Explain this tourist unfriendly policy....
Dec 10th, 2007, 02:06 PM
#42
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Neo - if a customer disputes a cc charge, the merchant must produce a signed receipt if the charge is more than $25. Not possible for pump transactions. I gather that knowing this, a lot of "honorable" citizens have been disputing the charges. Now the merchant can say that it is not an error in the machine etc as you inputed your zip.
Let me restate that if you have a foreign Visa or MC, no numbers will work!
As for leaving your card with a gas station attendant, not something I do.
Of course, the solution that some countries have adopted is the PIN credit card.
Let me restate that if you have a foreign Visa or MC, no numbers will work!
As for leaving your card with a gas station attendant, not something I do.
Of course, the solution that some countries have adopted is the PIN credit card.
Dec 10th, 2007, 02:09 PM
#43
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I believe that if it's an international cc, the system doesn't care what 5 digits you put in - it KNOWS that the card is not a US card, and since it can't connect to the foreign cc's bank database, it doesn't worry about what you enter.
However, when you use a US cc, the machine connects to the cc's bank database and verifies whether the zip code matches the billing address on the card.
It is used in place of looking at your driver license as a prevention of fraud. It's going to be effective in some instances and not in others.
However, when you use a US cc, the machine connects to the cc's bank database and verifies whether the zip code matches the billing address on the card.
It is used in place of looking at your driver license as a prevention of fraud. It's going to be effective in some instances and not in others.
Dec 10th, 2007, 02:15 PM
#44
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I don't agree with the premise that it's tourist unfriendly - esp. if any code will work.
Even if any 5 digit code would not work for non-US patrons, I still think that, on balance, it's a better policy. Gas is expensive and increasingly attractive to steal. It's also really easy to steal with a stolen credit card, because it can fly under the radar of CC companies' fraud detection (unless there are many transactions in a really short period). Tourists are generally a fraction of the patrons at gas stations. I get that the airports should be more tourist-friendly, but not gas stations.
Card theft and identity theft are real, and the more that's done to make it harder and to minimize problems for the victims, the better. My husband had his identity stolen several years ago, and there are still accounts opened here and there in his name, and getting them closed (esp. if they're at collection agencies) can be really time-consuming. Anything that can make use of a stolen card more difficult is good. If the CC companies can't mitigate their fraud losses, the public will end up paying more in the long run (just like the costs of insurance fraud are passed on to the public in premiums).
Even if any 5 digit code would not work for non-US patrons, I still think that, on balance, it's a better policy. Gas is expensive and increasingly attractive to steal. It's also really easy to steal with a stolen credit card, because it can fly under the radar of CC companies' fraud detection (unless there are many transactions in a really short period). Tourists are generally a fraction of the patrons at gas stations. I get that the airports should be more tourist-friendly, but not gas stations.
Card theft and identity theft are real, and the more that's done to make it harder and to minimize problems for the victims, the better. My husband had his identity stolen several years ago, and there are still accounts opened here and there in his name, and getting them closed (esp. if they're at collection agencies) can be really time-consuming. Anything that can make use of a stolen card more difficult is good. If the CC companies can't mitigate their fraud losses, the public will end up paying more in the long run (just like the costs of insurance fraud are passed on to the public in premiums).
Dec 10th, 2007, 02:29 PM
#46
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<<The policy has nothing to do with "Card theft and identity theft".>>
Apparently the first place a person takes a stolen credit card to is a gas station. Why? Because they can easily test to see if it's been reported stolen or not WITHOUT having to deal with a person. They drive up, run it through the machine and if it works, they fill up their tank and head out to spend as much as they can in as little time as possible. If it doesn't work, they leave and toss the card.
No witnesses, no one trying to take the card away, etc.
Apparently the first place a person takes a stolen credit card to is a gas station. Why? Because they can easily test to see if it's been reported stolen or not WITHOUT having to deal with a person. They drive up, run it through the machine and if it works, they fill up their tank and head out to spend as much as they can in as little time as possible. If it doesn't work, they leave and toss the card.
No witnesses, no one trying to take the card away, etc.
Dec 10th, 2007, 02:41 PM
#47
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There are many gas stations here in Ohio that require the zip code. I do not mind entering my zipcode it takes less than 10 seconds.
However at a station last week, I swiped my card and the reader said see attendant. I went inside and the attendant said that if you have used your card ANYWHERE in the last 24 hrs you will have to come inside. It is a new antifraud measure. I told her I would stop shopping there.
However at a station last week, I swiped my card and the reader said see attendant. I went inside and the attendant said that if you have used your card ANYWHERE in the last 24 hrs you will have to come inside. It is a new antifraud measure. I told her I would stop shopping there.
Dec 10th, 2007, 02:45 PM
#49
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toed - exactly...except if the card was stolen, a purse or wallet was also stolen. Who among us has not got a record of their zip in their wallet and purse.
And, as I mentioned above, the company told me that they instituted the policy for one reason... to counteract challenges from the (crooked) credit card owners.
And, as I mentioned above, the company told me that they instituted the policy for one reason... to counteract challenges from the (crooked) credit card owners.
Dec 10th, 2007, 02:50 PM
#50
What we found unusual when we visited the US earlier this year was the fact when we used our Visa card we never had to sign anything or put in a pin number. We thought it was very strange.
Here in NZ we either have to enter a pin number when we use our card, or sign the paperwork and our signature is checked against the card. We specifically got pin numbers before we went on our trip thinking that would be the norm in the US. Didn't prove to be the case.
Here in NZ we either have to enter a pin number when we use our card, or sign the paperwork and our signature is checked against the card. We specifically got pin numbers before we went on our trip thinking that would be the norm in the US. Didn't prove to be the case.
Dec 10th, 2007, 02:50 PM
#51
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I think card issuers are trying to check up on gas purchases more. We purchased gas for three vehicles the same morning and got a call from our card issuer to verify it. We normally never would do that and their computer picked up the pattern.
I also would not leave my card with the attendant in the station. If both of you are there, one should wait inside with the card. If there is just one of you, I would ask them for the card back or ask them to pump the gas. It's the least they can do for your inconvenience.
I also would not leave my card with the attendant in the station. If both of you are there, one should wait inside with the card. If there is just one of you, I would ask them for the card back or ask them to pump the gas. It's the least they can do for your inconvenience.
Dec 10th, 2007, 03:04 PM
#52
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Robjame - not ALL credit card theft is from stolen wallets or purses.
Some is simply stealing the number of the credit card. Some is forgetting your card in a store (you'd be amazed how often that happens). Some is someone "forgetting" to hand your card back to you in a store. Some is making a copy of the card (photo, etc.) and then using the information to create a "fake" card.
So, that's why earlier I said that "It's going to be effective in some instances and not in others."
Also remember that when it's a new process, it will catch more people. Even if they stole the wallet, a lot of thieves don't know that they will need to know the billing zip code to use the card. So, they toss the wallet with the zip code out. They go to the gas station and they don't have the info. They didn't know they were going to need it.
As the system gets older, the thieves will get better at getting around it, but for a while, it's fairly effective.
Some is simply stealing the number of the credit card. Some is forgetting your card in a store (you'd be amazed how often that happens). Some is someone "forgetting" to hand your card back to you in a store. Some is making a copy of the card (photo, etc.) and then using the information to create a "fake" card.
So, that's why earlier I said that "It's going to be effective in some instances and not in others."
Also remember that when it's a new process, it will catch more people. Even if they stole the wallet, a lot of thieves don't know that they will need to know the billing zip code to use the card. So, they toss the wallet with the zip code out. They go to the gas station and they don't have the info. They didn't know they were going to need it.
As the system gets older, the thieves will get better at getting around it, but for a while, it's fairly effective.
Dec 10th, 2007, 03:40 PM
#53
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I totally agree... in fact, MANY credit cards are fraudulently used without ever having seen any other information about the victim.
In the past year I have found THREE credit cards. All at the pharmacy drive through.
It's like people get their medicine out of the box and forget about the card.
If I had been a dishonest person, I could have run across the street to the Exxon and filled my tank.
My daughter has found many cards in her retail jobs... dropped and kicked under the little ledge by the register.
In the past I have found a 50 pound note and a 100.00 bill on the floor near registers.
Kids and people at parties or other events where people are watching their purse too well have been known to slip cash or credit cards out of wallets and using them before the victim even notices.
There are so many examples I could go on and on...
In the past year I have found THREE credit cards. All at the pharmacy drive through.
It's like people get their medicine out of the box and forget about the card.
If I had been a dishonest person, I could have run across the street to the Exxon and filled my tank.
My daughter has found many cards in her retail jobs... dropped and kicked under the little ledge by the register.
In the past I have found a 50 pound note and a 100.00 bill on the floor near registers.
Kids and people at parties or other events where people are watching their purse too well have been known to slip cash or credit cards out of wallets and using them before the victim even notices.
There are so many examples I could go on and on...
Dec 10th, 2007, 03:48 PM
#54
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I can tell you first hand as a business owner (although not a gas station) and having 85% of our business oversees, it is for fraud protection. We process eurpoean credit card payments. If someone uses a stolen credit card the merchant is responsible....the money is extracted directly out of your checking account by the credit card processing company without warning or notice. The victim of fraud does not pay, the credit card processor does not pay, so it is up to the merchant to enforce some kind of protection.
So I would say someone IS thinking!
So I would say someone IS thinking!
Dec 20th, 2007, 05:51 AM
#55
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<<So I would say someone IS thinking!>>
A little follow up to this...
We thought that we had found a solution to our particular problem...
A Visa gift card is being sold all over, even at Hess stations, called the Visa Vanilla Card. You put a certain amount of money on it and the recipient can use it anywhere a Visa Card can be used.
Great we thought....
We will buy one at the neighborhood Hess station, put $100 on it, keep it for ourselves and use it at the pumps (probably good for two visits these days).
Not so fast - even though these are sold at gas stations, are paid for in advance, THEY CANNOT BE USED AT THE PUMPS.
... and you really think that
"... someone IS thinking!"
A little follow up to this...
We thought that we had found a solution to our particular problem...
A Visa gift card is being sold all over, even at Hess stations, called the Visa Vanilla Card. You put a certain amount of money on it and the recipient can use it anywhere a Visa Card can be used.
Great we thought....
We will buy one at the neighborhood Hess station, put $100 on it, keep it for ourselves and use it at the pumps (probably good for two visits these days).
Not so fast - even though these are sold at gas stations, are paid for in advance, THEY CANNOT BE USED AT THE PUMPS.
... and you really think that
"... someone IS thinking!"
Dec 20th, 2007, 07:20 AM
#56
I have experienced this irritant for the first time two years ago in California. My credit card is issued by Canadian institution and I am one of 5.7 billion people that don't have a zip code, but do like to visit the States as often as possible.
Any merchant that uses this method of fraud prevention, especially at an international destination is, to put it politely, shortsighted.
Fortunately, this method seems to be falling out of favor. Northern NY, NH, VT, and, I am guessing, all border states, are smart enough to know on which side their bread is buttered, and don't use the zip code nonsense.
I love the States, but sometimes they annoy me so.
Mark
Any merchant that uses this method of fraud prevention, especially at an international destination is, to put it politely, shortsighted.
Fortunately, this method seems to be falling out of favor. Northern NY, NH, VT, and, I am guessing, all border states, are smart enough to know on which side their bread is buttered, and don't use the zip code nonsense.
I love the States, but sometimes they annoy me so.
Mark
Dec 20th, 2007, 10:21 AM
#57
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"Not so fast - even though these are sold at gas stations, are paid for in advance, THEY CANNOT BE USED AT THE PUMPS.
... and you really think that
"... someone IS thinking!" "
So now we come right down to it. You will find any excuse to complain about having to actually go in and see the attendant. Can't people WALK in Canada?
... and you really think that
"... someone IS thinking!" "
So now we come right down to it. You will find any excuse to complain about having to actually go in and see the attendant. Can't people WALK in Canada?
Dec 20th, 2007, 10:24 AM
#58
Oh, come on, "California" is an international destination? It may be that, but it is also home to 36 million people. That is more than in the whole country of Canada.
Some significant percentage of that 36 million is going to be up to no good.
Then there are millions of other people, outside of California, who have U.S. zip codes. Over one-quarter of a billion of them (8 more Canadas) and there are millions of them visiting California every year.
Some significant percentage of that 36 million is going to be up to no good.
Then there are millions of other people, outside of California, who have U.S. zip codes. Over one-quarter of a billion of them (8 more Canadas) and there are millions of them visiting California every year.
Dec 20th, 2007, 10:29 AM
#59
cdnyul,
Anything that prevents/reduces fraud/theft is an improvement in my book. The extra effort is worth it.
Last year some of my relatives from Canada came for their annual visit. When the pump asked for a zip code I told them to just enter mine.
They then were able to pump gas. I imagine all you do is enter any zip code and the computer knows which cards to verify and which to ignore based on the issue location.
What I think would be more effective would be to have each person create a PIN that they enter via the internet.
That PIN would link to the card and disallow the card being used regardless of whether you have a zip code or not.
That could also be expanded for use at stores as well. I'm sure fraudulent purchases would be reduced by billions.
Anything that prevents/reduces fraud/theft is an improvement in my book. The extra effort is worth it.
Last year some of my relatives from Canada came for their annual visit. When the pump asked for a zip code I told them to just enter mine.
They then were able to pump gas. I imagine all you do is enter any zip code and the computer knows which cards to verify and which to ignore based on the issue location.
What I think would be more effective would be to have each person create a PIN that they enter via the internet.
That PIN would link to the card and disallow the card being used regardless of whether you have a zip code or not.
That could also be expanded for use at stores as well. I'm sure fraudulent purchases would be reduced by billions.
Dec 20th, 2007, 12:32 PM
#60
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It is kind of funny to complain about actually having to go inside and pay for your gas when your credit card doesn't work (perhaps because of the zip code issue). How long has it been since we ALL had to go inside? How quickly we become spoiled.
