Kate

Here in California, I see many more young people smoking than middle age or older. There are so many 19-24 year olds that smoke at my daughter's University.

MD

"cb" you are far from educated enough to understand what you cut and paste. Skin allergies are not the same as allergies manifested as asthma, migraines, vomiting, etc. etc. etc. What you found has to do with messing with the chemistry of plants and skin reactivity.

There is absolutely such a thing as allergy to tobacco smoke, as well as kinds of reactivity that might not involve classic allergic responses but are still fully somatic -- and both are common. Tobacco smoke, including second-hand smoke and particulate-matter residues in fabrics where tobacco has been smoked, can cause asthma attacks, migraines, sinus problems, bronchial problems, etc. etc. etc. In combination with the rises in urban and rural air pollution (rural = coal-burning power plants and blow-over from distant urban areas), more and more people are becoming more and more sensitive.

There is also increasing evidence that the epidemic of asthma may have something to do with the fact that buildings are now much more insulated than when grandma was growing up, so fresh air no longer circulates without being "processed" through air conditioning and heating units.

Hotels have such high occupancy in such compact, often insulated quarters, that the concentration of tobacco smoke residues is likely to be high.

As a pulmonologist, I can tell a family of an asthmatic to wash the curtains and bedspreads on a daily basis, get rid of rugs, and keep the wood floors clean. No hotel chain does that, as I'm sure you know.

cb

MD, I may not be a doctor, but I consider myself to be far more "educated" in this particular subject than most people will ever care to be.

The subject of smoking is fascinating, particularly from a sociological point of view. You may or may not agree with me, but in my opinion the whole war on smoking and smokers has more to do with PR and a desperate attempt to isolate a single cause for a wide array of problems. You mention some of these problems in your post.

And now, going back to your original point, can you tell me that there is a known tobacco smoke antigen? We may agree that tobacco smoke generates a response in some people. This reaction may be real or imagined, I don't know. However, can you say beyond reasonable doubt that a tobacco smoke allergy exists?

cbc

The idea of a pulmonologist sitting around browsing a Fodor's travel BB at 4:50 on a Friday afternoon is absolutely laughable. You've got a hell of a lot more time on your hands than my friend the plastic surgeon, my friends the orthopedic surgeons, or even my respiratory therapist friend. Their families will be lucky if they walk in the door before 8 tonight. Gosh, business must be down. Give it up, my friend.

aaaaaa

cb,

your statement "the whole war on smoking and smokers has more to do with PR and a desperate attempt to isolate a single cause for a wide array of problems" is strange. it doesn't conclude anything - it has more to do with PR...than what? are you implying that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer and other problems? are you a lobbyist or crooked MD for RJ Reynolds? i used to be a big tobacco defense attny. maybe we know each other...

Jen

Perhaps the pulmonologist is a Brit, cruising the internet late at night planning his US vacation.

Anyway, let's just drop the whole medical-excuse tactic and just tell the hotels that's what we WANT. If we vote with our dollars, whether the reason is health or just pure asthetics of not liking the smell of the smoke, voting "with our feet" is what hotels will listen to.

I have actually considered making two or three simultaneous hotel reservations, checking into the first, and then cancelling the others only if the first has a nonsmoking room for me. I figure if cancellation time is 6 PM and I check in at 3 or 4 PM, I have some time to size things up. That way, I can just tell the first hotel to shove it if they don't have a nonsmoking room for me.

cb

aaaaaaa:

You are absolutely right. That phrase didn't really work. It is an idea that is hard to convey without using a VERY long sentence. Let me try again:

The whole war on smoking and smokers has more to do with PR and a desperate attempt to isolate a single cause for a wide array of problems than with a public health problem caused by tobacco alone.

The mind is very powerful, and can create a variety of conditions because you think you react to this or that. For instance: CNN tells you over and over and over that second hand smoke is bad for you. You end up believing it and reacting to it. There is a reason why CNN (and the American media) speak about it so frequently: Anti-smoking groups. They may be small, but they are very loud. If you make a lot of noise, and you claim that the problem is very serious and that you need to work on it, you'll eventually find money coming your way. The louder you are, the more sinister the antagonist is, the more money you make.

Don't you find it at the very least interesting that in other countries (where you don't have such groups, and no reports in the media) smokers and non-smokers can continue to live in peace? And no increase in respiratory diseases, either.

Is it mass hysteria? Yes, I think it is.

AshamedAmerican

America is a nation of entitled cry babies, and should be ashamed. "I DEMAND" this and "I DEMAND" that! WaaWaaa Big frigging deal. We have a nation where we can travel in relative safety. Chances are we won't be blown up on a bus on our way to school or work, or as we walk into a grocery store. We've got it pretty darned good in comparison to most of the world. Instead, we find other things to whine about; we whine about minutia because we don't have the overwhelming worries of day to day survival. Waaa, someone smoked in my room yesterday and I DON'T LIKE IT. Pout, stamp foot.

PS I'm a non smoker, but the worst kind, one who quit 14 years ago after a 2-3 pack/day habit, so holier than all those still addicted, just sick to death of the whiners on this board. Please, just stick your "I DEMANDS" where the sun don't shine, will you?

John

Ashamed American and Irene both make sense. With us having everything so good, it's hard to imagine whining over something this rediculous and to consider going to such lengths as making multiple hotel reservations!! Isn't this a bit beyond the absurd?? All of us may have gotten stuck with a room where a smoker may have stayed, just as smokers have more than likely gotten stuck with a non-smoking room when they requested a smoking room. This is called LIFE. I agree with Irene, "grow-up". These are troll-like threads, yet it's scarey because they probably are for real! John

whatever

how about we give all of you people who don't see what the big deal is a big whack on the head (so you have a pounding headache) and pour pepper in your mouth (so you feel asthamatic), then send you off on your merry way to enjoy your vacation in hawaii, disneyworld, or wherever. see how much you guys enjoy your trip. that's how someone who has a bad reaction to cigarrette smoke/smell/residue feels after spending 8 to 10 hours with the stuff during the night. the only reason why you think these people are whiny is because you have no idea. i'm sure you all whine about some trauma most would find totally inane. but that's only because you're the one experiencing it.

Lenleigh

Although I do not like the smell of smoke either I think what you are asking is unreasonable. Having worked for several hotels(where we had the authority to do many things to make unhappy guests happy) there are two sides to this debate. One: You book a non-smoking room (which is a request based on availability) and you check in on time or early if possible to ensure a better chance of getting a non-smoking room. You cannot show up at 11pm (or even 5pm at some hotels) and expect your non-smelly room awaits. You could encounter a problem with this if there are large groups staying in the hotel that have checked in days prior to your reservation. The other option is to only stay in hotels that are non-smoking hotels which, according to one of my recent Business Traveler mags, is on the rise. The other idea is when you make the reservation, ask what their occupancy rate is to see how likely it will be that you get your room choice. If they are 80 % percent or more you might have a problem but at least you are aware of the chance. Most important, the nicer you are about it will get you much further than screaming at the front desk. Who wants to deal with someone like that?

Suzy

Lenleigh, you have accurately described the current situation, which is exactly the problem that this whole thread is about!

One thing I don't understand -- how will being nice at the front desk help if there are no nonsmoking rooms left?

Different guests have diffferent priorities. I don't care about most of the other amenities that hotels seem to have no problem providing -- hair dryers, ironing boards, faxes, jacuzzis, concierges, etc etc. I just want to come "home" to a room that doesn't reek, and the hotel that can deliver that will get my business!

Stats

There's a basic market-research fact here that no one, including the hotels, seems to be confronting. It's ALWAYS the non-smoking rooms that hotels run out of. Doesn't this tell you, more people WANT non-smoking rooms? Shouldn't there be more non-smoking rooms set aside?

In addition, there's the simple fact that it costs more to clean smoking rooms than non-smoking rooms. Frankly, I'd put all the addicts in one wing, way at the back. They cost the hotel money and guests, why coddle them?

Ida

"Stats", This is Not true....There are many times when smokers request a smoking room and the only rooms left are Non-Smoking. Availability works both ways. When I worked at the Front Desk (up until retiring 6 months ago) the ratio of smoking room/non-smoking rooms requests would vary greatly from week to week. We did our best to accommodate everyone and were usually, but not always, successful. We were usually able to repair the situation by the following day by changing guests to their room of choice. Ida

Ed

Personally I have found that the situation is improving. A few years ago, the chains always stated that getting a non-smoking room was subject to availability. Now, I find that, more often than not, they are prepared to guarantee it.

And why shouldn't they? If I've guaranteed my arrival with a credit card, why can't they set aside the specific room right at that point?

Stats

Ida, I defer to your personal experience -- perhaps it's closer to 50-50 than it has seemed to me when I travel. I've never heard a deskclerk tell a smoker they are out of smoking rooms, but I've been told there were no more non-smoking rooms at least once a year and sometimes more.

But one worries that if there are no "smoking" rooms available and smokers get put in non-smoking rooms, they will go ahead and light up, thus converting the rooms instantly to smoking rooms. I've had a number of places insist to me that I've been put in a "non-smoking" room but there's an ashtray on the table and you can smell the smoke in the curtains. Even if they've washed the rug and the bedding, the smokiness is very hard to get rid of.

(And believe me --allergy or sensitivity or toxicity or whatever it is -- it is not imaginary when I walk into a room where someone has smoked. I may not even smell it, but my sinuses close up, I get a headache, and I start to have trouble breathing.)

Lori

Stats, you better never go to Europe or Asia if you are this sensative to smoke. You'll die...., they smoke everywhere! Many smaller hotels don't offer a choice of smoking or non-smoking rooms (larger chains that cater to Americans do though). The more I've traveled in various continents, the more I've realized that this smoking/non-smoking debate is only played up in America.(media perhaps??) As one posting mentioned, I suppose if you've grown up with smoke around you all your life you probably do become de-sensatized so it doesn't bother you. This is why you don't hear European or Asian non-smokers complain. They're so use to it and it really doesn't bother them. I have relatives who come to visit from Scotland (though they don't stay in a hotel) and they're amused at how divided Americans are amongst the smoker's vs. non-smokers. They've asked "how can smokers and non-smokers get along without problems in Scotland but there's so much desention here?" I really guess, they're just use to it since children and don't give it another thought. Lori

Stats

My mother and father both smoked my entire childhood. I smoked for 3 yrs. myself in my early 20s. Rather than de-sensitizing me, I suspect that it made me -- in the long run -- more sensitive. This sensitivity really began in my 30s and is now, in my 40s, worse.

I've been to Europe and, yes, I have problems, although I've largely been able to find lodging that isn't saturated with smoke-- sometimes specifically listed as non-smoking. Whoever pointed out that buildings with sealed windows are worse is right, too -- many of the European hotels I've stayed in allow one to open the windows, which makes things much better.

Former smoker

This post should have been put to bed a long time ago.

My only comment to the non-smoking Nazi; Why do they call you whinners?

You MUST have something better to do.

Former smoker

MM

Even if you don't have strong opinions on smoking vs. non-smoking (although most people seem to), there is still the issue of getting what you expect from a hotel, and the hotel being honest about it.