Phyl

Why can't airline pilots be licenced to carry a gun? Anyone breaking down the door (which needs to be stronger, in fact) would be greeted with a bullet. Why not?

Cowboy

People need to be trained in how to operate a weapon before we entrust them with important security functions. That's why we have police academies, training for soldiers, etc. Pilots fly planes. Let's have them focus on that, and if we believe we need additional protection, then we should provide trained air marshalls.

seamus

Most commercial pilots come from military backgrounds. I would assume that they could handle the gun that we would give them. An interesting idea.

Paul

Cowboy,
Couldn't disagree with you more. Every pilot should be trained and required to carry a gun. I think if we can trust them with our lives and multi-hundred million dollar aircraft, a gun is just insurance for all of us. I do agree that air marshalls are good however...
pg

dan woodlief

I don't see why a pilot couldn't be trained to use a gun. I know people who work at a federal prison, and every employee, including hospital staff, has to go through a three-week training program that includes firearm training (including M-16s and handguns), self-defense, and hostage simulations. Pilots could do something similar. A guy at work, who wanted to be a military pilot once and has a friend who is a commercial pilot, said there is concern about bullets piercing the shell of the plane. He thought at the least pilots could be armed with tasers.

njs

Couldn't agree more. I have a friend who was a flight attendant for usair and she said that the airlines provide the crew with nothing to defend themselves. They also train the male FA to remove any visible part of their uniform and take a seat during a highjacking as women tend to not "threaten" the psychos as much. Horrendous, isn't it?

Dick

Can someone please explain what would happen if a gun went off while the plane was travelling at an altitude of 35,000 ft.

Wouldn' that depressurize the cabin?...and then what?

discussed

Bullets could be made of weaker metal and the powder can be reduced to prevent peicing the plane walls. the bullit would not actual travel through an individual but flaten inside them.

x

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the bullet pierced the cabin walls and the plane started to depressurize, wouldn't that leave the terrorist without oxygen masks since they're out of their seats?

Cowboy

Here's how I know you're all wrong about arming pilots. At El Al, they do not expect the pilots to defend the aircraft. They use air marshalls, and it works. The only reason not to go with trained air marshalls and to expect the pilots to be the last line of defense is to save money.

You guys aren't that cheap, are you?

dan woodlief

No, I would rather see marshalls, but will there be enough for every flight? The different bullet type sounds viable to me. If the cabin lost pressure, couldn't a highjacker just take a mask from a passenger?

Cowboy

That's kind of like asking will there be enough FAs or pilots for every flight. Of course there will be enough, if we hire them.

John

Cowboy:
You've been on the range too long. The mere thought of a pilot having a gun in the cockpit would be a deterrant to hijacking. Simply make handling the handgun a requirement to achieve commercial flight qualification. Pilots are not stupid. I'm sure they could learn to handle a firearm with proper training.

L

How about three lines of defense: armed marshalls ... stronger doors that cannot be opened from outside ... and armed pilots, as last resort, using sawed-off shotguns that cover a broad area but at a lower velocity. Don't we need to prepare for the possibility that 3-6 hijackers could overhwelm one marshall? Ciao

Cowboy

Well, you have to draw the line somewhere, L.

It seems to me that having 1 or 2 air marshalls + better cockpit doors + better baggage screening + background checks on all airline and ground personnel + inspections of each plane for hidden weapons before boarding would greatly reduce the risk that a large group of armed hijackers will overwhelm the air marshalls.

I think that if a hijacking occurs, we are all better off having the pilots stay in the locked cockpit and land ASAP, rather than feel they should take their weapon back into the cabin to settle things. Imagine that the hijackers start killing passengers or crew in the cabin. If the pilots have weapons, they would be tempted to come out and protect people. I think they ought to be landing the plane, and the air marshalls should be trying to subdue the hijackers.

But if the pilots union comes out in favor of arming its members, that would be good enough for me. I'd be surprised if they'd view this as the best solution. We'll see.

joan

I agree with Cowboy. It's not fair to make policeman out of pilots. They have enough responsibility just flying the plane. No one should have a gun who doesn't volunteer for it, either, because IF you have a gun you MUST be willing to use it. Imagine you've been a pilot for 25 years, and now you have to carry this new responsibility. Unfair.
Hire the marshals.

I heard some countries have some sort of electrocution device in the doorway to the cockpit, which the pilot can trigger in the event of takeover...?

al

What about using sky marshalls but also giving the pilots a taser or stun/ tranquilizer-type gun for backup or emergency use on those run-of-the-mill air rage clowns?

Cowboy

Remember this. If there is a hijacking, and if the cockpit door is secure, we want the pilots to do two things and do them well. First, send out the hijack code. Second, land the plane fast. It will require ALL of their skills to do this safely. Give the pilot any kind of weapon, and he/she may feel compelled to go into the cabin and use it -- possibly giving the hijackers access to the cockpit, halving the number of pilots in the cockpit, and putting compromising safety for everyone on board.

Pilots fly planes. FAs serve snacks and enforce rules. Hire air marshalls for security.

L

Gosh, I agree with Cowboy too. No, LOL, I didn't mean for the pilots to go back and settle things with the hijackers. No, no. Yes, stay in that cockpit. Fly the plane. The shotgun is in case the hijackers break in. Last resort.

Can we finally agree to reopen National? Everybody says, hey, it's only 30 seconds to the White House. That's right. Unless the hijacker is flying at takeoff, how would he ever gain control in time to fly it into the WH? 30 seconds is 30 seconds. Time to reopen National. And Cowboy's program would help a lot. Ciao

Cowboy

L,

Agreed! We should open National and close Dulles.