Puleeze! "It can't keep it's own people?" There has been a huge influx of population over the last five years due to the boom of the dotcom industry. This is what drove our housing prices through the roof and created gridlock on the roads. It was getting out of hand. People were buying houses two and three hours away from their workplace because it was all they could afford. Now that we've had the dotbomb many of those who moved in are moving out. I don't understand why the housing prices are not creeping down, but there were too many people trying to live here and not enough space. *Thankfully* we are experiencing a drop in population. People can pooh-pooh the bay area all they like. If it's not for you don't move here!

Susan,

SF probably has high prices despite the drop in population for maybe a couple of reasons:

1. Landlords don't want to lower rents substantially, because the rent control board would not let them raise the rents back to equivalent levels in the future.

2. There is such an extreme housing shortage in the Bay Area, with so much pent-up demand, that new tenants seemingly come out of nowhere.

I lived in and around the Bay Area for many years until I moved away... to Dallas, as it happens. And the housing "shortage" was just one of the factors that ran me off.

In reality, the shortage is artificial... there are so many legal and cultural constraints on building anything in SF that it's a wonder anything new gets built at all.

Here in Dallas, they embrace the opportunity to build "urban villages" around rapid transit stations.

SF Bay Area had rapid transit for decades before Dallas did, but the idea of building anything around the stations was horrible, politically incorrect, an abomination, etc.

The Bay Area attitude was: "we don't want no Manhattanization around here".

Of course the various social dysfunctionalities that cripple the Bay Area sociologically make it a quaint destination for visitors.

Except for the sidewalk psychotics, of course. Going wee-wee in public.

To those that have posted good advice, many thanks! We'll be following up on it!

Melissa: We're from NW England, - i.e. Liverpool/Manchester area.

Susan, XYZ, aceplace: Read the title of the thread. Read my first post. Pay attention to it. Follow the instruction on its last line. It's quite clear.

Chris, I did read the title and your first post, and I made some suggestions in the eighth post on this thread. My last post was in defense of the bay area. I agree with you, if one has nothing but negative comments to make there is another thread around here where one can post. Sorry if you thought I was being negative about SF. Quite to the contrary, I heart SF.

When I was in S.F. a year ago I took a 2-hour Victorian Home walking tour. This is a architechural/historical tour and was for me one of the highlights of my stay in S.F. A way to really get a feel for the town and some of its colorful history. The tour leaves from Union Square, but you should be able to find brochures on it at your hotel.

I also agree that you should definitely spend some time across the bay in Sausalito. It's beautiful.

Susan: Sorry, looking back at the posts, I see what you mean! So in your case, what I said I said in my last post doesn't apply to you! You are trying to help!

All right, Chris, I'll say something complimentary about SF... the smells.

I mean it.

The bay has a particular and not unpleasant tang to it... the salt in non-movung water in low temperatures...

Out on Ocean Beach, the waves coming in over the rocks and the kelp has a much different aroma.

Around Ghirardelli Square, I'll never forget the aroma of chocolate in cold air...

But the most fragrant of all... when a cable car goes down a hill and the driver puts on the brakes... the smell of burning wood from friction is simply, absolutely unique.

Chris, one more smell for you...

When you go to Fisherman's wharf, to the place where the vendors have lobster and crab stands on the sidewalk, the aroma of the steam and the seafood is absolutely unique and compelling...

Mmm, sounds good! Actually, that's making me hungry...

Chris - Go with pleasant anticipation to SF knowing that you'll have a great time and will enjoy a truly unique city.
The homeless situation that is so frequently referenced was far less svere than posts here had led me to believe (I just spent a three day wekeend there last month). Yes there are some relatively aggressive panhandlers (verbally aggressive) and at certain times of day in some neighborhoods they may be on almost every corner. It is isolatred to certain areas and by adopting my standard big city practice of completely, totally ignoring them (no eye contact and did not acknowledge their presence) I avoided problems. I was all over downtown SF walking by myself including late at night and had not problmes. It's a city full of history with great views from so many places and the sea air blowing in - this will be a memorable experience for you both. Obvious choice include the Alcatraz tour with audio, a walk across the Golden Gate Bridge and Chinatown. Try out R&G Lounge at the edge of C'towwn near Financial district. My Asian clients suggested it for lunch and it was the best Chinese food I've ever had. be sure to go upstairs as the downstairs is just a barebones lunch spot - upstairs is elegant and relaxed. Visit the Mission District to check out a vibrant Hispanic communitry - there are also some good new restaurants there - I tried Alma ("Nuevo latino soul food" is how they describe themselves) - it was awesome - best meal of the weekend. Chinatown is great fun... check out the cafes in North Beach... go to the half-price ticket booth in Union Square (it's inside the parking garage that is in the middle of a huge construction site but it is open). I took a chance on a one man comic show playign at a tiny theather in a North Beach alley - it was wildly funny. A ferry ride in the bay makes for great views - I spent a few hours in Sausalito and it was way too touristy for me but to each his own. I found people to be friendly and helpful, the atmosphere was laid back, public transport was easy to use and I opnly wis I'd had more time there! By the way... if you find a Torrefazione Italia cafe )there are two in town) be sure to get a bag of their Perugia blend to take home for making espresso. If you're an espresso fan, these beans are the best! (I think they're as good as Illy but are about half the price).

Chris, I think I may "heart" SF more than Sue'spike??? ;-D

In March, we had a room at the F'Wharf Hyatt. I got up early and went to the Wharf/Pier 39 around 6-6:30 to get some good photos...camera bought the farm!
But, seeing them cranking it all up was well worth it! Reminds me of walking thru the FrQuarter in New Orleans around 7a.m. on the way to Cafe Dumonde. Special kind of feeling seeing a city waken in the morning. We have walked down the Embarcadero from F'Wharf to the Ferry Building at sunrise and it is still awesome everytime we see it. Even tho Oakland gets in the way! (I'm a Steeler fan-Apologies to Oak).

Agree w/ Owen about the homeless prob. We went again around 2 weekends ago and had more problems with some rude tourists than we did with any panhandling street people.
Could I go for a walkaway right now!
Kal

topping for Chris

San Francisco is nothing but an overrated city trying to portray itself as one of the best places in the world. Far from it. SF likes to call itself "the city" Ha ha, that is the joke of the century. The first time I heard that I thought someone was referring to New York City, which as far as I'm concerned is the only place in the world worthy of being called "The City". SF can call itself what it wants, but what it boils down to is a less than second rate city, with overpriced restaurants, an enormous agressive homeless population, a less than second rate arts scence which, and cold weather in the summer. Give me NYC any day of the week.

abc: read the last line of the first post. Take heed. Obey.

Chris,

I think this about sums up SF's problem.

San Francisco is spending more than $200 million a year, about the same as it spends for its fire department, on the homeless but is barely making a dent in the problem, the San Francisco Chronicle reports. There are still thousands living on the streets there, hassling passersby, openly abusing drugs and urinating and defecating in public. New York, meanwhile, has nearly eliminated its homelessness problems. What does New York know that San Francisco doesn't? New York invested in homeless shelters ? it has 27,000 beds now ? and used police and social workers to make it difficult to sleep in public. San Francisco officials viewed that approach as "warehousing the poor" and spent their money on long-term housing and services for a portion of the homeless. Problem is, they are serving the most quiescent homeless people. The more difficult ones, with mental illnesses or drug problems, are left on the street, and those are the ones causing trouble. "You walk down Market Street and step over comatose bodies, debris and human waste. It's just not a pleasant experience," said one businessman, who said he no longer visits the city for entertainment.

http://www.civic-strategies.com/resources/metros/san_francisco.htm

xxx(if that's your real name ;-)), as Chris and others have stated, there is another thread on this board where you can post your negative impressions of San Francisco. In fact, I think you've already spent substantial time there and still feel the need to vent.

However, I believe Chris, like millions of others this year, is still planning on visiting San Francisco. I agree there is a substantial homeless problem but there are also many wonderful things about SF that recommend it as a tourist destination. Those positive things are what this thread is about. Read the last sentence in Chris's first post, please!

aceplace, really can you in all honesty compare San Francisco with Dallas and come up favorably? That really says a lot about your taste in a city. If you don't like San Francisco, stay away. We're very honest in telling you the positives and the negatives. But, don't ever tell us that we have to change to become like NYC or Dallas!! No way. Never, Jose.

SF has got to be the only city in America that forced Government housing projects in nice neighborhoods, rolls out the red carpet for the homeless and generally prefers to populate its city with the scum, freak degenerates of the world rather than decent hard working families. Take a stroll down the trash strewn streets of the Haight or Tenderloin. Liberal politics at their best. What a joke.

Hey, some of you freaks are on the wrong board! Crawl on over to the "Hated" thread, I'm sure you'll be much happier there among your own kind.

Lynn,

I don't hate San Francisco. But I do feel that we should be telling the truth about SF and not misleading tourists.