travelgourmet

IMDonehere and travelgourmet, please do not bring race and politics into a thread on travel and the impact of Interstates. Thank you.

Why not? The history of the interstates has a lot to do with race and politics in this country.

Of course discrimination can't be condoned, but judging people in the context of 60 years is a bit more complicated than it appears.

I don't disagree one bit. But it is precisely the fact that it is complicated that chafes me when people start waxing poetic about "simpler" or "innocent" times.

A talking donkey? I think most people would be appalled to see such a thing at a gas station today. Interstates have "ruined" travel? Tell that to all the poor that couldn't afford to fuel up a gas hog car and pay $100 per night to stay in a motel for 5 nights on their way to wherever they were going. I'm sure they would prefer to cut that trip to Grandma in half. Cute mom and pop restaurants? Disregarding the fact that food in the '50s was generally awful, I suspect that African Americans of the day had a different opinion about what that drive from Ohio to Florida was like. The nostalgia is for a very narrow, very white, relatively privileged experience.

NeoPatrick

Wow. Thanks for the thunderstorm. I guess your point is that I should be ashamed that I came from the white middle class and I should be ashamed to admit we went as a family to Florida, while you no doubt we're out building homes and serving meals to poor people. Good for you.

Guess what -- hate me if you want, but I am not the least bit ashamed that my father scrimped and saved all year from his meager factory worker job for that two week vacation which was far from deluxe in any way. How proud you must be to put me down for bringing it up. You are a sad and miserable soul. Enjoy your smug comments.

NeoPatrick

By the way, for you to interpret $12 to $14 a night for a motel in the late 50's as "$100 a night" as if today's prices have anything to do with it, and then call such "extravagance" -- "The nostalgia is for a very narrow, very white, relatively privileged experience" as if only very wealthy could do that once a year shows you are far more ignorant than I ever realized.

travelgourmet

I guess your point is that I should be ashamed that I came from the white middle class and I should be ashamed to admit we went as a family to Florida

That isn't the point at all. What I object to is the notion that these "lost" experiences are some sort of loss for the majority of people, when the majority of people likely couldn't afford them in the first place. It is travel snobbery and obnoxious. It is like the people that complain that "nobody dresses up for flying anymore".

for you to interpret $12 to $14 a night for a motel in the late 50's as "$100 a night"

It is equivalent to $100 per night today. It isn't an interpretation.

and then call such "extravagance"

It kind of was. One night in the hotel was something like 0.3% of median household income. A two-week trip would have been something like 4% of median income, just for the hotels!

I should be ashamed to admit we went as a family to Florida

You will note I never said anything of the sort.

while you no doubt we're out building homes and serving meals to poor people

I wasn't born yet. Thank God.

NeoPatrick

."What I object to is the notion that these "lost" experiences are some sort of loss for the majority of people."

Who on earth suggested that. I gave a personal account that applies to me only, and you try to make into some huge economical statement applying to some imagined "minority".

Here's an idea. Why don't YOU tell my story, since you seem to want to interpret it as something totally different from what I meant.

>>
As to your ignorance on the difference of prices for the cheapest roadside motels in the 1950s compared to much nicer ones today -- when you can tell me about motels in the 50's that were actually cheaper, you can let me know. As I've already explained, if people in 1957 needed to spend the night in a motel (even a family of 5) that's what they had to pay, even if it was a larger portion of their vacation budget than it would be today.

>>>>>

As to never saying I should be ashamed of the trip, I'm not so dumb that I don't understand perfectly the purpose of your saying " I suspect that African Americans of the day had a different opinion about what that drive from Ohio to Florida was like. The nostalgia is for a very narrow, very white, relatively privileged experience."

Trust me, I was never considered even by my rural Ohio friends the least bit "privileged".

Sojourntraveller

NeoPatrick, you are feeding the troll. Just put him on you ignore list. I'm sure he's used to being ignored anyway.

IMDonehere

One of the most bizarre things about the old roadside motels and inns was the magic fingers. For an extravagant 25 cents you slipped a coin into a slot and the bed vibrated for a few minutes. As a child, I did not understand the secondary and tertiary uses.

There are few things as amusing on these boards as one anonymous person calling another anonymous someone a troll.

vincenzo32951

Hard to tell who's feeding whom.

NeoPatrick

Oh, come on now, vincenzo. I merely responded originally to what was clearly a nostalgia thread. I gave some memories of childhood road trips. Along comes someone who declares that "nostalgia is a waste of time" (then why was he reading and responding to what was clearly meant as a nostalgia thread?) Instead he felt it was NOT a waste of time to start trashing those memories declaring that someone from a lower middle class family in the 1950s should be ashamed for being so "white and privileged" -- what the hell was the purpose of that?

Sorry I got sucked into this vortex of negativity, Sojourntraveller. And for the record I DID understand that you had nothing against those who expressed that road travel wasn't the greatest back then or nothing against those who think interstates improved road travel. And I DO understand that what bothered you were the negative nasties who thought it more important to try to turn a thread about "nostalgia" into some battleground for policies doing good for the world.

rjasnumberonefan

I, for one, enjoyed all the nostalgia in this thread.

I was a child in the 60's and we did live a simple and innocent life. Trust me, those magic finger beds were not found in hotels for the privileged. They were in motor lodges along the highways/byways. My parents would give us that quarter and we kids had a blast. We had no clue the real purpose. We were innocent. I'm sure any kid today could tell you an earful of what the purpose was and also act it out. SMH.

My dad was a police officer and worked extra duty so that we could have our family vacations. He directed traffic at the Coliseum and stood watch at the entrance to stores. We traveled in a VW camper that he built out of a regular '63 van and stayed in National Parks/Forests where you put a few dollars in a slot on the honor system. It was a rarity to get to spend the night in a motel.

We were more like the 3rd class locked down below on the Titanic rather than those prancing around the deck and having tea, But, boy could we dance and have a good time. I go on trips and spend a fraction of those here on this forum. My memories are just as special.

Oh, by the way, people of all races take vacations. I see them all the time. If your family didn't at least have a picnic in your backyard and call it a vacation, then I feel bad for you. I made sure to give my kids a few memories to think back on in 20 or 30 years when they're waxing poetic on some forum thinking about more innocent times.

Dukey1

"The history of the interstates has a lot to do with race..."

That's an interesting assertion and I'd really like to know exactly what that "lot" really was/is.

Grandma

In the late 40's and 50's I remember chugging along whatever to visit my grandmother. (Guess there's a highway now…) My fun was the Burma Shave signs…. of course they've disappeared with faster travel. My favorite was this one….

Does your husband misbehave

Grunt and grumble

Rant and Rave

Shoot the brute some Burma Shave.

(Amazing what the mind retains -

november_moon

Most of the nostalgia for these trips comes from people who were kids at that time. I wonder what everyone's parents remember about these trips. Sure, it was fun to get up at 4am and sleep in the car until breakfast, waking up miles down the road - I used to love doing that. As an adult, I don't really relish getting up at 4am to drive anywhere. My parents dreaded the early morning departures, but for long drives, we had to do it, especially in the summer. Motels with kitchenettes and mom preparing dinner and lunches for the next day while the kids swim in the motel pool until they turn into prunes - fun for the kids, but for mom? Does mom remember this fondly? When is mom's vacation? My mom stopped camping because she got tired of doing all the stuff she had to do at home, but in more difficult circumstances.

sludick

rjasnumberonefan - thank you for your spot-on comments.

travelgourmet

That's an interesting assertion and I'd really like to know exactly what that "lot" really was/is.

Aside from facilitating white flight?

IMDonehere

After reading TG's allegations, I did a little research instead of either accepting or rejecting his notion in an off-hand manner. I know this contrary and appalling to the general thinking here and will lead to ad hominem attacks as elitist. But such is the world these boards have become.

It seems that notion that the Interstate Highway System was founded in racism is one of modern research and hindsight. It does not seem racism was the intention of Eisenhower and Congress but the venality and bigotry of local politicians. There were many cities where eminent domain was a tool to propagate segregation by strategically placing the highways as a physical barrier to integration. And there are equal number of cases for corruption and misuse of Federal dollars because it is always easier to steal and abuse the disenfranchised.

Like almost all major legislation there are unintended consequences, and some were beneficial and others not.

rjasnumberonefan

november_moon, my memories were from a kids perspective and I have long outlived my parents so I can't get theirs. That said, I can tell you that we did those twice a year vacations from the time I was 4 until I was married. I'm sure if they weren't having a good time we would have quit going like your mother did with camping.

Some people don't like to get up early to face a long drive. Why not chose a shorter destination?

We kids spent hours in the pool, but I remember mom right there with us. Sure, she had to do mom chores (after all it was the 60's) but it was vacation. We had sandwiches on picnics, not fried chicken that she spent hours in a kitchenette preparing while we had fun. We camped, but I wouldn't say mom had it rougher because of the difficult circumstances. It was food we didn't have at home. Canned Bunker Hill Beef, James River BBQ, and (gasp!) Spam. Things that could be kept in the camper with no cooler needed. Hot dogs cooked over the campfire always gave mom a break. When dad caught fish he always did the frying. Mom even got a break from all dishes on vacation because when we camped, there were two plastic dishpans set on the seat of the picnic table where me and my brother were responsible for cleaning up the meals. We could splash water and throw soap bubbles and no one cared because we were outdoors. I think mom enjoyed herself.

vincenzo32951

>>Aside from facilitating white flight?

vincenzo32951

My top 10, btw, and in no particular order:

Federal housing laws
Lending rules
Insurance rules and regs
The automobile (with or w/o Interstates)
Decline of manufacturing
Movement of industries from the cities to the suburbs
Mass movement of blacks from the South to the North
De jure segregation in the South
De facto segregation in the North
Predatory real-estate practices that facilitated "block busting"

Tabernash2

I love Patrick's memories, which resemble mine. My Dad loved road trips, but we mostly stayed within a few hours, driving to a relative's house to visit.

We did drive to Florida one summer, stopping at friends' homes along the way. When we'd look for a motel, it had to have a pool. Which sometimes wasn't easy.

Coincidentally, I was looking through some old family photos the other day, and found one of my brother when he was 2, and our uncle who was 16 at the time. A motel swimming pool is in the background. I was only 1 at the time, and don't know exactly where we were. The walker my brother is in is hilarious-- very complicated-looking metal thing.

When we drove to Florida a couple of times, I remember the two-lane highways, and they were slightly scary. My Dad dreamed of having four lanes for safety. Especially the one time our entire luggage rack flew off the car! We were on a two-lane highway, driving home from Florida, and I recall Dad yelling at us kids to stay in the car. We all wanted to jump out and retrieve our treasures which were strewn all over the road and ditch. Good times. haha

Burma Shave signs!