Having fun on the Michigan Lake near Chicago
May 25th, 2009, 09:33 AM
#22
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The dates I mentioned about the Chesterton Art Fair above were incorrect. It is August 1-2 this year. I do apologize.
With respect to your question about St. Joseph, I personally haven't gone to any of the beaches in that area, so I cannot advise. You could check this website for information, though: www.sjtoday.org
The area of Michigan has many fruit orchards, wineries, etc. When I go up to the Saugatuck/Douglas area, I always make it over to Fennville, which is about 10 miles inland. I usually go to the Crane Pie Pantry for a bite and to enjoy their apple cider (cranespiepantry.com) and go to Fenn Valley Vineyards (www.fennvalley.com). The latter is having their Blues in the Vineyard event August 1, their Summer Cookout on August 7 and music recitals on Sunday afternoons.
Sorry to give you so much information to sift through but this way you all can choose the best entertainment options for your group. Hope you have great fun doing whatever you choose.
With respect to your question about St. Joseph, I personally haven't gone to any of the beaches in that area, so I cannot advise. You could check this website for information, though: www.sjtoday.org
The area of Michigan has many fruit orchards, wineries, etc. When I go up to the Saugatuck/Douglas area, I always make it over to Fennville, which is about 10 miles inland. I usually go to the Crane Pie Pantry for a bite and to enjoy their apple cider (cranespiepantry.com) and go to Fenn Valley Vineyards (www.fennvalley.com). The latter is having their Blues in the Vineyard event August 1, their Summer Cookout on August 7 and music recitals on Sunday afternoons.
Sorry to give you so much information to sift through but this way you all can choose the best entertainment options for your group. Hope you have great fun doing whatever you choose.
May 25th, 2009, 10:24 AM
#23
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Once again, thanks a lot. I have made a choice: Holiday Inn Express St.Joseph. I think about a long drive to Canada the next day. On the way we would wish to see Detroit so, we should find a place on the Michigan Lake not so far from Detroit. Besides, along our way to St.Joseph from Chicago we hope to have chances to stopover for a couple of hours to see the Indiana Dunes and stay on the beaches.
May 26th, 2009, 01:26 PM
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Bostok, it's a little difficult for me to understand your itinerary.
I thought that you 1) wanted to drive from Rockville, MD via Columbus (with an overnight stay there, perhaps) to the Chicagoland area and 2) had scheduled only 2 nights in the Chicagoland area. Is that correct?
So, are you saying that you are driving from Columbus, OH to the O'Hare area for the first night? (A long day of driving in itself.) And then traveling back through all that Chicago weekend traffic to St. Joseph, MI for the second night? IMHO, that's a lot of traveling through the worst part of Chicago's traffic for an overnight stay.
I really, really, really think that you might be too tired from all that driving to enjoy much of anything. That's the whole reason I mentioned above that I thought staying in Indiana would be something for you to consider. Staying to the east of Chicago would save a minimum of 4 driving hours (considering this is on the weekend). I really wouldn't recommend staying anywhere nearer than Chesterton to the east, if you are taking the South Shore in. (The South Shore's eastern-most terminus is the South Bend (Indiana) Airport, so you cannot take it from St. Joseph, MI.)
I'm not sure what the attractions are you wish to see so briefly in the Detroit area on your way to Canada. Perhaps it's only me, but I've always considered the Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village that area's best attractions but they will certainly take more than a brief stop.
Please advise what your intentions are. I am just concerned that you will be so overly tired from driving these distances in a short period of time that you really won't enjoy these areas.
I thought that you 1) wanted to drive from Rockville, MD via Columbus (with an overnight stay there, perhaps) to the Chicagoland area and 2) had scheduled only 2 nights in the Chicagoland area. Is that correct?
So, are you saying that you are driving from Columbus, OH to the O'Hare area for the first night? (A long day of driving in itself.) And then traveling back through all that Chicago weekend traffic to St. Joseph, MI for the second night? IMHO, that's a lot of traveling through the worst part of Chicago's traffic for an overnight stay.
I really, really, really think that you might be too tired from all that driving to enjoy much of anything. That's the whole reason I mentioned above that I thought staying in Indiana would be something for you to consider. Staying to the east of Chicago would save a minimum of 4 driving hours (considering this is on the weekend). I really wouldn't recommend staying anywhere nearer than Chesterton to the east, if you are taking the South Shore in. (The South Shore's eastern-most terminus is the South Bend (Indiana) Airport, so you cannot take it from St. Joseph, MI.)
I'm not sure what the attractions are you wish to see so briefly in the Detroit area on your way to Canada. Perhaps it's only me, but I've always considered the Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village that area's best attractions but they will certainly take more than a brief stop.
Please advise what your intentions are. I am just concerned that you will be so overly tired from driving these distances in a short period of time that you really won't enjoy these areas.
May 27th, 2009, 07:28 AM
#25
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Yes, I am going to reach the Chicago area in two days driving from Rockville with an overnight around Columbus (perhaps not in the city, it's just a half-way point).
A lodging in the O'Hare area was chosen with an assumption that this not into the big city with its heavy traffic and parking problems and, on the other hand, the city may be reached in less than an hour by public transport (I have found a hotel just near the EL station).
I would agree with you that Chesterton is more convenient point to stay considering our approach to this area from East (or South-East) and further drive to the North-East. However, I am concerned as to how to reach Chicago by public transport and how long will it take from Chesterton. We would wish to spend in Chicago as much time as possible as we will have only one day there.
As to Detroit I would ask for advice because I have heard much that this city is not so nice and beautiful now and is not so safe. Do you think it is worth seeing it (just a couple of hours) or it would be better to move around? How about Dearborn and Ann Arbor? I suppose to enter Canada in the Sarnia area and to stay for an overnight there on the Huron Lake.
As to driving time I am ready to drive long (we had such an experience the last year moving from Grand Canyon to San Francisco and then to LA) but of course, if I see a chance to reduce it I would have it in mind. In Canada, instead, I plan to have short day driving between points.
A lodging in the O'Hare area was chosen with an assumption that this not into the big city with its heavy traffic and parking problems and, on the other hand, the city may be reached in less than an hour by public transport (I have found a hotel just near the EL station).
I would agree with you that Chesterton is more convenient point to stay considering our approach to this area from East (or South-East) and further drive to the North-East. However, I am concerned as to how to reach Chicago by public transport and how long will it take from Chesterton. We would wish to spend in Chicago as much time as possible as we will have only one day there.
As to Detroit I would ask for advice because I have heard much that this city is not so nice and beautiful now and is not so safe. Do you think it is worth seeing it (just a couple of hours) or it would be better to move around? How about Dearborn and Ann Arbor? I suppose to enter Canada in the Sarnia area and to stay for an overnight there on the Huron Lake.
As to driving time I am ready to drive long (we had such an experience the last year moving from Grand Canyon to San Francisco and then to LA) but of course, if I see a chance to reduce it I would have it in mind. In Canada, instead, I plan to have short day driving between points.
May 27th, 2009, 09:18 AM
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Actually, it takes about an hour to get into downtown Chicago from O'Hare on the Blue Line - or longer, if there is any construction on the line (which occurs from time to time). Please keep in mind that doesn't include the amount of time which it would take for you to get from your hotel to where you can pick up the Blue Line.
It takes a little more than 1 1/4 hours to get into downtown Chicago from the Dune Park station. Again, that doesn't include the time it would take you to drive to the Dune Park station from one of the hotels, but I'm thinking that it couldn't take more than 15 minutes (even including wait time for stoplights) as the station is so close.
The South Shore doesn't have as many trains as the Blue Line, though - but you can see the options yourself on the timetable at the NICTD website.
So, you can see that the difference in the commuting time is neglible. Where you will really save is in *not* driving to the O'Hare area and then turning around and driving back eastwards, especially through weekend traffic.
Also, the South Shore has a special family fare - up to 2 children 13 or younger ride free with each paid adult on weekday off-peak and on weekend/holidays.
This note is for all: The South Shore is a commuter train and the parking lots are not intended for long-term parking. They are regularly filled to capacity with the autos of worker-bees commuting into the city, and it will become even more so now that the price of gas is rising. The only stop along their route which does have long-term parking is the the South Bend airport - and there are special lots for that, for which a fee is charged. Their website indicates that while *overnight* (and not long-term) parking is available, it is not encouraged and it is parking at your own risk. So, if you are taking a day trip into Chicago, consider taking the South Shore. If you are planning on staying in Chicago, park where long term parking is available.
It takes a little more than 1 1/4 hours to get into downtown Chicago from the Dune Park station. Again, that doesn't include the time it would take you to drive to the Dune Park station from one of the hotels, but I'm thinking that it couldn't take more than 15 minutes (even including wait time for stoplights) as the station is so close.
The South Shore doesn't have as many trains as the Blue Line, though - but you can see the options yourself on the timetable at the NICTD website.
So, you can see that the difference in the commuting time is neglible. Where you will really save is in *not* driving to the O'Hare area and then turning around and driving back eastwards, especially through weekend traffic.
Also, the South Shore has a special family fare - up to 2 children 13 or younger ride free with each paid adult on weekday off-peak and on weekend/holidays.
This note is for all: The South Shore is a commuter train and the parking lots are not intended for long-term parking. They are regularly filled to capacity with the autos of worker-bees commuting into the city, and it will become even more so now that the price of gas is rising. The only stop along their route which does have long-term parking is the the South Bend airport - and there are special lots for that, for which a fee is charged. Their website indicates that while *overnight* (and not long-term) parking is available, it is not encouraged and it is parking at your own risk. So, if you are taking a day trip into Chicago, consider taking the South Shore. If you are planning on staying in Chicago, park where long term parking is available.
May 27th, 2009, 09:25 AM
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Bostock, sorry, I accidentally posted before I was through.
I want you to enjoy your visit to Chicago as much as possible, as I feel this is simply one great city! If my suggestions can provide you with a little more rest (from that driving, of which you will be getting plenty anyway) to enjoy Chicago just a little - or maybe a lot - more, then I've done what I've set out to do.
I want you to enjoy your visit to Chicago as much as possible, as I feel this is simply one great city! If my suggestions can provide you with a little more rest (from that driving, of which you will be getting plenty anyway) to enjoy Chicago just a little - or maybe a lot - more, then I've done what I've set out to do.
May 27th, 2009, 11:50 AM
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Hi Bostock! Sounds like a great trip. My two cents:
I live in Michigan and have lived in Chicago.
Please don't stay at O'Hare. Traffic from downtown to O'Hare and back is a NIGHTMARE. It is much worse in fact than the traffic in the city. The whole charm of Chicago is that it is a city that people live in, not just work in, so the evening and nights are full of people going out to dinner and walking all around. Please try to stay in downtown Chicago. It will really make your trip something special. Plus, you can just put the car away in the hotel garage for the time you are there. You won't need it. Public transportation is great and it is a great walking city. You won't need the car at all.
Now for Michigan, Detroit has its problems, but the downtown area along the river is fine for a stopover. Ann Arbor is a great town to see. I lived there for seven years and long to go back. The college campus is beautiful (you can get a tour) and the downtown is fun and filled with outdoor cafes. Since you are going through Sarnia, you could just bypass Detroit all together.
Another great thing to do on your way through Michigan is Greenfield Village. Henry Ford bought pieces of American history and moved them to this outdoor sight. You can tour the Wright Brothers actual bicycle shop and their workshop as well as Edison's workshop. You can witness old fashioned crafts being practiced such as glassblowing and pottery making. It is a very cool place. Also in that complex you can take a tour of a Ford plant in production making trucks. Both of these things are in Dearborn.
http://www.hfmgv.org/
I live in Michigan and have lived in Chicago.
Please don't stay at O'Hare. Traffic from downtown to O'Hare and back is a NIGHTMARE. It is much worse in fact than the traffic in the city. The whole charm of Chicago is that it is a city that people live in, not just work in, so the evening and nights are full of people going out to dinner and walking all around. Please try to stay in downtown Chicago. It will really make your trip something special. Plus, you can just put the car away in the hotel garage for the time you are there. You won't need it. Public transportation is great and it is a great walking city. You won't need the car at all.
Now for Michigan, Detroit has its problems, but the downtown area along the river is fine for a stopover. Ann Arbor is a great town to see. I lived there for seven years and long to go back. The college campus is beautiful (you can get a tour) and the downtown is fun and filled with outdoor cafes. Since you are going through Sarnia, you could just bypass Detroit all together.
Another great thing to do on your way through Michigan is Greenfield Village. Henry Ford bought pieces of American history and moved them to this outdoor sight. You can tour the Wright Brothers actual bicycle shop and their workshop as well as Edison's workshop. You can witness old fashioned crafts being practiced such as glassblowing and pottery making. It is a very cool place. Also in that complex you can take a tour of a Ford plant in production making trucks. Both of these things are in Dearborn.
http://www.hfmgv.org/
May 27th, 2009, 12:28 PM
#30
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kelliebellie, with all due respect, there are pretty heavy traffic jams getting into Chicago from points in Indiana as well as those going from Chicago out to O'Hare, even if you take the Toll Road to the Skyway into the city, instead of the Dan Ryan (I-94 for you, Bostok).
The OP is planning on spending only one night in the Chicagoland area and it's on the weekend.
Do you really feel that that one night would qualify 2-3 hours of additional driving time (on top of what they already are planning) plus $25-50 for overnight parking of their vehicle at one of the downtown parking garages?
The OP is planning on spending only one night in the Chicagoland area and it's on the weekend.
Do you really feel that that one night would qualify 2-3 hours of additional driving time (on top of what they already are planning) plus $25-50 for overnight parking of their vehicle at one of the downtown parking garages?
May 27th, 2009, 12:33 PM
#31
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Thank you, Kelliebellie.
Yes, first of all I've tried to find a place to stay in the downtown Chicago but either it is too expensive (considering their parking fees!) or unavailable for us 5 persons. I also tried VRBO to find a private lodge.
In the end I booked Holiday Inn O'Hare. They have free parking and I would leave the car there for all the time and use L blue line. They say on the web that the L station is right opposite the hotel. I checked the time of operation and it showed me they operate 24 hours. I hope we will be able to spend our time in downtown as long as possible before return to the hotel. Do you think I made a mistake?
As to Michigan, thank you for the advice, I am really concerned about it. I've heard much bad info about this city. Anyway, we will definitely do our best to find time to visit Dearborn and Ann Arbor.
Yes, first of all I've tried to find a place to stay in the downtown Chicago but either it is too expensive (considering their parking fees!) or unavailable for us 5 persons. I also tried VRBO to find a private lodge.
In the end I booked Holiday Inn O'Hare. They have free parking and I would leave the car there for all the time and use L blue line. They say on the web that the L station is right opposite the hotel. I checked the time of operation and it showed me they operate 24 hours. I hope we will be able to spend our time in downtown as long as possible before return to the hotel. Do you think I made a mistake?
As to Michigan, thank you for the advice, I am really concerned about it. I've heard much bad info about this city. Anyway, we will definitely do our best to find time to visit Dearborn and Ann Arbor.
May 27th, 2009, 06:56 PM
#32
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But exhiled, O'Hare is not the place for them. Then they have to criss cross the city twice. This could be 5 hours of driving. My new suggestion:
Leave your car in Indiana at the train station. Michigan City is nice. Take the train into the city, spend the night downtown, and then take the train back to your car the next day and continue on your way. No parking, no driving across the city.
http://www.nictd.com/
The Seneca is a nice hotel and does have some suites. I don't know if they will hold 5 or not.
http://www.senecahotel.com/index.html
Leave your car in Indiana at the train station. Michigan City is nice. Take the train into the city, spend the night downtown, and then take the train back to your car the next day and continue on your way. No parking, no driving across the city.
http://www.nictd.com/
The Seneca is a nice hotel and does have some suites. I don't know if they will hold 5 or not.
http://www.senecahotel.com/index.html
May 27th, 2009, 11:51 PM
#33
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kellie, I have never told the OP to stay at O'Hare. They had already planned staying there. If you read above, I suggested that they consider staying in Chesterton and take the South Shore in *for the day* only, so they don't have to drive those extra hours.
I'm not sure what weekend in August they are thinking about coming but, right off the top of my head, I can think of two very good reasons why I surely wouldn't want to be driving into Chicago during either one: Lollapalooza (August 7-9) and the Chicago Air and Water Show (August 15-16).
I once was so very unfortunate to be caught in traffic on Lake Shore Drive on the *Thursday* evening of the Blues Fest. Now this was on *Thursday* - not even one of the heaviest days. It took me *1 full hour* to travel from McFetridge to Balbo (6 blocks!). I can't even imagine how long it will take for a much bigger event like the two I've mentioned. That's why the City of Chicago always warns folks to take public transportation into the city when these big festivals are running.
BTW, I've already mentioned the *overnight parking* situation at the South Shore above. It's not encouraged by the NICTD and it's parking at their own risk. That is not what those South Shore parking lots are for - with the exception of the short-term and long-term parking at the South Bend Airport, for which you pay fees.
I'm not sure what weekend in August they are thinking about coming but, right off the top of my head, I can think of two very good reasons why I surely wouldn't want to be driving into Chicago during either one: Lollapalooza (August 7-9) and the Chicago Air and Water Show (August 15-16).
I once was so very unfortunate to be caught in traffic on Lake Shore Drive on the *Thursday* evening of the Blues Fest. Now this was on *Thursday* - not even one of the heaviest days. It took me *1 full hour* to travel from McFetridge to Balbo (6 blocks!). I can't even imagine how long it will take for a much bigger event like the two I've mentioned. That's why the City of Chicago always warns folks to take public transportation into the city when these big festivals are running.
BTW, I've already mentioned the *overnight parking* situation at the South Shore above. It's not encouraged by the NICTD and it's parking at their own risk. That is not what those South Shore parking lots are for - with the exception of the short-term and long-term parking at the South Bend Airport, for which you pay fees.
May 28th, 2009, 01:01 AM
#34
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Bostok, something which you need to consider:
Wherever you stay in the Chicagoland area, you would do best to stay at that same place for *2* nights. Why?
You are driving in from Columbus, OH (or wherever). You would want to rest for the night after that long drive. (That's Night #1.) Then you go into Chicago for the next full day. You return and I'm assuming you want to rest before driving again. (That's Night #2.)
Now, you could try to drive from Chesterton, IN up to St. Joseph after a full day trip in Chicago, but I really doubt that you want to do that. In fact, I have a friend who used to commute daily for work from Porter, IN - which is right next to Chesterton - to Benton Harbor, MI - which is right next to St. Joseph. So it is indeed possible to do - but then you and your children would miss all those beaches, scenery, etc. along the way because you'd be driving at night.
BTW, if you were driving straight through (without any stops or short side trips), it would take you a little less than 4 hours to get to Detroit from Chesterton, IN via I-94.
I thought that I had better mention this issue before your schedule is set in stone.
Wherever you stay in the Chicagoland area, you would do best to stay at that same place for *2* nights. Why?
You are driving in from Columbus, OH (or wherever). You would want to rest for the night after that long drive. (That's Night #1.) Then you go into Chicago for the next full day. You return and I'm assuming you want to rest before driving again. (That's Night #2.)
Now, you could try to drive from Chesterton, IN up to St. Joseph after a full day trip in Chicago, but I really doubt that you want to do that. In fact, I have a friend who used to commute daily for work from Porter, IN - which is right next to Chesterton - to Benton Harbor, MI - which is right next to St. Joseph. So it is indeed possible to do - but then you and your children would miss all those beaches, scenery, etc. along the way because you'd be driving at night.
BTW, if you were driving straight through (without any stops or short side trips), it would take you a little less than 4 hours to get to Detroit from Chesterton, IN via I-94.
I thought that I had better mention this issue before your schedule is set in stone.
May 28th, 2009, 03:17 AM
#35
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to Exiledprincess:
So, do you think it makes sense to stay in Chesterton for 3 nights instead of O'Hare and St.Joseph all together?
So, the day after the 1st night we would spend in Chicago city and the day after the 2nd night - around the Indiana Dunes. After the 3d night we would start for Detroit without visiting St.Joseph and the lakeshore around it.
Do you mean that?
So, do you think it makes sense to stay in Chesterton for 3 nights instead of O'Hare and St.Joseph all together?
So, the day after the 1st night we would spend in Chicago city and the day after the 2nd night - around the Indiana Dunes. After the 3d night we would start for Detroit without visiting St.Joseph and the lakeshore around it.
Do you mean that?
May 28th, 2009, 07:31 AM
#36
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Exhiled - I know you don't want them to stay at O'Hare either, but they didn't seem to be going for the Indiana idea and I was trying to provide an alternative.
Bostock - If we had your exact dates, that would be helpful.
The O'Hare area is not really like other airports. You have the Lake in the way on the east side, so all of the traffic in the whole area goes through the southwest of the city.
I'm going to give you a "worst case scenario" that could realistically happen. Traffic all around Chicago can get very, very bad.
It could take 2 hours to get across or around Chicago from the east to get to your hotel near O'Hare. Then another 1 hour to get back downtown on the train. Then 1 hour to get back to your hotel. Then another 2 hours to get back across or around Chicago to head to Michigan. So you've spent 6 hours in transit for one day in the city.
Give us your exact dates and we have to come up with something better. It is just hard to explain, but the O'Hare hotel just doesn't make sense.
Bostock - If we had your exact dates, that would be helpful.
The O'Hare area is not really like other airports. You have the Lake in the way on the east side, so all of the traffic in the whole area goes through the southwest of the city.
I'm going to give you a "worst case scenario" that could realistically happen. Traffic all around Chicago can get very, very bad.
It could take 2 hours to get across or around Chicago from the east to get to your hotel near O'Hare. Then another 1 hour to get back downtown on the train. Then 1 hour to get back to your hotel. Then another 2 hours to get back across or around Chicago to head to Michigan. So you've spent 6 hours in transit for one day in the city.
Give us your exact dates and we have to come up with something better. It is just hard to explain, but the O'Hare hotel just doesn't make sense.
May 28th, 2009, 07:38 AM
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And please check out this site for condos in Chicago:
http://athomeinnchicago.reachlocal.net/
I think Neopatrick used this company while last in Chicago with great success. They have a minimum 2 night rental, but loads of places for 5 people.
http://athomeinnchicago.reachlocal.net/
I think Neopatrick used this company while last in Chicago with great success. They have a minimum 2 night rental, but loads of places for 5 people.
May 28th, 2009, 07:48 AM
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And I also don't think you want to stop in Columbus on your way to Chicago. I think the fastest route actually takes you up to Cleveland and over on hwy 80.
And I didn't realize you had little kids with you. I would definitely skip Ann Arbor and do Greenfield Village instead. They would like that more.
Actually just past Cleveland is Sandusky, Ohio with the world's best roller coaster park.
http://www.cedarpoint.com/
And I didn't realize you had little kids with you. I would definitely skip Ann Arbor and do Greenfield Village instead. They would like that more.
Actually just past Cleveland is Sandusky, Ohio with the world's best roller coaster park.
http://www.cedarpoint.com/
May 28th, 2009, 07:56 AM
#39
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On your way out of Chicago, I highly recommend stopping at Warren Dunes State Park.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...4007--,00.html
Swimming is great there as is climbing the dunes.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...4007--,00.html
Swimming is great there as is climbing the dunes.
May 29th, 2009, 01:24 AM
#40
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In reply to Kelliebellie: my dates in the Chicagoland are: August 7 till August 9.
Also, we plan 1 night at the Eastern Michigan lakeshore (St.Joseph). If we stop at a place closer to Chicago we will have a too long drive to Canada the next day. So, I have decided to choose a "mid-point" but with an idea to
As to the condos in Chicago: the idea was not to drive into Chicago city because of the heavy traffic and parking problems and to stay outside. But if we stay at any condo inside Chicago we will have to drive into the city. I ma open to recieve any advice from you on this item.
I thank you for the advice re Cleveland instead of Columbus but as I see in the Google maps the difference is not so dramatic. Moreover, I have already found a cheap motel there. We consider this point just to have an overnight relaxation without looking around and visiting any places of interest as we will have a tight driving schedule.
OK, we will try to see Greenwich Village, of course. Thank you.
Also, we plan 1 night at the Eastern Michigan lakeshore (St.Joseph). If we stop at a place closer to Chicago we will have a too long drive to Canada the next day. So, I have decided to choose a "mid-point" but with an idea to
As to the condos in Chicago: the idea was not to drive into Chicago city because of the heavy traffic and parking problems and to stay outside. But if we stay at any condo inside Chicago we will have to drive into the city. I ma open to recieve any advice from you on this item.
I thank you for the advice re Cleveland instead of Columbus but as I see in the Google maps the difference is not so dramatic. Moreover, I have already found a cheap motel there. We consider this point just to have an overnight relaxation without looking around and visiting any places of interest as we will have a tight driving schedule.
OK, we will try to see Greenwich Village, of course. Thank you.
