scraphappy

Hi everyone!

I posted a number of months ago and I've since tweaked our itinerary a bit and would like advice as to whether this is trying to cram too much in with too much driving.

Our group is three families with kids ranging from 4 to 16. They are all wonderful travelers and are good in the car. We are interested in light hiking, photography, rafting, four wheeling, and general sight seeing. We won't always be staying together because of the varied ages of the kids. We will traveling in the beginning of August (I'm a bit worried about the heat! But we're Marylanders and are used to high humidity so I hope the dry heat will be easier for us.)

Here is what I have so far:

Day 1: Drive from Las Vegas airport to Zion. Explore Zion. Reservations at the Desert Pearl.

Day 2: Hike the Narrows and explore Zion. Another night at Desert Pearl.

Day 3: Drive early to Bryce and spend the entire day in Bryce. The evening we will drive to Escalante to stay in the brand new Slot Canyon Inn. Drive scenic Highway 12 to Capitol Reef and explore a bit (mostly from car), arriving that night in Moab. Stay at the Gonzo Inn.

Days 4 & 5 Stay in Moab, exploring both Arches and Canyonlands. Rafting trip, rock climbing, four wheeling, etc... Staying at the Gonzo Inn a total of three nights.

Day 6: Leave for Durango, stopping for the day in Mesa Verde. Stay in Durango at the Jarvis Suites Hotel.

Day 7: Durango - Silverton Railroad trip. Lunch in Silverton. Back in Durango in the evening to relax.

Day 8: Biggest driving day, Durango all the way to Grand Canyon Village, stopping mid day at Monument Valley to explore. Reservations at The Thunderbird Lodge.

Day 9: Explore Grand Canyon (from the rim!) Another night at The Thunderbird Lodge.

Day 10: Leisurly drive to Page taking in more Grand Canyon sights. Spend evening in Page (no reservation yet)

Day 11: We get onto a houseboat to explore Lake Powell for the next four nights/five days. (This is the part of the trip that my husband is insisting on - and we are the only family doing it - the other two families will be flying home to Mayland.)

Day 15: Drive from Page to Las Vegas. Spend night in Vegas.

Day 16: Fly home from Vegas.

I am desperate to get over to Colorado. I love Mesa Verde, and I really want my kids to see Colorado. I know they would love the train from Durango to Silverton. But am I just going to make us all miserable by trying to do too much? I've been to both Zion and Bryce and much prefer Zion which is why we're giving it more time than Bryce. I would appreciate any feedback anyone has to offer. I've tried to map quest all of the driving times so that I will have a realistic time table. I also feel that the driving isn't as burdensome when you are in such lovely country. Here on the east coast, driving up and down Interstate 95 is boring!

Another question - we have some scaredy cats in the group who are frightened of Highway 12. None of us have ever driven it before. I don't want to miss the views, but I don't want others in our party to be miserable. What do you think?

I know this is a long post, thanks for sticking with me! I will return the favor by posting a long trip report when I return in August!

Dayle

Hi Scraphappy,

I really think you are still trying to do too much. I think you should skip Mesa Verde and Silverton this time around and save it for another CO trip in the future.

2 days in Moab will not give you enough time to see the parks, plus do a rafting trip, rock climbing, and off roading. Arches is a minimum of a full day, so is Canyonlands and Dead Horse Point combo. Add those CO days to Moab!

Also, I did a houseboat vacation of 4 days years ago. My experience was that although it was nice, I would NOT do it again without a ski boat/jet skis, etc. The houseboast is SLOW and you cannot cover much territory or see all that much just using the houseboat. Plus they suck so much gas, that you can only go so far away from the marina before you have to go back for more gas! $$$$$$

TheWeasel

"Day 3: Drive early to Bryce and spend the entire day in Bryce. The evening we will drive to Escalante to stay in the brand new Slot Canyon Inn. Drive scenic Highway 12 to Capitol Reef and explore a bit (mostly from car), arriving that night in Moab. Stay at the Gonzo Inn."

Am I misreading this? It looks like you're 1) staying in Escalante the 3rd night, but 2) also driving to Moab and staying at Gonzo the 3rd night. You say you're at Gonzo 3 nights total (including day 4 & 5). Where are you the 3rd night?

utahtea

Either you are missing a day in your schedule or you have double booked the night for Escalante and the first night at Moab, see Day 3.

I agree with Dayle that you are trying to do way to much in the time you have. If you don't have 3 nights in Moab, then there is no way you are going to fit in rafting, 4 wheeling and seeing the major parks in the area. You really need 4 or more nights for Moab.

Mesa Verde really deserves more than just a drive by.

As for scenic hwy 12 pictures will go a long way!

http://www.so-utah.com/hwy12/hogsback/hogsair.jpg

http://www.so-utah.com/hwy12/hogsback/sign.jpg

http://www.so-utah.com/hwy12/slickrck.jpg

http://www.so-utah.com/hwy12/homepage.html

Utahtea

Utahtea

dockruins

Highway 12 in Utah is not that scary from the car. I didn't notice how skinny the ridge we were driving on was until we stopped at the little viewpoint at the top.

If you want something to make people face their fear of heights, hike the Angel's Landing trail in Zion.

scraphappy

Hi Guys!

Thanks so much for your replies. Sorry for the screw-up and confusion! Days 3 and 4 should read as follows: Day 3 should be: drive to Bryce and spend the day exploring, then drive one hour to Escalante for the night.

Day 4: Drive from Escalante along Rt. 12 to Moab. We will be in Moab for a total of three nights, two days. The rest of the intinerary should be correct.

Now that being said, I have two alternative itineraries for you to look at. Both of these itineraries add one more night to Moab. I will try to keep it simple and accurate.

Alternate Itinerary I

Days 1 & 2: Zion

Day 3: Bryce

Day 4,5,6,7: Moab

Day 8 & 9: Durango

Day 10 & 11: Grand Canyon

Day 12: Page

Days 13,14,15,16: Lake Powell (and yes, we've rented a speed boat along with our houseboat so we can explore!)

Day 17: Las Vegas


Alternate Itinerary II:

Days 1 & 2: Zion

Day 3: Bryce

Days 4,5,6&7: Moab

Days 8 & 9: Grand Canyon

Days 10: Page

Days 11, 12, 13, 14: Houseboat

Day 15: Las Vegas

I'm trying to hang onto Colorado in the itinerary so I prefer the first alternate itinerary, but will heed your wise advice if we need to drop Colorado. We are flexible with the length of our trip. We don't want to feel rushed or exhausted but at the same time, we will probably not return to this area of the country so we want to see as much as possible. I have been to all of these places before (when I was younger) except Moab and Lake Powell. Now we want to show them to our children.

Do you think I should stick with the shorter itinerary and forego Colorado? It's obvious that the first ininerary that I posted will not work.

Thanks for all of your help. I respect your opinions and will heed your advice!

utahtea

Your "Alternate Itinerary I" doesn't look that bad with 3 full days in Moab. You can easily combine 4 wheel driving and a trip to Canyonlands and Dead Horse State park in one day by taking the Potash Road (Hwy 279) which turns into a 4 wheel drive road, take a short detour on the White Rim trail to Musselman Arch and then go back and take the Shafer trail up into Canyonlands National Park. Stop at Dead Horse State park and then take Long Canyon 4 wheel drive road back to the Potash Road. You can rent jeep Wranglers in Moab. We've used Farabee's jeeps twice and the employees are very helpful in helping you plan your trips.

Our picture: http://www.utahtea.lithium.com/pages...shafer2001.htm


Utahtea

scraphappy

Utahtea, thanks for the help. I have had your website marked for months and have looked at your photos many times - I love them all! I am thinking that we are all too nervous to rent the Jeep's ourselves. None of us are really "four wheelers" but we always enjoy guided Jeep tours when we travel.

How long do you think it will take us to get all the way from Bryce to Moab, taking in the sights of Highway 12. I have emailed the Highway 12 pictures to my travelmates and given them the comforting words from dockruins. I know that will be a long day of driving. Also, how long do you think it will take us to go from Durango to the South Rim, taking in Monument Valley? I've mapquested it, but I'm not sure how much to allow for stopping to see the sights.

Dayle, do you have an opinion about my latest two alternate itineraries?

Again, to all of you who post regularly, there are so many of us who read all of your posts and have gathered so much information from you, I thank you!!

sharondi

Scraphappy,
You might want to skip Durango this time around and stick to itinerary#2. Although I can't figure out why you're going to the GC before Lake Powell. Seems like some backtracking to me. We like leaving some extra time in our Utah itinerary to explore areas that we find along the way. Skip Colorado for now and leave some time for exploring. You will be back to this area at some point. Either way you'll have a blast!

ellen_griswold

Hi Scraphappy!
You've gotten some excellent advice so far but wanted to add my .02.
Your itinerary looks great (2nd one) but i would rethink the Lake Powell days. While its a beautiful area, once you've seen it, you may want to continue on -- or go back to the other incredible areas you'll be exploring. Any chance your DH would agree to just two days there?

Also, Utahtea's advice about Long Canyon road from Dead Horse Park is excellent (as is all her advice!) We had our first true off-roading experience in our own SUV when we 'stumbled' upon it last summer. We were on our 27 day out-west road trip, and it was the highlight of the 3.5 weeks, and possibly of all 9 summers of out west adventures. Click on my name for my trip report with many details of Long Canyon (plus "Karens", another family who also experienced it!) And really, if we can all do it, you can do it.

scraphappy

Thanks Sharondi. I'm going to take all of these posts and gather with my travelmates to discuss it. I have a feeling that Durango will just have to be cut.

To answer why we're going to GC before Page, the entire group is going to the GC and also on the rest of the "land" portion of our trip. But only my family and my parents are going on the houseboat. So we will enjoy the Grand Canyon with our group and then head off to Page by ourselves.

scraphappy

Hi ellen - love the screen name - The "Vacation" movies are a favorite at my house!

You posted while I was writing my other reply. I, too, am worried about too much time at Lake Powell. Can I tell you that this entire trip is happening only because my husband wanted to go on a houseboat vacation on Lake Powell. That is the only thing he wanted to do. I, on the other hand, could see that we would be so close to such beautiful national parks that we really had to add an entire land portion to our trip.

I have been to this part of the country a couple of times when I was younger. My parents took us all over the United States many times when we were growing up. And since researching and reading so much on this forum, I realize that not as many people do the houseboat thing, but many enjoy varied itineraries across the four corners area.

So now I'm ready to ditch the houseboat portion of our trip but dh keeps reminding me that the houseboat is the only reason we're really making this trip! We're going for four nights and it is costing a bloody fortune. My father is calling it the "gold boat." By the time you pay for the power boat and the houseboat and the gas, you have no money left in your wallet! At any rate, dh is humoring me with the whole land portion of this trip. I am continuing to try to get him to agree to less nights on the lake. We'll see if I can make any headway!

That's all probably more information than anyone needed to know - lol! Can you tell that I talk a lot?

Concerning Potash Road and Long Canyon road, do you really think we can do it ourselves with all of the kids? I'm afraid of getting lost in the middle of Canyonlands! I was thinking about taking one of the Hummer tours with Moab Adventure Center but I will listen to you and Utahtea if you think we should alter those plans and just rent the Jeeps ourselves. It does sound incredible and I loved those pictures of Utahtea's trip.

I'm going to go now and read your trip report. Thanks again for all of the great advice - I'll keep working on dh!

ellen_griswold

Oh Scraphappy, i totally understand the DH / houseboat issue. To get dh 'clark' on our first road trip west, i bribed him with attending major league baseball games. And they turned out to be a delightful part of our trips west. There's nothing like freezing in old Candlestick Park on July 4th - or seeing our team beat a competitor on the road (the Mariners!)Treasured family memories.

So whatever it takes to get your DH there will undoubedly just whet his appetite for additional trips west ~ which is what happened to us and most likely everyone else. And the Glen Canyon Rec area is beautiful, the houseboat will be fun.

About Long Canyon Road ~ you really can't get lost, although i DID wonder what we'd do if someone was coming from the other direction!? And according to the experts, it's not even rated as a difficult off-roading trail. For us, it was more that we were surprised to BE off roading, more than that it was that difficult to drive.

However, its not an easy road in which to 'caravan', with one vehicle following the next, since all 3 of your families obviously won't fit into one vehicle. If you decide to do it, take an organized tour. However, as i mentioned in my trip report, upon asking at the Hummer tour office (can't recall the name - across from the Moab Ramada) we were told they no longer do it due to the damage on the undercarriage! I'm sure there are other outfitters offering it, among many other trails and trips.

Hope that helps. Let us know what you decide!

utahtea

From Bryce to Moab via Hwy 12 is 270 miles. Driving time is about 7 hours, but plan on it taking ALL day. I know it can be done, my son and his wife did it once. They drove the scenic drive into Capitol Reef too, but there wasn't much time for exploring...then again, they are not early risers. If you get an early start in the day there will be many places to stop and enjoy the views and stretch the legs.

Durango to Grand Canyon is 370 miles and will take almost 8 hours. If you left Durango early enough you could spend an hour in Monument Valley near lunch time.

utahtea

From Bryce to Moab via Hwy 12 is 270 miles. Driving time is about 7 hours, but plan on it taking ALL day. I know it can be done, my son and his wife did it once. They drove the scenic drive into Capitol Reef too, but there wasn't much time for exploring...then again, they are not early risers. If you get an early start in the day there will be many places to stop and enjoy the views and stretch the legs.

Durango to Grand Canyon is 370 miles and will take almost 8 hours. If you left Durango early enough you could spend an hour in Monument Valley just before noon and still make the Grand Canyon. It will be a long day.

As ellen mentioned the Shafer Trail is not even a rated 4 wheel drive road. It's more of a gravel road with some places that need high clearance. Infact, the first time we did the Shafer trail we did it in a Ford Club Wagon going down the trail. The ranger said we would be fine, but we would need 4 wheel drive if we were going up the trail. If you saw my pictures then you know there are a lot of switchbacks on the Shafer trail. That first time, it wasn't well maked, but that was years ago and it's a lot easier to find your way back there now. The do have signs and even an outhouse.

If you're not comfortable driving yourselves, then maybe a guided tour would be better.

I would love to do a houseboat tour on Lake Powell! I am so JEALOUS! I think you will really enjoy yourselves and it will be a time to relax a little.

scraphappy

Thanks ellen and utahtea. We will get on the Shafer Trail somehow! And I'm now more encouraged about the houseboat. I should be looking at this as an incredible adventure - on land and water!!

Ellen, I'm still in the middle of your trip report - wow what a gift of humor and story telling you have. I'm sure my trip report won't be as good but I will be sure to post how everything went when we get back. Your long trips out west remind me of the ones we took when I was growing up. I yearn to be back at all of those places! Last summer we did California as a family. Yosemite was the highlight - I had never been before.

Now we have another big adventure to look forward to. Utahtea, you have given me something to really think about. Those are two long days of driving (I knew this already but I was underestimating the time by an hour or two on each trip.) If I cut out Durango, we can add a night in Torrey to break up the Bryce to Moab trip. That way we could spend more time in Capitol Reef. There is just so much to see and so little time!

Thanks again for the good advice. I'm sure I will have more questions and will let you know our final itinerary.

utahtea

It's so hard to know what kind of travelers people are. Do they like to move around a lot or stay put and explore more.

Capitol Reef is worth some time. If you are spending the night in Torrey, that will also give you more time to explore scenic hwy 12. I like driving the paved part of the Burr Trail out of Boulder, Utah.

If you do cut out Durango, you might consider a side trip to Hovenweep National Monument if you want to see some Indian Ruins. I know all the maps show that Hoveenweep road is not paved, but they are to the Utah section.

Utahtea

Dayle

Scraphappy,

That is a much better plan! I'm glad you thought to rent a ski boat for Powell, you'll be so glad you did.

Have fun and don't forget the sunscreen!

sharondi

scraphappy,
Here is a link to pictures from our 2004 trip to Utah. There are some pretty good shots including some along the Burr Trail and Long Canyon. Thought they'd get you excited about your upcoming trip.

http://www.pbase.com/peterb/utah04

ellen_griswold

Hi scraphappy, you are too kind about my trip report, thank you! I just now see that i didn't finish it; my bad. I'll look forward to reading yours also as your trip will be wonderful!

I agree about durango vs. route 12, at least for this trip. Route 12 is a destination in itself.

Hi Utahtea! aren't we talking about different off-roading trails? We did Long Canyon Trail (Puckers Pass) out of Dead Horse State Park. I thought Shafer Trail ran through Canyonlands NP?

Scraphappy, the best site i can find of the Long Canyon Trail is here:

http://www.discovermoab.com/pdf/tpmap.pdf

You'll see it at the top right of the graphic, coming from the east of Dead Horse State Park.

Sharondi, love your pics of Long Canyon / Puckers Pass. We have similar pics of our SUV under the Pass ~ somehow, someday, i will get ours on line.