Litespeed_Chick

In Greenville SC, a beautiful, growing city that has the restaurant culture of the worst backwater armpit imaginable...there are nothing but restaurant critics who give only positive reviews. I used to wonder if those guys were afraid to anger an advertiser or if they just had no taste. Then I realized I was being closed minded...they're probably both.

beachbum

This is all pure speculation, as none of us know the circumstances, if indeed no tip was left. That aside, yes the server served, and the busser bussed, but aren't they paid a minimum wage? To those of you who advocate tipping just so the wait staff can make a living, would you expect any better service the next time you dined at the same place? How do you propose to stop perpetuating the mediocrity? Maybe that server would fare much better in a Denny's.

snowrooster

When I was in high school I worked at Pizza Hut and I believe that the waitresses did make below minimum wage. If I'm not mistaken (and I may be) this was legal because it was a given that they would receive tips. Am I remembering correctly? Is this still the case w/servers?

beachbum

Depends on the state, snowrooster. In Oregon, employers are required to pay full minimum wage to servers, whereas most states allow an assumed level of tips to be "credited" towards minimum wages, resulting in less than minimum wages paid by the employer. That difference in labor costs has slowed expansion of several national chains into Oregon (which I guess is just fine by me!).

But, don't dodge my question.

snowrooster

I thought your questions were based on servers making minimum wage. Given that some servers don't make minimum wage I think they do deserve at least some tip even if they aren't the best. I'm not perpetuating mediocrity as I believe you send a message when you leave less than 15%. Maybe if this only happens to a server once they think the diner is cheap, but if they are really bad and are consistently left less than 15%, I think they get the message. If service is really bad, complain to the manager. It is the manager who has authority make the changes necessary for you to have a better experience on your next visit.

joan

All servers must make minimum wage. Federally, there is a reduced min wage for tipped employees (I think it's $2.30/hour). However, enough tips must be reported on the 1040 each year to equal minimum wage. Also, the employer must make up the difference if they are not tipped enough to make $5.15/hour. Most servers under-report their tips. Any server averaging minimum wage or lower needs to find a job they are better suited for, because most make way above min wage, all things considered. Also, much of their wages are not taxed because they usually under-report.

johng

a few thoughts on FL and on this thread.

1- reservations: if you want to get a res and FL, the best way IMHO is if you can manage to come by the restaurant at 10 AM when they start takign calls and book it in person. (obviously you need to be free to come back to napa in two months. Plan 2 is just show up, ask to have a glass of wine, and see if somebody does a no-show. If not, you can usually walk into Bouchon, Pere Jeanty, or Bistro Jeanty right down the street.

2- bad waiters: not that surprising. FL keeps the service charge and pays its waiters hourly. This system makes most professional waiters unwilling to work there.

3- food. I've eaten in great restaurants all around the world and i've had a few meals as good as FL, but none better.

31/2. It's insanely expensive!

4 - "critic" Patrick, you rock! And not just because that's my youngest son's name. There are many restaurant "critics" who write for some throw-away rag. They make a big deal of showing up at restaurants and announcing that they're doing a review, the main point being that they expect VIP treatment and some free stuff. I suspect that's what we're talking about here. Any "critic" who A) doesn't tip and B) doesn't like the food at FL is clearly out of his league.

luv2cook

I hope you get your reservation Tinathetoad. I have never been to the the FL and won't get there anytime soon but I do have Thomas Keller's 2 cookbooks, The French Laundry Cookbook and Buchon. I consider them both texts and food porn as the pictures are so vivid with color and surrealism. Everything i ahve made ahs turned out fantastic. Read the recipe beforehand, take your time and you will be rewarded with a wonderful meal and save $$$$$$$$$$

cyberUK

Interestingly enough, the New York Times
Dining in section has an article today by Julia Moskin entitled

"The Waiter You Stiffed Has Not Forgotten"

There is a list of web-sites frequented by waitstaff. One of the sites

www.bitterwaitress.com
Has a database of bad tippers. By name.

Litespeed_Chick

beachbum: I'll answer your question which I take to be: How to stop the cycle of mediocrity?

Adequate to good service I tip 20%. "over and above" gets something north of there.

If poor, I'll knock the tip down to 15% or so.

If the service is downright rude, they get zero. I have only done this once in recent memory. I think if you do this you should either speak to the manager on the way out, or write "bad service" on the tip line so nobody thinks you just forgot.

BUT...If I were at the FL and had a waiter so bad that I would even consider leaving no tip, I would go straight to the maitre d and ask for another waiter. There's no excuse for poor service in a restaurant of that quality and expense, not to mention I understand meals there last hours. It would be torture to be at the mercy of someone you hated for that length of time.

beachbum

The title of the article you referenced, cyberUK, reminded me of a story an associate of mine likes to tell. He and three friends were at the beginning of a golf weekend on Monterey Peninsula, having dinner at what was supposed to be a nice restaurant in Carmel. For reasons unknown to me, he either stiffed or left a minimal tip for the "service".

The next morning he showed up for his tee time at Pebble Beach, and was surprised to find that the caddy that had been assigned to him was the waiter from the night before. I don't think he got much help reading putts!

cyberUK

I don't know if you have seen the article, Beachbum, but the illustration shows an apron clad waiter holding a meat cleaver at his side.

Many years ago, my sons and I ate at the Carnegie deli here in NY. The bill was about 60.00. I went to the cash register to pay the check, and when I received my change, I handed my older son a ten dollar bill to put on the table, as a tip.

My younger son (about 10) and I waited outside for him. Well, our server, who was a feisty 40something woman, comes outside onto the sidewalk, yelling at the top of her lungs
"SERVICE IS NOT FREE IN NEW YORK, PAL"
while branishing a dirty knife and fork at me.

I promply returned to my table and picked up the 10 dollar bill, and that was the only time that I did not leave a tip.

loisco

We've been there twice. Both times the meals were superb and the service was impeccable. It was fun for us as we were in an rv at a campground near there and had to change to more"formal" wear to have dinner. The contrast in our attire was great.

In any case we loved the meal and would go again if we were up in the area and could get reservations.
We had a bad meal at Bouchon...and a nice tasting menu at Domain Chandon, but the French Laundry is a great memory to have. We also went to the Inn at Little Washington this past year and thought it didn't measure up at all to the French Laundry.

luv2cook

LOISCO,

I live in DC and while I have never eaten at the famous Inn at Little Washington, my foodie friends have all told me that it is not as good as it used to be. Once a place has gained a national reputation and you have a clientelle that literaly fly into a state to eat, then coast to coast comparisons are easier. I am sorry you had a bad meal at BUCHON as I love their cookbook.

loisco

We were surpised at Bouchon too since it is a Keller -owned restaurant. I wanted to write and tell him about how bad it was (we had been to the Laundry the night before)...but I didn't. And it wasn't because we had been to the Laundry the night before..the food just wasn't good and sloppily served. However, who knows?..maybe it was the head chef's night off? I will get the Bouchon cookbook from the library and try some of the recipes.

We also weren't that thrilled with Mustards but enjoyed the tasting menu at Domaine Chandon. When we go again to that area, we will got to St. Helena and try John Ash' restaurant, the name of which is escaping me.

I am happy we ate at the French Laundry because it is a memorable experience for me. I often take out the tasting menu and relive that night!!

You can tell I am a foodie right?

Dreamer2

$250 - $500 per person???!!!

No place, and I mean no place, is worth this. The high price, the reservation woes, the critics afraid to critique - it's a marketing piece designed to make fools fall all over themselves to get in.

JMHO, and I love elegant dining and imaginitive cuisine, but I could not enjoy without feeling guilty, or almost sinful. If I had that kind of spare change, I'd rather try to do something of more substance. Even for myself, never mind something more altruistic.

I'm sure you can find just as heavenly food, service, & atmosphere at half that price at many, many other fine dining rooms. It's the "unattainable" that makes this so appealing. C'mon people, you know where that money is going within 24 hours!

Patrick

Dreamer 2, I'm curious where you draw the line. Do you feel equally guilty when you spend $20 for a meal knowing there are millions in the world who are starving? It's all relative, you know, because there are millions in the world who think you are ridiculous to spend $20 for a meal. When a person makes 5 to 10 times or more what you make (and I don't mean that to be a personal insult, but unless you own Walmart there are thousands out there who DO earn a whole lot more) then when they spend $500 on a meal for two, it is no more extravagant than your spending a fraction of that amount. Granted French Laundry is not for the person of average means! But if you think that there are places that cost a fourth of that amount that are "just as good" then you're sadly mistaken. No, maybe it isn't worth it to you, but it is to many others. Why is that a problem for you, and why does it make you fell better to try to convince yourself that these people are being taken advantage of? Are you also one of those people who say that a $500 bottle of wine really is no better than a $20 bottle, and that anybody who buys such expensive wine is being "taken"?

LDLee

Patrick, never argue with a fool, people won't be able to tell the difference. Your point is wasted on someone who has already made up their mind Dreamer 2 doesn't respect your right to make your own choices on how you spend your money. (Down here, we call that communism) They forget the adage "judge not, lest ye be judged."

I am surprised it took this long for someone to post that they would never spend so much money on dining out.

If the French Laundy is a "marketing piece designed to make fools fall all over themselves to get in", then I am one such fool. It's been three years since we visited. What a great experience. I want to go back, price be damned.

cyberUK

I must say that it has been 3 years since I visited the French Laundry.

The meal is as fresh in my mind as if it were 3 days ago.

It is that good.

My bill was just about $1000 (for four)
I have eaten HUNDREDS of $100 meals since then, that are completely forgettable.

IMHO, that is value

Dreamer2

Patrick,
It is relative, and yes, I do cringe when I see how my kids treat $20!

And, yes, I can see how people making a few million bucks a year would not think twice. I realize it does not affect their budget whatsoever, or even put a blip on their radar. But, since that is such a small percentage of the public, and since I doubt they all post here, I am amazed that so many people of more "average" means are willing to drop it all in one place. If the buzz created about any trend is able to convince so many to splurge so decadently, perhaps many beyond their means, I become suspicious of the substance of the product. If the statement above is true regarding FL pocketing the gratuities, I have even more suspicions!

By the way, I didn't say a "fourth" the amount, but a "half." No, a $75 meal isn't likely to be as wonderful as a $300 one; but a $150 one will come very close. And most of us really couldn't distinguish between a $250 bottle of wine vs $500, either. Lest you think I've experienced none of the above, let me assure you my "youth" enjoyed certain extravagances. But I have come to a point in my life that I can reach nirvana without wild excess. And I have never had a $250 meal (pp) that outdid any I've had for $125/150 - just based on personal experience. If I have to go to $500 to please my palate, I'll do without.

The one thing people have said here that could make that kind of extravagance worthwhile in MY mind is that they will always cherish the memory of the experience. There are certain things money can't buy, but if someone has a certain memory of a special time with someone important in his/her life, I can relate. I just hope they didn't mortgage the dog to get it, or get stuck with the champagne-puking waiter.

I just hope people "will respect my right to make my own choices on how I spend my money;" as I said earlier, it's just my humble opinion. Some may think I'm ignorant. I just think I'm a bit intolerant of gouging the public. I think some people should look in the mirror as they repeat certain adages!