I have the following itinerary for our trip 2/16-2/24...please let me know what you think. All of your suggestions have been invaluable in planning our trip! Thanks so much!!!

Day 1: Arrive Phoenix mid-am; see Walnut Canyon & Sunset Crater; travel on to Williams where our first night will be in a caboose at The Canyon Motel.

Day 2: Travel to GC to stay at Thunderbird Lodge.

Day 3: Down the Canyon to stay at Phantom Ranch.

Day 4: Back up the Canyon and then to Cameron & the night at Cameron Trading Post. If aches & pains permit Wupatki.

Day 5: Drive to Monument Valley (Gouldings). Sunset or Mystery Valley tour with Simpson's?

Day 6: Drive to 4 Corners for my daughters' photo op with 4-corners disc then to Mesa Verde. Only Spruce Tree House & Mesa Loop Rd open. Will stay somewhere in Cortez. Any suggestions after Mesa Verde since won't be able to see much?

Day 7: Canyon de Chelley where we'll stay at Thunderbird Lodge.

Day 8: Staying at Wigwam Hotel in Holbrook. Hope to stop at Hubbell's Trading Post. Anything else?

Day 9: On the way back to Phx stop at Meteor Crater before catching early evening flight home.

We should have the rental car by noon on our first day and have a 5:00 pm flight out our last. Which are must sees: Montezuma's Castle, Sunset Crater, Walnut Canyon, Wupatki, Meteor Crater? (Since most of Mesa Verde is closed I would like the girls to be able to see/walk through ruins.)

Thanks again everyone for your help!

Sounds like a great trip kargirls, I know you've put a lot of thought and research into it, your girls are going to love it.

Bookmarking with great interest in the reply's to... "Which are must sees: Montezuma's Castle, Sunset Crater, Walnut Canyon, Wupatki, Meteor Crater? "

I've been to all the places you're going to and are asking about, so let me give my 1.75 cents [I can't afford to give more than that :^)].
Anyway, unless you are VERY interested in prehistoric native ruins, one site is probably as good as the next; and I really can't recommend seeing more than one. I'd make a decision based on ease of getting to, which probably means Wupatki.

> I would like the girls to be able to
> see/walk through ruins

Be aware that WALKING through or near ruins is strictly forbidden.

There isn't much to see or do at Sunset Crater -- you see a volcanic cinder cone as you drive by, but you can't hike on or near it.
The Barringer Meteor Crater is a very impressive site, but it has two drawbacks: (1) you can only view it from the overlooks and (2) since it is privately owned, admissions are expensive compared to national parks.

Thanks FLmom-I've almost reached my planning saturation point!

Thanks Paul-Can you tell me how long Wupatki might take to see please? Do you have a suggestion for Sunset vs. Mystery Valley tours at Monument Valley?

Thanks again!

kargirls - I suggested you combine Sunset Crater and Wupatki by doing the loop drive through both of them because they are quite close together. I would not recommend driving to Sunset on Day 1, and going back to Wupatki on Day 4 unless you really have time to kill. Do them together, or just pick one, but don't do both of them on separate days.

I doubt that Walnut Canyon, Wupatki or Montezuma Castle will measure up to Mesa Verde. I recommended Sunset Crater because it is quite different from anything else you'll be seeing. You'll see old lava flows and cinders covering everything, and to me that was pretty interesting in to see in that area.

It's difficult to give a timeframe for how long it will take to visit a park. I think Montezuma is generally under an hour, and if you don't get out to walk around at Sunset you can drive through it to Wupatki in probably 30-45 minutes. Same goes for Wupatki - if you don't stop to walk around, the drive through would be maybe 45 minutes. But, I don't know why you wouldn't stop to walk around - you won't see much from the car, so it's really up to you to decide how much time you can allot to it if you decide to go there.

You may enjoy a visit to Petrified Forest Nat'l Park near Holbrook on day 8. This page will give you some suggestions for an itinerary based on differing amounts of time available: http://www.nps.gov/pefo/planyourvisit/things2do.htm

As for this comment, I must strongly disagree and caution people from making such strong statements unless they are absolutely sure that their info is correct:
<<Be aware that WALKING through or near ruins is strictly forbidden.>>

The trail at Walnut Canyon goes right next to some ruins, and it is possible to walk among them to a certain extent. Simply look at the photo on this page to gauge how close you're allowed: http://www.nps.gov/waca/planyourvisit/island-trail.htm

Similarly, the trails at Wupatki do go right next to the ruins, and it is allowed to walk into them at some points. In no instance should you walk on top of the ruins/walls, lean on them, sit on them, etc. but it is not "strictly forbidden" to walk through or near them. I have no personal knowledge of the rules pertaining to Mesa Verde so I cannot speak to that.

I have to disagree with PaulRabe, I think that there is a lot of difference in the ruins you plan to visit. You can walk among some of the ruins at Wupatki. You won't walk though the ruins per say at Spruce Tree but you are close enough to see inside the ruins. In the summer, during the guided tours of Cliff House, Long House & Balcony house...you are taken thought the ruins. Of all the ones you are going to visit, Walnut stands out the least in my memory and I've been to all of these and more. I find each one very interesting. Since you are going at such an unpredictable time of the year for weather, I'd go visit any ruins you can...just in case you can't make it to others.

If you have time, take a guide Navajo tour into Canyon de Chelly. Even if you don't, they have a hike down to White House Ruins.

Utahtea

My apologies. I debated whether to add the word "near" in describing how close you can get to ruins, but decided to add it as a means to say you couldn't get close enough to touch them. Obviously my use of the word was wrong; you can indeed get "near" them, even go inside them. In my visits to these places, I've been close enough to get some excellent photos, even close enough to feel as if I were a part of them. Just wanted to make certain you knew you couldn't touch them. Sorry for my misuse of the word "near."

We did a trip like the following a few years back

trip 1 (12 days): Vegas/Zion/Grand Canyon (North Rim)/Glen Canyon/Antelope Canyon/Navajo/Monument Valley/Hovenweep/Mesa Verda/Canyon De Chelly/Petrified Forests/Walnut Canyon/Sunset Crater/Wupakti

I would suggest to check out Antelope Canyon as well. Although we had to pay, it was great.

Alpaca (http://www.visualmapper.com)

Thanks everyone! TheWeasal-Just by looking at the map I thought there was a greater distance between Sunset and Wupatki. Thanks for your gentle nudge-I'm adding them both to the first day.

PaulRabe-no need to apologize. All the information everyone gives is great.

But, I have another question....DH is starting to think this itinerary is a "little" amibitious. Since most of Mesa Verde is closed should we skip it all together and add another night somewhere else? If so, where? Or as Utahtea mentioned about the weather, plan to see everything and let the weather dictate?

Thanks so much!

Sounds like a great trip. I would definitely keep Mesa Verde in there. Most folks only see one of those ruins anyway when everything is open.

Have dinner in Durango.

I'd pick Meteor Crater of those you listed. I love Meteor Crater - although not everyone does.

We were glad we stayed at the Best Western in Chinle (rather than the Thunderbird). We went on a private tour on CdeC with a guide - reservations made by the front desk person. We were REALLY glad we had the private tour.

starrsville,

Mind telling me how much the private tour at Canyon de Chelly costs and how long were you gone? Did you go out to Spider Rock? Thanks.

Utahtea

I'll pull up my trip report. I think we figured out it was about $15 more for the two of us than riding in the "Shake and Bake".

Nope, didn't get to Spider Rock.

There had been a lot of rain recently and the bottom of the canyon earned its name as a "wash". We were pleased with what we saw - and loved our guide!

I'M SO GLAD TO SEE YOU BACK ON THE BOARDS, UTAHTEA! You've been missed.

Yep, $15 more than the tour out of the Thunderbird.

I topped my trip report, but here are excerpts from the Chinle section

FINALLY pull into the Chinle Best Western. Friendly service. The desk clerk called the restaurant and asked them to stay open for us. We ordered from the "Navajo" portion of the menu. The rooms were very nice. Newly redecorated. Big, roomy. Absolutely no complaints.

Tomorrow - Canyon de Chelly - the reason for the cross-country drive!

Author: starrsville
Date: 08/07/2006, 09:51 pm
I think I'm talking to myself, but maybe this will be helpful to someone down the road once it's in the archives.

Author: starrsville
Date: 08/07/2006, 09:52 pm
Canyon de Chelly

I decided to go here because Utahtea said I should. During the long drive across AZ, Sister kept asking, "Now, WHO said we should see this place?"

This was the one part of the trip I felt "iffy" about. Just didn't feel good about showing up at the Thunderbird Lodge to find a guide. Was a bit worried about leaving the car there. Didn't want Sister to know about my misgivings.

As we waited in the lobby to check in, I picked up some tour brochures. The desk clerk asked if we were interested in a tour. I was a bit skeptical - but no more than I was about picking up a tour at the Thunderbird.

The price for a private tour was $125 with a pickup at our hotel - vs. a group tour from the Thunderbird for $55 each. We told her to arrange the tour.

When we arrived at the lobby at the scheduled time after our breakfast, we were met by the most charming Navajo young woman. I won't mention her name, because she is about to go back to university. We had one of the best tour guides I have ever experienced.

She took us out in a Jeep Wagonneer. So glad not to be out in an open air jeep!

At the first stop, we were SO GLAD we weren't on the group tour. She called the vehicle the "SHAKE AND BAKE" and the title fit! Rows of open seats high on the bed of a truck. The guests looked absolutely miserable.

We also saw a family on a horseback riding tour. For a three hour tour, in the bottom of the canyon, I would opt out.

There had been lots of rain and the canyon floor (actually a wash) was deeply rutted with very loose sand outside the established tire tracks. We saw someone driving their own SUV. No way! Because of the rain, there were mosquitos at the first two stops. Again, so glad we were in an enclosed vehicle.

Canyon de Chelly was magnificent. The 3 hour tour in the canyon is really the way to see it. Petroglyphs. Pictographs. Remnants of Ancient Ones or Ancestrals (not Anasazi anymore). Hopi. Navajo. The Long Walk. Tecumsah Sherman. Stories of her clan, past and present. Stories about being a modern Navajo woman. Stories about the Spainards. The stories of the canyon. I could go on and on - and I'm sure the readers are glad I'm refraining

Just a fabulous experience all around.

Thank you Utahtea for praising CdeC.

On to the last night of the vacation part of the trip - Holbrook and the Wigwam Motel!

Can you book private tours at the Thunderbird (CdeC) or can you only do group tours?

Thanks!
Kargirls

I do not know. The thing that made me nervous while planning the trip was that I couldn't find any online booking for canyon tours at CdeC. The entire drive cross state from Page, I was silently worried that I was dragging my sister to Chinle and there would be a glitch. I never let her know though. It was the only part of the trip that remained unbooked and I was unsure of.

I think there's a link to that company's website on my report (the one I used). There are a lot of restrictions. CdeC is a National Park on Native American land and guides have to be certified but work out of different locations.

I do know that we were pleased with our experience.

http://www.tseyijeeptour.com/Index.html

kargirls,

Wanted to let you know that we survived our second mule trip to Phantom Ranch.

Had a FABULOUS time!!
Snowing on the way down, sunny at P.R. (mid to hi 40s)

FYI - Due to trail maintenance on the South Kaibab Trail, the trip back up to the rim was back up the Bright Angel Trail. (Will probably be the same for your trip - not sure how long its going to take them).

Make sure you wear warm clothing - it was only 25 degrees at Indian Gardens on the way up, and most of the Bright Angel Trail is shady at that time of year (not sure about February).

I would do the Sunset tour at Monument Valley.

We went there after the mule ride and did the full day tour (Mystery Valley and Monument Valley).

Have a great trip!

Gilbert

Thanks Gilbert!!! The girls and I were talking about you this morning on the way to school; wondering when you would make it home. My 10 y/o was so impressed that you would come all the way from Alaska to see the Canyon AND ride the mules.

Santa left both videos that you suggested. We all watched the other night--all I sensed was excitement, no fear. A huge relief!

Thanks for the advice on Monument Valley and the warm clothes.

One more question...what options are there for breakfast the morning of the mule ride? I wasn't sure how early things opened or if I needed to have breakfast foods to make sure the girls ate before the ride.

Thanks starrsville for the CdeC tour link. I'll give them a call tomorrow!

Thanks!
kargirls

Maswik cafeteria opens at 6am. Not sure if that's enough time before the mule ride because I don't know what time the ride starts (although I suspect not until after sunrise, so you should have plenty of time to eat beforehand).

kargirls,

Show up time at the stone corral is 7.45am, although on our latest trip, most of the other riders and even the mules didn't show up until 8am. If it's cold and/or snowy, we were told at the Bright Angel Travel desk that we could wait in the lobby of Bright Angel Lodge.

This trip we ate breakfast in our room -DH had oatmeal, yoghurt, dried fruit and a raisin bran cereal bar, and I had cereal, yoghurt and dried fruit. We were staying at El Tovar, they had hot water, tea and coffee on the mezzanine floor.

On the first trip we ate in the restaurant at El Tovar.
I just checked the web site and it says that Bright Angel Restaurant and the El Tovar open at 6.30 am, but I would check with them just to make sure.

If they are not "big eaters", cereal, yoghurt, fruit, breakfast bars would do just fine.
Don't forget to take extra apples for the mules.
Our guides this trip were Doug and Dusty and our mules were Johnson and Zug Zug. Although on the return trip Johnson was having a "hissy fit" so Dusty ended up switching mules, so DH ended riding Sam on the way up.

On the morning of the ride out, someone had unchained the corral and Johnson had got loose and was running around Phantom Ranch, headed for the canteen.
Dusty finally managed to round him up (with the help of a couple of hikers), but when DH went to mount up, Johnson wouldn't let anyone near him - he was really skittish - biting and kicking.
So Dusty ended up swapping his mule, Sam, for Johnson.

Make sure you walk around when you get off the mule (you won't feel like it - your knees will be really sore), but it will help.

Your whole trip sounds great - can I come too?!!!

Gilbert