mvan

Thanks again! So...if we decide NOT to go all the way down to Phantom Ranch, but instead stay 3 nights at a lodge at the Rim so we could have 2 days of hiking in the Canyon (just not all the way to the bottom): what would you suggest as best hikes to do on Day 1 and Day 2, that would not be as grueling as the hike to the bottom & back, but still show us some great views/areas of the GC?

emalloy

I would start with the rim trail at least from Bright Angel Lodge to Hermit's rest. Then Bright Angel trail then Kaibab.


Rim trail is pretty flat at ~ 5000 ft and has a bus that parallels it, so if you don't feel like hiking back you can hop on the bus at any of the stops along the way.

Do as much of each of the others as you are comfortable with, with the caveat that coming up usually takes significantly longer than going down.

Have a fantastic trip.

mvan

One more question: On the part of our Loop trip when we are driving back to Phoenix from Santa Fe, we will stop in Albuquerque also. To get back to Phoenix we can take interstate 40. But is there any reason we should instead take a smaller road like route 60 from Socorro, NM (and go through Pie Town, NM, Show Low AZ)? Is it more scenic?

DebitNM

It is a long enough ride from ABQ to PHX via I40 [seven hours + or - ].

I personally don't think driving through Pie Town or Socorro is worthwhile.

If you wanted to see a nice stretch, take I 40 west to Holbrook. You can then head south towards Payson and see some nice views or you can head to Show Low to drive along the Salt River.

Be aware that this will add time onto the trip. Sometimes, by then end of a trip - we just want to get to final destination.

mvan

If we could get a good deal on a one-way car rental from Phoenix to Albuquerque, we might just fly out of Albuquerque (fly into Phoenix, rent car, return in ABQ and fly from there) But sometimes the 1-way rentals are a lot more $$ so we will have to see.

spirobulldog

If it were me, I would spend 1 full day at the Grand Canyon and 1 night. Since you are going to Moab, consider putting the 2 days in Zion. Hike Angels Landing while here(still mighty tough and hot, especially for a 10 year old. Hike The Narrows. This is in water and is shaded, so can be done when it is hot. Many websites list both of these hikes as Top Ten day hikes in the US. Two of the best that I have been on.

If you skipped the South Rim and went straight to the North Rim, this would put you fairly close to Zion and it would be cooler in the North anyway.

Not sure I could spend a full 3 days at GC unless I was hiking down to Phantom. If you do hike down to Phantom, I would spend 2 nights there. This way you could rest some one the 2nd day and do the hikes that are from Phantom.

mvan

I was starting to think about an idea similar to what you suggest, spirobulldog. Thanks!! Maybe our itinerary would be this:

fly into Phoenix, stay with relatives 2 nights
THEN
-2 nights in GC- so would have 1 full day at least to hike , but not down to Phantom Ranch
-3 nights Zion (so as to get 2 full days? would that be good? so we could do Bryce also? Where is best economic place to stay near Zion (uder $100/nt)
-2 nights Moab (Arches & Canyonlands)
-1 night near Mesa Verde
-1 night Durango, then drive to Santa Fe via Taos
-3 nights Santa Fe (resting up a bit & hiking nearby)
-possibly 1 night Albuquerque & fly out of ABQ or we might have to drive back to Phoenix- depending on what kind of proce we get on a one-way car rental.
We could try to get to Bandelier and other sights that might be along our route.

historytraveler

If you deicde to drive, DebitNM's suggestion of heading to Phoenix via Payson and Holbrook is excellent. Much more scenic and I'm not totally convinced that it's any more time consuming than taking I 40.

spirobulldog

mvan,
I like the sound of your latest Iten. better. Do allow for a full day at Mesa Verde. I would do as much there as you could, maybe not worrying about Bandelier. I haven't been to Bandelier, but my parents thought Mesa Verde was better.


I would suggest staying at the Zion Lodge, which is "in park". It is a little pricey, but not any more than Phantom.

At least you have time to think it over. Decide what hiking you plan to do at each location and that will determine how much time you need at each spot. For instance, in Mesa Verde, which houses do you want to see. There is a good hiking trail there(petroglyph trail), but I probably more spectacular at other places. There is also an entire other section called Wetherill. This would take another day to see it. All the houses are different and really worth doing. What all hikes do you plan to do in Moab? Zion?


See what you think about this:

Grand Canyon- I'm not sure whether to tell you to see this from the North or South, It would be interesting to see what others think about seeing it from the North for the first time. Might depend on what kind of hikes you want to do.

Zion- Hike Angels Landing(Strenuous 5-7 hours), hike The Narrows(moderate, in water, 3-7 hours), eat lunch under the big tree in front of the lodge(everyone else does and it is good people watching)

Bryce-Hike Navjo Loop/Queens Garden(2-4hours moderate), Sunrise is considered a must do by a lot of people that visit Bryce, do the Ranger-Led Night Program (usually held 2 times per week)

Drive Hwy 12(one of the best in US) to Capitol Reef, stopping for a hike at Calf Creek Falls(4-6 hours moderate, no shade, but big waterfall to cool you down and swim in), pick fruit and see Orchard at Capitol Reef, also buy pie at the Gifford House there and eat your pie in the picnic area(deer are almost always there)They are out of pie by noon most of the time- they open at 8.

See Goblin Valley and Little Wildhorse Canyon. Probably allow 2 hours at Goblins and 3-4 hours hiking Little Wildhorse. LW is in the shade and is a really nice slot canyon. Easy hike. Don't confuse it with Wildhorse, you want Little Wildhorse just around the corner from Goblins.

Moab- Hike Delicate Arch(hot no shade 3 hours moderate), Hike Landscape Arch/Devils Garden(4-5 hours moderate), see Balanced Rock, see Double Arch(my favorite arch), maybe do Firey Furnace with a ranger. See Deadhorse Point. Do consider my suggestion with Desert Highlights. most everyone hikes Delicate Arch at Sunset. I did my first trip, I plan on hiking it at 6:00am on my trip in May there.

Mesa Verde- Balcony House and Cliff Palace was our favorite, but see Spruce Tree as well. Most of the houses require you to be with a ranger. Spruce Tree, you can see on your own. Have an indian taco at the little cafe stand. See as many of the houses as you can.

Durango- everyone ride the train, but we thought the train was just ok. We loved the zipline, but it's expensive.

Can't help you with Santa Fe. Debit has great advice on 4 corners area and Bill has helped me a lot on Grand Canyon questions.

Search these on youtube, watch and see if any of them interest you.

mvan

The itinerary above, by spirobulldog, looks very promising! I think we will need to do the South rim of the GC because our relatives want to do that and they will be with us just for the GC part of the trip. So 2 nights at GC should work, if we do not do Phantom Ranch hike.

If we leave the GC south rim and drive to Zion, maybe we would have time for some hiking that first day? Possibly the Narrows (3 hours or so- would probably need to do the short version) then stay at the Zion Lodge 1 night, wake up early and do the Angels Landing longer hike? Do you think we would need 2 nights or 3 in the Zion area? Perhaps 2 nights at Zion and a 3rd night closer to Bryce, any advice on that? Then after Bryce we could head over to Moab, stopping at some of the areas you mention above. Then 2 nights in Moab to do the Canyonlands/Arches area....
I am thinking that for Mesa Verde, we would probably stay in Cortez 1 night unless we decide to stay at Far View Lodge in the park.

starrs

I'd stay in Durango for Mesa Verde if you don't stay in the park. I love the town.

DebitNM

I am thinking that for Mesa Verde, we would probably stay in Cortez 1 night unless we decide to stay at Far View Lodge in the park.

Spending the night at Far View is really optimal, but book soon if that is what you want to do.

If you are only "spending" the night somewhere else, Cortez will work just fine. It will be less expensive than Durango and there are several nice places to eat; it is 10 minutes from the park exit.

If you are going to have a bit more time, then Durango would be worthwhile to spend the night. It is also in the right direction for the trip to NM.

spirobulldog

Debit, This is for 2012. So they have plenty of time.

The Narrows- Hike as far as Orderville Canyon- this is side canyon that gets very narrow. You can hike in and just turn around when you want to. I think 3 hours isn't really enough. Probably need more like 5 hours. If it happens to rain or rain is threatening you will not be able to hike. Flash Floods are a real threat. Do check with visitor center to check conditions before you start. There are other great hikes there, but these two are the best IMOP.

I think two days would be plenty enough for Zion. Bryce has a lodge as well that would be a great option. I think 1 full day there would be nice. Usually the ranger-led night tours are held on Full Moon times and Saturdays.

Far View is just ok lodging. It isn't the Historic Type lodging found in GC, Bryce or Zion. However, the food there is really good. I would stay there if you could. But, would be my least favorite compared to the rest of your trip.

I am a real sucker for Historic National Park Lodging. They are usually bad beds, thin walls, overpriced, etc. We have had squirrel, mice, bird, and almost a buffalo in our accomadations at the parks. We Love It. We don't really do anything but sleep in them, so I can't really explain the attraction. Their locations usually make them much easier to start out early and stay out late. Some people hate them, so they aren't for everyone. At Zion, it is fairly likely that in the morning when you go outside your cabin, you will encounter several wild turkeys and deer. We saw up pretty close a California Condor on our Angels Landing hike.

I don't know how many National Parks your kids have visited, but get them a Stamp Book. I regret not doing this years ago.

http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/...CS_003=4433951
Click on above for May 2008 photos of Arches

http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/...w59560&CS_003=
Click on above for Oct 2009 photos of Zion

DebitNM

sorry, missed the 2012. Far View rooms are pretty basic, but they are convenient and have spectacular sunset views [be sure to ask for a room that faces west].

And yes, the Metate Room has good food, not great, but worthwhile. [I have a post here on a dinner there.]

emalloy

I'll echo what Debit says, the Far View rooms that we have stayed in do have spectacular views. Also, the drive up onto the mesa takes about a half hour if you stop to look at all and I wouldn't want to drive back down after a day of hiking. We also have had very nice meals at the Metate room. If you are there at a busy time, see if you can make a reservation for one of the tables with a view.

mvan

I am definitely sold on going to Zion AND to Arches after seeing your great photos Spirobulldog! My husband is a geology professor so this will be paradise for him - it all looks awesome. I think we now have enough info to flesh out our plans and luckily we have about 18 months (although I know we will have to make some reservations 13 months out, so good to be planning now) If I think of any other sepcific questions about specific areas that we will visit, I'll post a new topic. Thank you everyone (if anyone has any further advice, of course I am always eager to hear more!)

spirobulldog

You really can't go wrong with any of the parks in Utah, they are all different. Capitol Reef is my least favorite, but it does offer some nice hikes and you might be the only one on the trail. Most of the other hikes I've mentioned can draw a crowd. If you don't see anything else between Bryce and Moab, do see Goblin Valley.

Link below to--Goblin Valley, Little Wildhorse Slot Canyon, Capitol Reef, and Detached Canyonlands Section. This is very small unit that isn't really part of the main Canyonlands. It is known as Horseshoe Canyon. It contains the best(considered by most people) pictograph wall known as The Great Gallery. This is also the canyon that the guy that cut off his own arm a few years ago when he became trapped(blue john canyon, you get to it by entering Horseshoe Canyon). This trip was in oct. 2009 with my next door neighbor. This is absolutely the end of nowhere. 30 mile drive on a dirt road and then moderate 2-3 mile hike to the gallery. Probably not something you would want to do, but it was interesting. But do look at the goblins near the end of the photos. I can't think of anywhere I have been that ever left such an odd impression on me than Goblin Valley. Great star gazing there at night.

http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/...CS_003=4433951

chs29445

-spiro, great pics. A few quick questions. How much hiking did you all do in the water? Was it cold? Looks like most had everyday gear/shoes. That work o.k.? Thanks.

chs29445

^ ^ Referencing the Zion pics

suzanna132

I agree with emmaloy Bandelier is a great place. Enjoy.