kittys69

Hi there,

We're planning a trip starting at Denver, going as far as Vegas, and travelling a loop back via various NP's and landmarks. We're in need of feedback on how practical the itinery is, any suggestions for our gap in itinery, and anybody that would like to give advice and/ or meet up and do some hiking and camping with beginners in canyon walking, would be very much appreciated! If you'd be interested See our itinery below- we're doing it on a seriously small budget!:

June 26th (this year): Fly into Denver, spend night at hostel.
June 27th: Denver to Grand Junction and look around, stay over at hostel?
June 28th: Grand Junction- Bryce Canyon, stay overnight camping
June 29th: Day at Bryce canyon, Hiking and stay over camping (campsite or wild camping? Bear in mind we are inexperienced at moment in wild camping)
June 30th: Travel from Bryce to Zion, spend night campsite
July 1st: Leave Zion to Vegas, show at Vegas, stop over at hotel?or hostel
July 2nd: Leave Vegas to Grand Canyon (north rim), stop over at north rim campsite/ if anybody wants to meet up the following day, a place we'd love to see is Havasupai Falls, but we're a little too underconfident to camp out under the starsdue to reading about how dangerous it is in the canyons if you're inexperienced.
July 3rd: Day out hiking the grand canyon, stop overnight camping (either under the stars or at campsite).
July 4th: Leave Grand Canyon- Monument Valley, camp overnight
July 5th: Monument valley to Arches, stop over
July 6th: Arches?
July 7th: ?
July 8th?
July 9th: Arrive back at Denver.
July 10th: Fly home

Could anybody suggest anywhere on our route we've missed that would be worth a visit? Is south rim too touristy as we get the impression it could be?

Are there any places on our route that we could see, and join in, Independence day celebrations?

We'd also have liked to go to Yosemite- are we right in thinking this would be too far out?

Are the peaks south of Denver worth including?

spirobulldog

You are trying to see way to much and cover way to much in my opinion. Have you done camping in this way before? Setting up a tent and taking it down, packing everything up from camp and starting again. Whoa, just that many setups would be pretty miserable for most folks.

Also realize, that you are planning on being in a lot of heat for 2 weeks solid. This is desert, you can pretty much be assured of temps around 100 in most of the places you mention. Bryce might be the exception.

Stop and experience these places, especially since you are camping. Wildcamping is not much different than campsites in national parks, because the campsites don't have hookups anyway. The only big difference is that there is no bathrooms and water.

You can't get to Havasu Falls from the North Rim. The drive would take pretty much an entire day. To do Havasu really requires 3 or 4 days. 1 day to hike in, 1 or 2 days at the falls, and another day to hike out.

Also realize that most of these places might be full when you get there, so once you get setup in a place you will want to stay there a few days.

In Zion, Bryce, Moab a person could easily spend 3-5 days in each of those. You might take a look at Capitol Reef, Goblin Valley, and Deadhorse point for campsites. The state parks have reservations and some of the national parks do as well.


Since you mention Yosemite, to me it makes much more sense to do it in July than the Desert. You could easily spend a week there, you might want to see Sequoia and Kings Canyon and spend a week there.

And yes, Yosemite is a long way from Denver.

emalloy

If you cut over to New Mexico, Bandelier NP would be a great place to hike and as it is in the mountains, should be a bit cooler for hiking. Then head back to Denver. The Moab parks are fantastic, but will be very hot in July, so any hiking would need to be done very early in the morning.

boom_boom

Sounds like a trip I took when I was a teenager, two weeks from CA to Glacier, Yellowstone, Tetons, Rocky Mountain Nt. Park Grand Canyon and back to CA in two weeks, a different campground every night.
I tried to do way to much and as a result I "saw" those places, but I never "experienced" any of them.
As spirobulldog notes, you are almost ensured of hot weather in all your stops. Even the north rim gets pretty hot in mid day.
Consider Mesa Vede, Durango, Telleuride and the Rockies rather than so many desert stops.

kittys69

Thanks to you both for these suggestions- we really appreciate it!!

We've looked into Moab- wow! We'll definitely be stopping there for a few days doing some of the water, bike and hummer activities.

We're hardened campers, so don't mind the putting the tent up and down issue. We'll probably do some hostelling also when we're in need of a comfy mattress.

Do you think we'd have the time to cut over to Bandelier?

thanks again, K

Keep the suggestions coming!!

emalloy

Bandelier would be a hike from Moab, probably 9 or 10 hours drive. It is however a fascinating place to visit, ancient housing, carved into the mountainside (actually hardened volcanic ash) and has a second area caled Tsankawi that is unexcavated but has a neat trail up to some ancient ruins. If you find it just too hot in southern UT I would expect it to be more moderate there. I have a couple of pictures of it at www.flickr.com/photos/emalloy2009/sets If you care to look.

ElendilPickle

emalloy has given you a good suggestion.

Since it doesn't sound like you really want to do much in Colorado, instead of flying into Denver, you could fly into Albuquerque, head up to Bandelier, then over to Mesa Verde NP in southwestern CO. From there it's about three hours to Arches.

As others have said, it will be really hot just about everywhere you're headed, so do be sure to drink lots of water, wear a hat, use lots of sunscreen, etc.

Lee Ann

utahtea

You could cut 650 miles off your trip if you flew in and out of Las Vegas and concentrated your time at the parks you mentioned and then you would also have time for Capitol Reef and Scenic Highway 12.

Las Vegas, N. Rim, Monument Valley, Moab (Arches & Canyonlands), Capitol Reef, Scenic Hwy 12, Bryce and Zion National Parks and then back to Vegas. Don't try to do to many other things in such a short time.

Bandelier is ok, but there are many other ruin sites much better and closer like Mesa Verde.

With all that said, the 4th of July weekend starting July 2 though the 5th is going to be BUSY no matter where you are and the chances of runing into traffic is very likely. Leaving the North Rim might take you a lot longer than you think. RV drive very slowly on that route.

I'm not sure what you mean by under the stars camping. If you are going into the back country of the national parks, you are more than likely going to need a permit. If you want to camp in the national parks campgrounds, you are going to have to make reservations for many of the parks especially during this time of the year unless you can get to the park well before noon. I believe the campground at N. Rim is by reservation only.

Utahtea

kittys69

That's a good central location for us- I looked at your photo's and Albuquerque looks beautiful. The problem we're having is that Denver was chosen due to the low flight costs and our low budget is responsible for it! I'm beginning to think that a second trip is in order as New Mexico, Mesa Verde area looks beautiful!

Think due to the suggestions that you all seem unananimous on that we've got too many desert locations, we're going to take out Zion. Bryce seems a very different landscape from the G.C North Rim, although the temps are from what you've said going to be similar, so we just couldn't remove it. Also we need to stop between Grand Junction and Vegas otherwise the drive is too long. We're going to take Spirobulldog and boom_boom's advice on staying longer at places so that we experience them more and looking at Goblin Valley think we'll stop here overnight, so we don't just scout it over too quickly. Moab will be one of these- think from what you've said, the water will be refreshing after the desert!!

We tried to fit in cooler places in New Mexico, but due to our two week time limit, we can't find the time- hence the second trip.

What do you all think to the new draft of the itinery?

kittys69

Hi all,

THANKS AGAIN! for all of your input- we've got an itinery sorted now and we're really looking forward to the trip!

K

WhereAreWe

I would suggest pricing out car rentals for Denver and Las Vegas, plus figure out how much you'd spend on gas using either airport and making a loop. Utahtea had a good suggestion and you may find the cheap airfare to Denver isn't so cheap when you factor in car rental and gas. Quick check on Travelocity shows a compact car for ~$650 from Denver, and under $400 from Las Vegas for those dates. Add in the gas for 650 miles and you're looking at saving up to $300 or more on the car portion by flying into Vegas instead.

I wouldn't classify Zion as a desert location, certainly not down in the main canyon section at least.

Not sure either what you mean by wild camping and or camping under the stars. I'm guessing you mean something other than the campgrounds, in which case you'd need a permit and a way to carry your stuff to the backcountry campsite. If you don't have decent backpacking gear it would be miserable to do, typical camping gear is too heavy to carry for very far. Bryce Canyon does have a backcountry site within a mile of parking, so you could make multiple trips back and forth if needed, not sure if you'd want to do that.

You should also check out BLM (Bureau of Land Management) land and National Forest camping options. Cheaper than national parks campgrounds (in some cases free) and usually not as crowded, but certainly not as convenient if the national parks are what you're after. There is something called at-large (or dispersed) camping in Kaibab National Forest (right outside Grand canyon) which only requires you to be 1/4 mile off the road if I remember correctly. You'd have to check with them on current rules/regulations and cost.

utahtea

Cut out Zion...oh...my heart dropped!

Goblin is nice for about an hour or two tops. We camped and spent the night there once, which was nice but that's only because we have been to all the other Utah National Parks dozens of times. I'd really recommend camping at Capitol Reef instead. It's like a little oasis in the desert and much better scenery by far.

You talk about the water being refreshing after the desert. The Colorado River in Moab is not a place to swim or play in the water. The locals know and don't swim in it. There are dangerous undercurrents and the locals say only the tourist drown, because the locals know better. Besides the water is brown from the sandstone it carries and really doesn't smell good. There are some locations that are ok. It is fun to do a half day rafting trip and back when we did it they let you get in the water in the calm sections WITH A LIFE JACKET on! They also have water fights between the rafts...that's a lot of fun. They also have kayacking...but I really would suggest playing or swimming in the Colorado River. There is a lake up in the La Sal Mountains, but it a long drive to get there. Now, Zion on the other hand, the Virgin River runs right though both the campgrounds and unless they've had a recent flash flood from a bad storm, the water is clear and fun to float and play in...not really deep enough to swim in.

Utahtea

utahtea

Fodors really needs to add a post editer! Make that: "I really would suggest NOT playing or swimming in the Colorado River"

Utahtea

kittys69

That's a brilliant point about the car and gas. We're basically stuck with the flights now as it's a massive cancellation fee, but I'm assuming that we could hire a car in Denver, drop it off in vegas, then do the same the opposite way around? Tell me if i'm wrong though.

Utahtea, don't worry about the swimming and playing in the river's currents- I just meant when we get wet during the rafting adventures we've booked on

K

WhereAreWe

Haven't looked at that as an option but I'm 99% certain the one-way drop off fees for 2 separate car rentals would be really expensive. Best off sticking with a roundtrip rental. You can check into renting a car in Denver at an off-airport location as they are usually cheaper, relatively easy to take a cab or shuttle to some of the downtown Denver locations.

kittys69

Definitely cheaper! from what we found it was nearly double from an airport location- They obviously do the same as the UK!!

By way if anybody needs any advice on UK, don't hesitate to get in touch.

K

Melinda2360

Don't miss Rocky Mountain National Park and Colorado's largest natural lake, Grand Lake, located at the Park's west entrance. Enjoy hiking trails and wildlife. We always stay lakeside in the Village of Grand Lake where we can enjoy all the activities we love -- kayaking, hiking, wildlife and nature.

kittys69

Melinda2360,

Unfortunately we havn't got the time to see Rocky Mountain NP-will checkout Colarado lake though on way back.

Thanks all for your input.

K

Dayle

kitty,

You need to be aware that you can ONLY camp in the campgrounds inside the Natl Parks, or have a backcountry permit and backpacking equipment. All will require advance planning!

If you are not experienced backpackers/desert climate people, I don't think you should start on this trip. Campground reservations will be needed throughout your itinerary.

You can camp anywhere if you are on BLM land. National Forest campgrounds are usually nice, but more primitive than the Natl Parks. Pit toilets, no showers.

Moab has a few commercial campgrounds with showers.

Most of your list really deserves a few days in each place. Goblin Valley is NOT one of them. Amazing, but good just for a short stop.

You can spend a week just in Moab, there is so much to see and do!

Like most Europeans, you are grossly underestimating the driving times and distances. You should really cut your number of destinations by a minimum of half.

kittys69

Dayle,

We've decidec to stick to the campgrounds in the NP's instead. As it happens we had problems booking Goblin Valley campgrounds, so we decided to spend more time in Bryce instead. We've also booked in for a few days in Moab- looks great!!

Itinery much smaller now- thanks for the advice.

K