seafood.

So we did a lot of walking in, thru and around The City.
Yep. There are still homeless. Yes. Did catch an occassional whiff of urine. Yes. One person actually shook his coffee cup full of change at me.
Yes. It does sound like the B of Supvs are serious in their efforts to get the homeless problem under control and it just may get done.

They had some success years ago w/ former mayor Frank Jordan's controversial "Matrix Program".
It was kind of like Mayor Giuliani's clean up in NYC.

But ahhhh...SF. You'll never know. They are still arguing over how to repair the '89 E'quake damage!
Mahalo,
Kal

ps to kam, we'll never win this SF vs. "everywhere" else argument. But I know I'll keep on going. To each their own, yah?

Thanks for the reinforcements, Kal. I get so tired of the bashers. Why do they come? And, while I did have to drive, we did park the car and walked down Valencia and over by SFMOMA---would have parked at Union Square but the line to the garage was horrendous. I will still smile when I think of the old homeless guy, heavy tweed coat, long grey hair and 3D type paper glasses---God bless him.

How can we defend San Francisco when this is what it has become?


There are approximately 7,300 homeless people on the streets of San Francisco. The reason for such a high number should be obvious to anyone whose vision is not blurred by political correctness.
The city?s policy on the homeless can be best summed up as, ?If you build it, they will come.? The city has, and they did. By its policies, San Francisco has created a market for homelessness, transforming the downtown area into a regional magnet for the homeless.
Unlike other places with a better climate and kinder topography, San Francisco offers a number of ways for the homeless to get cash from the government, not just voucher services. For the most part, there are no questions asked and little or nothing required of the recipient by way of information or work.
At the same time, it has become fashionable to defend homelessness as just another lifestyle choice, with a bill of rights that includes government funding, freedom from responsibility,
and a license to practice obnoxious behavior, including the conversion of San Francisco into a vast latrine.
The result is that the majority of homeless in San Francisco are addicts and drunks, who use the cash to feed their habits. This has, in turn, created a market for the flourishing criminal element that is now taking over the streets of San Francisco.

kam: The wife & I visited San Francisco in mid-May. There were a lot of beautiful places to see, some very unusual characters & neighborhoods, some homeless people who really didn't bother us much, a few areas that could have been cleaned up, but no sign of urination or defecation in the streets. Overall it was a very pleasant trip. If people want perfection go to Disneyland. We even got to experience a mild earthquake one evening. I would go back again.

Thanks, Gary. Glad you liked your trip to SF. I don't recall an earthquake, but we who live here become a bit immune to the smaller ones. I am only a person who lives in Palo Alto and has nothing to do with tourism in SF, but I love the city and hate to see it being bashed on this forum. I used to live in LA where I saw as much or more homeless people, but somehow LA doesn't get the bashing that we do. Wonder why? Maybe LA is just off the tourists' list of places to go----except Disney.

I still am amazed at these posts about SF! For weeks before my familys trip over the 4th of July I was on line alot to find out the raves and rants about this city. I got great info from the likes of KAM and others and they were beneficial to our trip. I still see that there is SF bashing ongoing and relentless. Who are these people and what is it that motivates their downright disgust? My family had one of the all time great vacations when we were there and are planning another! We stayed at the finer hotels (Palace, Westin) and at Sheraton FW. We walked and drove Union Square, Fillmore, Castro, downtown, the wharf, Chinatown, Golden Gate, Lombard, Powell, you name it we saw it. SF was much more than just "pretty". It was history, culture, beauty, architecture, unique, and a true vacation destination. Call it what you want, but don't tell my family SF has "changed" or deteriorated, we loved it and embraced it. Yeah I saw a few homeless, panhandlers, and such but in NO WAY did it appear in my mind as a "serious problem the city has". As my son said when we left for home, "Mom, I think I really did leave my heart in San Francisco". We could'nt have agreed with him more. In defence of San Francisco Kam, the ONLY thing you should be ashamed about is the few people who for some strange reason feel they have to "bash" this great city!

Kam I don't care how you spell things and I am deffinatly the last one to critize someone because if it. I have a spell checker that checks my email before it goes out! I am from Indianapolis and my husband is from the southern part of the state an we pronounce some words very differently! I still get a kick out of the way he says the work doll! Okay enough of that. We are only human we are bound to make typos every once in awhile and these post are not being turned in for a letter grade! Well I appriciated your review. I belong to Ambassidar Travel Club out of Indianapolis that specializes in day trips. This club is affliated with an airline of coarse. (I am pretty sure I did not use the correct spelling there---I apologize to you and everyone who reads this becaus I am as sure as my mother-in-law would do it others will also correct me)I am going to be taking a day trip to San Fransisco in September. This is going to be not only my frist trip to SF, but my first trip to California! I am excited and anxious. There is a planned city tour and I know exactly where we are going, but I left the brochure downstairs and I do not have it avalible to look at. We will have time in the afternoon to do our own thing and will be dropped off at Fishermans Wharf. Do you have any suggestions for me? Thanks Feff

There's a difference between bashing and genuine concern.

I live here - it's a problem. I can't remember the last time I walked to dinner in the neighborhood and didn't run into someone panhandling, selling the "Street Sheet", or laying about on the ground. (This in an area where an average home sells for just under $1 million).

I still encourage visitors to come to San Francisco. But I won't deny the problem (http://www.wewantchange.com).

And Kam - if you got such a kick out of the kook with the 3D glasses - please feel free to drag him home with you to Palo Alto.

But of course Palo Alto is on par with Pacific Heights - rich White folks don't stand for homeless in their neighborhoods - well the rest of us are just trying to meet that standard.

Feff

You may want to have your spell checker checked. Not being mean, just a suggestion.

I've been to San Franscico and seen the homeless problem -- and given out food coupons. I have never felt threatened or imposed, just sad. However, I know many have problems that require resources I cannot supply -- and I want to make my gift count toward food or necissities.

New Orleans if fun - but also full of homeless and urine.

People need to remember that this is a REAL city -- full of hopes, dreams, failure, etc. Not a stupid "sanitized" ertz life product. Use your common sense to protect yourself. Open your heart to life and those in need and accept the City for what it IS.

David,

New York City is a "REAL" City and I have never seen the sheer amount of homelessness and trash in the streets as in SF. There is no excuse for a city as small as SF with a population 10 times less than that of NYC to be so dirty.

Roger,

I am sure that you had a great time in SF since you said that you stayed in the "finer" hotels shielding yourself from the realities of the misery on the streets of SF. I am sure that you had your rose-colored sunglasses on as you walked down the street.

Kam,

Bill has a point, why don't you take some of these needy people home with you to Palo Alto. That way you can have the "atmosphere" of SF right in your own neighborhood.

At the outset, Kam has to assume that everyone who doesn't like SF is of the Disneyland mentality, a theme repeated in later posts by Kam and supporters.

Why do SF supporters have to be so inherently negative and insulting?

First, as SF used to be "America's favorite city," by definition it was appealing to all the "low brow" Middle America that SF supporters love to make fun of. Hey, it was hordes of dentists on vacation and convention from Peoria that filled the hotels of SF.

Second, I live in a big city because I like what cities have to offer. (As a big city, it is not pristine.) I have been to many cities on several continents, including Mexico City, Cairo, Damascus, Moscow, Aleppo, Istambul, Athens, Beirut, and San Juan, not to mention the usuals (London, Rome, etc.)

I am not a "Disneyland" traveler, and I spent months in SF in my youth. I still go there for business a few times a year, but have no desire to stay for an extra day.

Sorry Kam, some people don't like SF anymore. Many of those people like big cities and the things they have to offer. The critics are not just Disneyland fans.

No need to get insulting.

Glad you had a good time Kam, SF is one of my favorite cities. I love it, despite some of it's problems.

For those telling Kam & Roger that they should take homeless people home with them, or don't get the correct view of the city from a luxury hotel, please. They are on vacation, not a Peace Corps. mission. They aren't there to change the city, but to enjoy it. It's up to the residents to get involved and enact change.

Dave no SF,

I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. However, why would you say that a dentist is part of "low brow" Middle America? A dentist, as with any other doctor is considered part of the upper class at least in terms of income and prestige.

Bill, Palo Alto has its own share of homeless and we are trying to deal with it. Your comments are obnoxious. I wonder where you live that you feel you are such an expert about the homeless. By the way, coming up to the city we exited at 4th street and there were no homeless on the off ramp. There were, however, several on 3rd street. What is it about these people that scares you so? Do you fear for your safety or that you might become one of them? I truly don't understand the lack of human kindness here. Feff--if the tour drops you at the Embarcadero, you could take a ferry tour in the bay, take the ferry to Sausalito, or walk down to Ghirardelli Square and the Cannery Building if you like browsing. If you have kids with you Pier 39 is another choice.
Dave: Assuming that you love big cities and have never been pickpocketed by gypsies in Rome etc., I wish you happy times on your next visit to Beirut. I've never been there. Would you like to post a trip report?
Kal: I give up!! To defend SF is just a lost cause. People have such preconceived ideas that they won't listen to me.

Kam - the homeless don't scare me - they are merely a nuisance - like flies.

The majority of them are offered help by the city - and they turn it down. They choose to live how they live.

Perhaps we can offer them a pen near the buffalo in Golden Gate Park.

I feel for the mentally ill, but there should be laws to protect them from themselves.

Thank you Kam I am sure that I will be able to visit some of those places. As for you Huh I am sorry but my spell checker just dosen't interface with this forum, sorry. I am an college educated individual, but I will admit when I make mistakes and unfortantly spelling is not my strong suit. Everyone makes typos, I get e-mail from people all the time with misspellings and sometimes it is written in all lowercase letters.

I first discovered this sight when I was researching for my trip to Boston and Cape Cod earlier this summer. I have found a wealth of information for all of my trips and I have met some very friendly and helpful people, but I am going to be honest I am very appalled to read some of these post. It seems like there are more negetive and nastly comments than helpul advice! Kam just wanted to tell us all about San Franscico and I appreciated that because that is exactly what I came to this forum to do. And before I get bashed for not caring about the homeless problem. It is a very painful and unfortant reality that exist almost everywhere. I do care, I care a lot! My cousin's father became a homeless person and was burned alive while he slept in Indianapolis some years ago, I believe it was 1993.

I just do not like all of the negetivity that goes on around here! This was what I thought to be a fourm to get travel information not a place where you post are constantly critiqued. Please I do not want to hear someone say if you don't like it then don't come here, I have gotten some nice friendly advice. Thanks again Kam and Huh I am not upset with you, I know that my spelling is atrocious.

Awww, go feff yourself with a fisch!
And after that, read a dictionary.

Bill, I truly doubt that you feel for the mentally ill when you offer them a pen next to the buffalo in GG Park. Why not round them up and push them off of Alcatraz? It's the government you should be screaming about, not the homeless people themselves. If you live in the city (I don't and so can't vote this issue) why don't you loosen your purse strings to find a really effective solution to this problem because obviously we haven't found one yet. The voting citizens of SF are part of the problem, not the solution. Willie is not MY mayor!