Driving in San Francisco?
Jul 26th, 2001, 10:34 AM
#22
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Chez Panisse is in Berkeley. The two favorites in Oakland are Bay Wolf and Oliveto. For those of you really interested in visiting Oakland check the Dockside Boat and Bed where you can stay on a beautiful boat. Some can actually be chartered for a trip before bedtime. www.boatandbed.com Nearby is the SS Potomas, FKR's old yacht that takes cruises from Jack London Square or you can take a gondola ride in Lake Merritt. Oakland has a lot to offer, but most hearts are left in San Francisco!
Jul 26th, 2001, 11:30 AM
#23
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Daniel,
once u get to hell, there will be no more room forthe rest of us. By the way, Im happy with my Lexus,thanks anyway.
Anyway,
I dont think Oaklanders really care if we leave our hearts there or not. I live in Walnut Creek and have for 14 years. I have seen Oakland gussy itself up a lot. The downtown is more exciting now than when I first moved here and my husband and I are thinking of moving to Oakland, somewhere in the hills would be nice. Anyway, driving in the city is a headache waiting to happen. I suggest BART or Muni. Napa however might require a car.
once u get to hell, there will be no more room forthe rest of us. By the way, Im happy with my Lexus,thanks anyway.
Anyway,
I dont think Oaklanders really care if we leave our hearts there or not. I live in Walnut Creek and have for 14 years. I have seen Oakland gussy itself up a lot. The downtown is more exciting now than when I first moved here and my husband and I are thinking of moving to Oakland, somewhere in the hills would be nice. Anyway, driving in the city is a headache waiting to happen. I suggest BART or Muni. Napa however might require a car.
Jul 26th, 2001, 11:47 AM
#25
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Thanks to allof you for your responses.Youve all been very helpful and have even gotten us more excited about our trip to San Francisco.
Daniel,
Hatred and Ignorance go hand in hand. I think you need to accept people for who they are and not what you want them to be! The Lord said for us to Love one another, not hate one another.
Daniel,
Hatred and Ignorance go hand in hand. I think you need to accept people for who they are and not what you want them to be! The Lord said for us to Love one another, not hate one another.
Jul 26th, 2001, 11:50 AM
#26
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I wrote a joke a long tme ago when I first moved to the Bay Area, and had to drive around S.F. "In San Franciso, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do."
The joke is actually a bit tangential, and is based on the fact I quickly discovered, that the best way to make a left turn in the city was to make three right turns. Pass by the street you want to make a left onto and turn right at the next street, going back around the block, to your street of interest.
Although no one is quite ready to believe that I made this joke up, over the years I have heard it occasionally repeated. I knew I had started something, however, when a I heard it repeated a few years back by a radio station in the Seattle area.
The joke is actually a bit tangential, and is based on the fact I quickly discovered, that the best way to make a left turn in the city was to make three right turns. Pass by the street you want to make a left onto and turn right at the next street, going back around the block, to your street of interest.
Although no one is quite ready to believe that I made this joke up, over the years I have heard it occasionally repeated. I knew I had started something, however, when a I heard it repeated a few years back by a radio station in the Seattle area.
Jul 26th, 2001, 12:02 PM
#27
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The funny thing about your joke is that its true! 3 lefts make a right in San Francisco-what a trip-I never thought about it. Im probably gonna test out your theory when I drive home after work from the financial district onto the bay bridge-Thanks
Jul 26th, 2001, 12:06 PM
#28
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Daniel your fisrt (troll) post was borderline acceptable.
But you lost it with the subsequent posts.
Ya gotta have the discipline to hold the line and string people along better, buddy!
When you let loose and expose your troll intentions it cancels out all the points you get for a good, covert beginning.
You blew it.
Amateur stuff.
Try again soon, OK?
But you lost it with the subsequent posts.
Ya gotta have the discipline to hold the line and string people along better, buddy!
When you let loose and expose your troll intentions it cancels out all the points you get for a good, covert beginning.
You blew it.
Amateur stuff.
Try again soon, OK?
Jul 26th, 2001, 12:15 PM
#29
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Kenneth, I think you've had enough advice about driving in SF to make up your mind, but my two cents is: take a shuttle into SF from SFO, rent a car for the wine country, and take BART--a very quick and easy hop--to Oakland.
As for the Oakland issue, my advice is: ignore Kam. She and I agree on many things regarding visiting the Bay Area, but I have never seen her say anything except "forget Oakland, it's not worth your time." Well I grew up in Oakland and return and spend time there very frequently, and the point is that Oakland is different than SF and you'll get a different experience there. Oakland Chinatown certainly has a different flavor, and is not at all touristy. There's a wonderful farmers' market--with lots more than produce--at Jack London Square and in Chinatown on Sundays. Obviously you do not need to stay at some cutesy B&B to enjoy exploring this or some parts of Oakland. There are plenty of terrific restaurants in Oakland in Berkeley other than the few mentioned (though they are all very good), and they tend to be more casual and a bit less pricey than ones of equivalent quality in SF. BTW, the Claremont Resort and Spa mentioned above is on the Oakland/Berkeley border in the hills and is nowhere near Chinatown (for which you'd use the 12th St/City Center BART station). None of the restaurants mentioned above (Chez Panisse, Oliveto, Bay Wolf) are near Chinatown either. My point here is that you have to take some of these posts with a grain of salt, because the posters are repeating the conventional wisdom/guidebook lines. There are lots of exciting new restaurants, etc., including in downtown Oakland--whis *is* near Chinatown--but those who passed through once or who advocate avoiding Oakland don't know anything but the same old, same old.
P.S. If Kam tells you that Shadowbrook is "considered the best in the area" when you ask about ypscale Santa Cruz restaurants, ignore her on that count, too!
As for the Oakland issue, my advice is: ignore Kam. She and I agree on many things regarding visiting the Bay Area, but I have never seen her say anything except "forget Oakland, it's not worth your time." Well I grew up in Oakland and return and spend time there very frequently, and the point is that Oakland is different than SF and you'll get a different experience there. Oakland Chinatown certainly has a different flavor, and is not at all touristy. There's a wonderful farmers' market--with lots more than produce--at Jack London Square and in Chinatown on Sundays. Obviously you do not need to stay at some cutesy B&B to enjoy exploring this or some parts of Oakland. There are plenty of terrific restaurants in Oakland in Berkeley other than the few mentioned (though they are all very good), and they tend to be more casual and a bit less pricey than ones of equivalent quality in SF. BTW, the Claremont Resort and Spa mentioned above is on the Oakland/Berkeley border in the hills and is nowhere near Chinatown (for which you'd use the 12th St/City Center BART station). None of the restaurants mentioned above (Chez Panisse, Oliveto, Bay Wolf) are near Chinatown either. My point here is that you have to take some of these posts with a grain of salt, because the posters are repeating the conventional wisdom/guidebook lines. There are lots of exciting new restaurants, etc., including in downtown Oakland--whis *is* near Chinatown--but those who passed through once or who advocate avoiding Oakland don't know anything but the same old, same old.
P.S. If Kam tells you that Shadowbrook is "considered the best in the area" when you ask about ypscale Santa Cruz restaurants, ignore her on that count, too!
Jul 26th, 2001, 01:23 PM
#30
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there is another post on here about the same topic.
Anyhow, we went to SF and rented a car (we went down to carmel for 2 days). I am not sure I would rent one if I were staying in the city. You will likely use cabs a lot, though.
We found the drivers in SF to be almost "too nice," maybe that's because i come from Boston where only the pedestrians are more obnoxious than the drivers. In SF, everyone stops at the stop signs and there is this unspoken drivers' code of civility at intersections. On the highways, drivers in California are the same everywhere; no better, no worse.
Anyhow, we went to SF and rented a car (we went down to carmel for 2 days). I am not sure I would rent one if I were staying in the city. You will likely use cabs a lot, though.
We found the drivers in SF to be almost "too nice," maybe that's because i come from Boston where only the pedestrians are more obnoxious than the drivers. In SF, everyone stops at the stop signs and there is this unspoken drivers' code of civility at intersections. On the highways, drivers in California are the same everywhere; no better, no worse.
Jul 26th, 2001, 01:30 PM
#31
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Oooh, that Caitlan is a nasty one, isn't she? Her opinion differs from Kam, and it is not enough to just make her case. No, she has to tell you to dismiss Kam's advice, offering up the high insult that Kam's advice is from guidebooks, and all in the most condescending tone possible.
Well, I, for one, have never been impressed with Oakland, so I vote with Kam. Caitlan, learn to conduct yourself with more respect for others, will ya?
Well, I, for one, have never been impressed with Oakland, so I vote with Kam. Caitlan, learn to conduct yourself with more respect for others, will ya?
Jul 28th, 2001, 09:41 AM
#32
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Just wanted to drop a few lines on this topic. Ive been in Oakland for 6 months and at first it was because I couldnt afford SF, I could barely afford Oakland for that matter. But after 6 months of Piedmont Avenue and College Avenue, I wouldnt want to live anywhere else. San Franciscans are kinda small-minded when it comes to the rest of the bay. they dont get out a lot and see what else their immediate neighbors have to offer, for fear of being viewed as a traitor to their city on the golden hill, or something really stupid like that- except Napa, which for a 23 year old like myself is a fun as a trip to church. I agree though with the reply that said that Oaklanders dont care if we leave our hearts there or not-That is so true, people here dont give a rats behind( thats my texas-roots talkin)what anyonew thinks-Especially San Franciscans, because everyone knows their dillusional( just look at their Board of Supervisors)-People in the city would probably cry if you didnt join their bandwagon.LOL
Jul 28th, 2001, 10:17 AM
#33
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San Francisco is a gorgeous place. I didnt have trouble driving on the highways. My problem was traffic being to heavy too often. I think renting a car is better than just relying on the bus, although public transit I hear is quite good. When you go, please take in as much local cuisine as you can, the restaurants in san francisco are just stellar- easily on par with new york. I loved this restaurant called Boulevard-just heaven.
As far as Oakland goes, Youll have fun exploring that town also. Its very close to downtown san fran. There are several excellent restaurants in Oakland as well. I guess im just partial to food( after all I was on a restaurant tour). I dont think Oakland is known for food but theres a place called Everett & Jones that is a southern style BBQ near the waterfront that is just great.
All this talk of food is making me hungry. Little Italy beckons-ciao.
As far as Oakland goes, Youll have fun exploring that town also. Its very close to downtown san fran. There are several excellent restaurants in Oakland as well. I guess im just partial to food( after all I was on a restaurant tour). I dont think Oakland is known for food but theres a place called Everett & Jones that is a southern style BBQ near the waterfront that is just great.
All this talk of food is making me hungry. Little Italy beckons-ciao.
Jul 28th, 2001, 11:30 AM
#34
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OakWhat, you've got me and everything else all wrong. I do not suffer from a lack of respect for Kam at all. She gives a lot of terrific advice, most of which I agree wholeheartedly with. She and I both post answers to many of the same threads, as we both know the Bay Area. But she knows lots about many places that I don't, and I don't offer advice on this forum about places I don't know well. Occasionally, Kam has urged people to avoid Oakland, and she has also advised that there are no really nice restaurants in the Santa Cruz area with excellent food. This advice leads me to believe that she doesn't know those areas so well, and I dislike seeing her give misleading advice to those who ask about specific places. I've lived in both Oakland and Santa Cruz. I know that there are charming neighborhoods, nice shops, and excellent restaurants, and a very good museum in Oakland, and that there are some wonderful, upscale restaurants in Santa Cruz. I wouldn't get on this forum and advise people to go out of their way to either place, but when they ask specific questions, I'd prefer for them to get the whole story rather than discouragement from someone who is clearly not as familiar with the area in question and thus does it, and the poster asking, a diservice. It's happened enough times that it bugs me. But if you think that Kam and I are somehow is opposition or unappreciative of one another's contributions here and knowledge in general, you have not read many of the norther California travel queries on this forum.
