Alsoa, when you make statements like:

"Gun-owning parents with legal guns teach their children about gun safety and keep the guns locked."

and,

"People who carry legally are by far more law-abiding than the rest of the public."

I'd say you've blown your whole argument. You are obviously looking at this issue through smoke-tinted glasses. Everyone knows you can bend statistics to say what you want.

The fact is, most of us know someone who has owned a gun and never taught their children anything about it. I've known two people who had hidden guns in their houses and were convinced their kids didn't even know they had them. One kid found his dad's gun and sold it to buy drugs. Another kid found the gun and gave it to a friend to commit a crime.

Most of the illegal guns out there have been stolen from someone who had a permit and didn't do what needed to be done (keep it locked up) to prevent it's theft.

Having a permit to carry a gun doesn't make you smarter, more cautious or more law abiding. Puleeze. Plenty of idiots carry guns.

Who cares? Isn't this a travel site?

Here is another absolutely true story. We have a friend who loves guns. He's a frustrated cop who is an executive but went through Police Academy training and volunteered to "ride along" with a local Police dept. He has what amounts to a small arsenal in his home. One day while my family was at his house for dinner, he took us to his study to show us some of his guns locked in a gun cabinet. I was freaked because he has small children at home, and our children were with us.

I expressed my concern and he said that there was nothing to worry about since the cabinet is always locked, the key and the ammunition were hidden, so there is no way the kids could get near the guns.

Just then, his 4 year old daughter said "I know where the key is, I know where the key is" and ran off to the guest room, pulled a chair over to the closet, climbed up and got the key wich was "hidden" under a box. Scared the s**t out of me. I will NOT allow my kids in their house. They still have the guns.

Another true story. Two kids in Oakland were home on one of those teacher work days. Both of their parents were cops. They found a gun and were playing with it when it discharged and the younger kid is a quadraplegic now. Yes, the parents were charged with a criminal offense, but you can't convince me that just because someone has a permit or is a COP they are keeping their kids safe.

Very true. However, there are risks in everything. My kids could get killed riding their bikes or the bus to school. We do everything possible to protect them and reduce risks. Owning guns is one way to protect them. I live in a nice suburban area too, but being a cop I can tell you there are plenty of robberies and rapes here. No area is completely safe, so lock your doors, windows, call 911, and get a gun.

As for safety, my guns are in a locked safe. Our children do not know the combination. (It's not my wedding date or birthday or anything stupid like that.) The guns also cannot be used unless you're wearing a special magnetic ring. (It costs only $300 to modify a gun this way.)

Everytime I approve a gun permit, I give the parent a long talk about how to store their guns. If you're responsible, you won't have a problem. Sounds like that other cop was not responsible.

Policeman: "If you're responsible, you won't have a problem". That's about the most concise owner's manual for life that I've ever seen. The cops in our town are great - sounds like they're great where you work, too.

Yeah John, what happens when your kid goes over to play at the irresponsible friends house and finds their unlocked, loaded gun lying around? Oh well, gee, it's too bad that everyone isn't responsible, unfortunately your kid is dead as a result.

If you had a brain you'd be dangerous. In fact, your line of thinking already IS dangerous.

I own no guns, don't understand why people feel a need to carry them.

But they do. And it's legal.

How come so many legitimate questions in these forums turn into debates? XXX didn't ask what we thought about it. He asked "Is it allowed"

4cryingOutLoud, Why not just answer the question, or MOVE ON!

I think we all can agree that if you can't pack heat, the terrorists have one.

Smarten: I don't know why I'm bothering, but for the record - allowing your kid to play at an irresponsible friend's (note correct use of the apostrophe) house wouldn't be responsible, now would it?

John, do you have kids? If you do, you know that houses with handguns that aren't locked up don't usually have a sign out front saying so. I always make a point (as does my wife) of asking the parents of my kids' friends if they have guns in the house. Sometimes they say yes, and it's locked up, blah, blah, blah. Do I go into their house and inspect? No, I just ask their kid to play at our house instead. Do you go and inspect? And this doesn't even count the families who just blatantly lie and say they have no guns. Believe me, it happens. But most parents never even ask the question ("oh, they seem like a nice family, I'm sure they don't have guns").

Of course Bernard Goetz was mugged in the New York subway... the muggers were out on bail before the police finished questioning him (the victim)!
The next time, he had a gun. A couple of guys with sharpened screwdrivers ("We were just going to use them to break into pinall machines! Honest! We were just pan-handling!") demanded 5 bucks apiece. He still spent more time with the police afterward than they did...
You can cite stories from both sides of the street. Who was it who said "never pull a gun unless you're prepared to use it"? There are lots of people who are too stupid to drive, too, but we let them. If you can devise an intelligence test - "Are you smart enough to carry a gun?" - I'd love to hear it.
Meanwhile, the smart people usually benefit from what they do, and the dumb people usually weed themselves out, or those dumb enough to associate with them. As O Henry said "the contest is not always to the strongest, or the race to the fastest... but that's the way to bet."

I think xxx is my brother in law. He's a gun fanatic who won't go anywhere without them. On the two hour drive from his home to Washington DC to visit the Smithsonian, he insisted on taking one in the car, knowing that he could not take it into the museum and would be searched (post 9/11). I asked him what would he do if a terrorist/lunatic attacks in the museum or on the walk to/from the parked car a few blocks away. He said "Run like Hell to the car".

These people make no sense.

You say that gun freaks are scary? Silly little me...I thought CRIMINALS were scary. I suppose you'd label me a gunfreak because I carry a gun.

Several women have been violently attacked in my urban neighborhood, so I got a concealed carry permit, took a safety course, and learned how to shoot.

Getting a gun was the responsible thing to do, and the policeman I talked with commended me for doing so. The police are overworked and understaffed. Police can't be everywhere at once, and responsible, law-abiding citizens with guns make neighborhoods safer.

I'm a law-abiding citizen. I've never even gotten a parking ticket in my entire life! Why should I be denied the right to protect myself? Do I deserve to be victimized just because I'm not wealthy enough to live in posh suburbs like miss amomtoo and some of the other writers?

Well of course criminals are scary and I don't mean that everyone that carries a gun is a gun freak. I don't blame you if you live in a high crime area, maybe I would carry one too. I'm talking about the paranoid ones that live in safe neighborhoods but think there's a thug waiting to jump them at any time. The ones that "need" a gun where ever they go. The ones with a gun stockpile. The ones that might shoot you accidentally in the night if they think you are an intruder. The ones with small children in the house who may someday get curious. The ones that say "you'll get my gun when you pry it out of my cold dead hands".

Traveling man: I take no issue with your point and sympathize with the difficulties. If you review my postings in this thread you will see that I (1) recommended that the original poster learn and follow the gun laws, (2) reminded those who were busily forming a lynch mob that all he'd done was ask a question about how to act in accordance with the law, and (3) suggested that living one's life responsibly is not a bad goal. For that I was attacked by Smarten as either (a) feeble-minded or (b) dangerous.

If you review Smarten's posting you will note that he/she refers to an "irresponsible friend". Now, I have plenty of friends and I know plenty of irresponsible people, but I don't have any irresponsible friends and, if I did, particularly if they happened to be gun owners, I'd get rid of them. Apparently Smarten not only has such friends but even allows his/her kids to play in their homes. I merely pointed that out as irresponsible behavior, which it is.

I have carefully avoided joining the gun/anti-gun debate here because it is pointless, and will not do so now. I perceive we come down on opposite sides of that question and I respect your views even though I disagree with them.

I am attending a gun show this weekend and would like to take a model airplane in my carry-on bag. What are the chances I will be searched and asked not to attend?

Interestingly enough, yearight, it is highly possible for a person to be neither a pedophile or a drug addict and still have a loaded gun sitting in the nightstand drawer. As you can see by the posters on this thread, there are many people in this world who feel justified packing heat wherever they go. I will never have a gun in my house nor do I want my kids around them. There are probably 5-10 houses on my street with guns (the guy with the military vehicle in his front yard who is always dressed in camouflage worries me, he no doubt has an arsenal), but I doubt there are 5-10 pedophiles on my street. Believe me, I worry about that too. I wouldn't leave my kids alone with a priest either ;-). Perhaps you feel safer with a gun in your house. I feel safer without one. As John said above, we are not going to agree. As another poster said above, I have a problem with rabid gun owners who are irresponsible. I'm realistic, I don't think we will ever live in a world without guns, but I'd like to see more control over who gets to carry one and I'd like to see child safety locks.

Travelling man said: "I wouldn't leave my kids alone with a priest either ;-)."

oooooookay, so we are going to take this in a different direction, eh? I know your little "netiquette" winky face means you're kiddin, but what an insult!

As long as we're doing gun-toting facts, FACT is 97% of reported pedophiles are married men or women. (2000 National Crime Statistics from Convictions) And yes, I agree the priest problem is with the word "reported." But don't go pointing a finger at the celibate lifestyle and say that's the cause; there are perverts in the world in all walks of life. Just as there are coverups, too. Expose them all!!!

Now how about some wine and wafers?

xx2, You're right, I think an intelligence test to award gun ownership is absurd. That's why I think that NO ONE should be allowed to carry a gun, unless they are an on duty policeman or in the military.

And some of you must be the most naive bunch of dopes around. How do you know who is responsible and who isn't? As another poster explained, not everyone "fesses up" to keeping a loaded gun at home. If you sent your child to play somewhere where you were told there wasn't a gun, and lo and behold they found one, and used it, it would be small consolation to know that the owners lied.

Several years ago in a nearby town a well known minister, pillar of the community, went out to dinner with his wife. His 2 sons were home, one 13 the other 11, they found a long forgotten rifle and one accidentaly shot the other in the head, killing him. By all accounts this guy was the most responsible guy around. Now he and his remaining son have to live with his carelessness for the rest of their lives.

Give your stupid excuses to the parents of an innocent child who's life was destroyed by a careless gun owner. Fact is, not everyone is responsible, and innocent victims need to be protected from the careless owners. Now since no one knows for sure who is or will be responsible, the risk is just too great to allow anyone to own a gun.

If some of the gun toting folks are upset that they won't have their toys, I mean guns, to play with, thats just too bad. It's fun to play with big fireworks too, but they are illegal in many states because someone could get hurt. Grow up and make the sacrifice people. A child's life could depend on it.