Confederate Flag & Black Vacationers in MB??
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:21 PM
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Confederate Flag & Black Vacationers in MB??
I really did not want to mention this is in my trip report, so I decided to post this separate. When we last visited Myrtle Beach in 1997, there were not many minority vacationers then (african-americans in particular), however, we did meet those that worked in the area, or visited for the day and they told us that the town was touristy for them, so they go elsewhere for vacations.
I do recall not long ago, on our local radio station that they were asking african americans to not vacation or visit the south, including myrtle beach due to the confederate flag. I am not quick to jump on the bandwagon of racial discrimination as other people of my race are quick to do, however, racial equality is a very important issue to myself and my family. Over the past year or so, I have not heard much more about the issue, but my husband and I did notice a very very small population of minorities in general last week when we were in Myrtle Beach. One particular night we were having drinks and appetizers at Blarney Stones, and a middle-aged white woman from our area, who now lives in MB along with her companion were chatting with us and she said (i'm sure without thinking) "so what are you guys doing here? this is red-neck town", and I said to her, no, this everybody's town, no matter what race, color or creed, and of course she was offended by response, but I didn't care.
I was just baffled by her question, but It made me question whether or not, that issue still remains in the south, and is that the reason, we saw so few minorities there at all....We personally enjoyed our vacation, despite that lack of minorities, and will return again.
All comments welcome
I do recall not long ago, on our local radio station that they were asking african americans to not vacation or visit the south, including myrtle beach due to the confederate flag. I am not quick to jump on the bandwagon of racial discrimination as other people of my race are quick to do, however, racial equality is a very important issue to myself and my family. Over the past year or so, I have not heard much more about the issue, but my husband and I did notice a very very small population of minorities in general last week when we were in Myrtle Beach. One particular night we were having drinks and appetizers at Blarney Stones, and a middle-aged white woman from our area, who now lives in MB along with her companion were chatting with us and she said (i'm sure without thinking) "so what are you guys doing here? this is red-neck town", and I said to her, no, this everybody's town, no matter what race, color or creed, and of course she was offended by response, but I didn't care.
I was just baffled by her question, but It made me question whether or not, that issue still remains in the south, and is that the reason, we saw so few minorities there at all....We personally enjoyed our vacation, despite that lack of minorities, and will return again.
All comments welcome
Jul 28th, 2003, 04:37 PM
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This is either a REALLY long winded troll post or you have very little familiarity with the south.
The stereotypical southern attitudes about certain things aren't going to change in a period of 6 years.
And before anyone rants about the fact that not everyone in the south thinks that way, or that the south is now full of people raised elsewhere, etc etc, I'm referring to the behind closed doors attitudes that will remain for a long time among many (certainly not all) native southerners.
Some will argue about that stereotype--and it is slowly changing for the better--but if you get 10 native Alabama or South Carolina men alone together and let the jokes and stories start flying, you'll more than likely find that the stereotypes are still held.
Southerners would rather that they not be branded this way. And it is unfair to the extent that maybe the majority of native southerners have outgrown those stereotypes during the past 2 generations, but they're still alive and well.
The stereotypical southern attitudes about certain things aren't going to change in a period of 6 years.
And before anyone rants about the fact that not everyone in the south thinks that way, or that the south is now full of people raised elsewhere, etc etc, I'm referring to the behind closed doors attitudes that will remain for a long time among many (certainly not all) native southerners.
Some will argue about that stereotype--and it is slowly changing for the better--but if you get 10 native Alabama or South Carolina men alone together and let the jokes and stories start flying, you'll more than likely find that the stereotypes are still held.
Southerners would rather that they not be branded this way. And it is unfair to the extent that maybe the majority of native southerners have outgrown those stereotypes during the past 2 generations, but they're still alive and well.
Jul 28th, 2003, 05:43 PM
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If you find my post ignorant, then maybe you are the person who is truly ignorant. I am looking for sensible comments on the subject, and thought I would post it here, because of the positive feedback I have received in reference to travel since I have been posting here. I would like to thank all you in advance who do take the time and read this and respond without harsh criticism. If we can't discuss issues like this now, when can we discuss them?
Jul 28th, 2003, 06:11 PM
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I personally think that Myrtle Beach gets a bad rap as being the down-home vacation spot of red necks. That's hogwash!! Myrtle beach is a great place to vacation. There's much going on there all the time and by that I do NOT mean that it's all golf, golf, golf. There are great shows, dinner theaters, parks for youngsters, a great beach, and a couple golf courses for those who need that urge to swing.
But seriously Myrtle Beach has gotten a bad rap for quite awhile and it comes from people who simply say "Why are you here?" Everyone has the right to go there.
I'm also not certain as to where you're going with your post Louise. Did you experience any racial problems (I honestly don't believe the lady was meaning to insult you) while you were there?
As far as the Confederate flag issue goes - the point is moot - who won the war?
But seriously Myrtle Beach has gotten a bad rap for quite awhile and it comes from people who simply say "Why are you here?" Everyone has the right to go there.
I'm also not certain as to where you're going with your post Louise. Did you experience any racial problems (I honestly don't believe the lady was meaning to insult you) while you were there?
As far as the Confederate flag issue goes - the point is moot - who won the war?
Jul 28th, 2003, 06:32 PM
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I am a native of North Carolina and your comments have had me thinking a lot this evening. Unfortunately, racism does still exist in the south, and in my experience it heightens when you get into smaller towns. I believe part of it is education (or lack of) and the lack of interaction with people of other races or any background different from the "locals". I see this in my own relatives who live in rural areas.
Also, I think people who lived in the south in the segregated years still harbor opinions even when they try not to, because it was ingrained in them by their parents and grandparents. Young people of my generation who attended integrated schools in larger cities where we had the opportunity to grow up with friends of different races will hopefully change the tide of thought, but the damage of the past is taking generations to overcome.
On a slight aside, I would recommend that you visit one of the North Carolina beaches on your next visit South! Our beaches are quieter, less crowded, less commercial, and have more of a friendly family feel. I think you will be treated well, but you will still be in a minority in most locations. Best wishes.
Also, I think people who lived in the south in the segregated years still harbor opinions even when they try not to, because it was ingrained in them by their parents and grandparents. Young people of my generation who attended integrated schools in larger cities where we had the opportunity to grow up with friends of different races will hopefully change the tide of thought, but the damage of the past is taking generations to overcome.
On a slight aside, I would recommend that you visit one of the North Carolina beaches on your next visit South! Our beaches are quieter, less crowded, less commercial, and have more of a friendly family feel. I think you will be treated well, but you will still be in a minority in most locations. Best wishes.
Jul 28th, 2003, 06:49 PM
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We were in MB in early july and saw lots of minorities most everywhere we went, including a time share resort sales pitch (hey, we got free tickets to Alligator Adventure, it was worth it!) That includes white, black, hispanic, asian. I noticed how many people were speaking Spanish in lots of places. My husband's uncle and aunt live in north Myrtle Beach and commented how during Bike Week - motorcycles that is, around Memorial Day - most of the motorcyclists who attend are black. Maybe it just depends on where you stay and what places you go to. We were there right about the time of Strom Thurmond's funeral, and one thing many black South Carolinians said about him on the local TV news reports was that he was a representative of all the people of his state no matter the color of their skin, and despite what racist things he said many years before.
Jul 28th, 2003, 07:35 PM
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For obxgirl: no credentials required. Just plenty of time spent in the south, and having lived in the northeast and southwest as well, the differences are pretty obvious. As someone else pointed out, racism exists everywhere. But there are parts of the country where certain types of racism are more acceptable than in other parts.
Are you suggesting that there's no significant racism in the south?
If so I'd like to hear your defense for that position.
Are you suggesting that there's no significant racism in the south?
If so I'd like to hear your defense for that position.
Jul 28th, 2003, 07:40 PM
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Louise
I take the "red neck town" phrase to mean low class and uneducated. Usually it refers to white people with a yard full of old cars. So whether black or white or Asian, I view this as a compliment that she did not consider you a red neck.
One thing that my husband and I have commented on in years past is that black people usually do not vacation at the beach. We have been to beaches on the east coast, west coast, panhandle, carribbean and Mexico and the majority of people are not black. I don't think racism has anything to do with it. I just think most black people do not enjoy beach vacations.
I take the "red neck town" phrase to mean low class and uneducated. Usually it refers to white people with a yard full of old cars. So whether black or white or Asian, I view this as a compliment that she did not consider you a red neck.
One thing that my husband and I have commented on in years past is that black people usually do not vacation at the beach. We have been to beaches on the east coast, west coast, panhandle, carribbean and Mexico and the majority of people are not black. I don't think racism has anything to do with it. I just think most black people do not enjoy beach vacations.
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:21 AM
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I don't know what happened to GoTravel's post(I didn't get to read it) and I'm sure mine will get deleted as well, but here goes.
We have a house in North Myrtle about 5 blocks off the beach. We have been fortunate enough to have a policeman(who brings his patrol car home and parks in our drive) live behind this house that we have unoccupied for about 44 weeks of the year.
He has always told us "Do not come down here or let anyone else that you care about come down here over Memorial Day".
That happens to be black bikers week and it is not a good week for the city.
Things such as women riding on the back of bikes with no underwear.....people standing in people's yard and urinating in public...and lots of other disgusting acts of lewdness.
So, even tho it may not be fair, I guess that is why people might not be accepting.
BTW, our son and his wife went there a couple of years ago over Memorial Day....and they were fine and quite enjoyed all of the hooplah.
However, our daughter and her husband and 2 children decided they wanted to go this year, and our son's response to them was....We look weird enough to fit in down there, but you look normal and would not fit in.....and in no way are you taking my nieces (ages 3&4) there over Memorial Day.
So, I know this will get deleted and I haven't been very gracious, but just saying why some people may feel that way down there.
I'm not prejudiced and I don't care who goes to Myrtle Beach and when, but I will not go over Memorial Day or allow my grandchildren to witness sexual acts in public!!
We have a house in North Myrtle about 5 blocks off the beach. We have been fortunate enough to have a policeman(who brings his patrol car home and parks in our drive) live behind this house that we have unoccupied for about 44 weeks of the year.
He has always told us "Do not come down here or let anyone else that you care about come down here over Memorial Day".
That happens to be black bikers week and it is not a good week for the city.
Things such as women riding on the back of bikes with no underwear.....people standing in people's yard and urinating in public...and lots of other disgusting acts of lewdness.
So, even tho it may not be fair, I guess that is why people might not be accepting.
BTW, our son and his wife went there a couple of years ago over Memorial Day....and they were fine and quite enjoyed all of the hooplah.
However, our daughter and her husband and 2 children decided they wanted to go this year, and our son's response to them was....We look weird enough to fit in down there, but you look normal and would not fit in.....and in no way are you taking my nieces (ages 3&4) there over Memorial Day.
So, I know this will get deleted and I haven't been very gracious, but just saying why some people may feel that way down there.
I'm not prejudiced and I don't care who goes to Myrtle Beach and when, but I will not go over Memorial Day or allow my grandchildren to witness sexual acts in public!!
Jul 29th, 2003, 06:06 AM
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I just wanted to comment on a couple of posts. I think it's a misconception that black people don't like the beach. Like the above poster said, look at the Carribean! I mean why would someone's skin color be a deciding factor if you like the beach. Everyone can wear sunscreen.
As far as racism in the South, it is still prevalent behind closed doors. I live in Houston, Texas which is a big city where you would think people would be less racist- not true. A lot of my friends make racist comments, and they make fun of me for being idealistic and "politically correct".
But until one of them can prove to me that skin color affects intelligence or personality, I will continue to be "idealistic".
As far as racism in the South, it is still prevalent behind closed doors. I live in Houston, Texas which is a big city where you would think people would be less racist- not true. A lot of my friends make racist comments, and they make fun of me for being idealistic and "politically correct".
But until one of them can prove to me that skin color affects intelligence or personality, I will continue to be "idealistic".
Jul 29th, 2003, 07:10 AM
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I don't think anyone should skip over "cd's" comment. Certainly the term "redneck" connotes more than just racial attitudes to me. And when we traveled through MB, it certainly seemed there were a preponderance of entertainments designed to appeal to the country version of blue-collar and/or biker people, largely males for that matter. "Live girls," Dixie Stampede, Carolina Opry, Nascar-related stuff, even a Ripley's Believe It or Not. In fact, my AAA tourbook calls it "Branson East."
As it happens, we tend to assume that this particular demographic is ALSO racist, but had I been your friend and said to you what she did, I would definitely have meant that I didn't think "Branson East" was your taste or style. Whether she also was wondering, in addition, whether you'd feel comfortable as an African-American in that milieu, I can't say, although that may in fact have been part of it.
As it happens, we tend to assume that this particular demographic is ALSO racist, but had I been your friend and said to you what she did, I would definitely have meant that I didn't think "Branson East" was your taste or style. Whether she also was wondering, in addition, whether you'd feel comfortable as an African-American in that milieu, I can't say, although that may in fact have been part of it.
Jul 29th, 2003, 07:52 AM
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Well, I came to the forum to read about Hawaii, but having stumbled upon this, I couldn't help but comment. I am originally from the south, grew up and lived in FL for 21 years, and have now lived in the Chicago area for almost 10yrs. One of the biggest things that has stood out here is how much MORE racism/prejudice I have seen/heard here! I never heard the hateful, ignorant comments about minorities in FL that I hear here,--in large quantities. Sure, in FL there were a smaller number of prejudice types, but they said how they felt and everyone knew who they were. Here, it seems a large majority of whites AND minorities are racist. When around one another, everyone pretends to like one another, but as soon as they're w/ friends and/or family the racial epithets come flying out of there mouths. I've never seen an area w/ more underlying racial strife. Again, just an observation from a transplanted southerner ( white, 30's female) that has life experience in both areas.
I have also done alot of traveling as well, and for whatever reason the comment of blacks not going to the beach struck me too. For whatever reason, while frequenting the beaches quite often growing up in FL, I too, saw few blacks at the beach--never really thought much about it. However, having now traveled to many caribbean islands there are many minorities and blacks at the beaches. Reason ???????
I have also done alot of traveling as well, and for whatever reason the comment of blacks not going to the beach struck me too. For whatever reason, while frequenting the beaches quite often growing up in FL, I too, saw few blacks at the beach--never really thought much about it. However, having now traveled to many caribbean islands there are many minorities and blacks at the beaches. Reason ???????
Jul 29th, 2003, 11:50 AM
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I will respond and my original reply has been removed.
Basically what I said was that Louise's statement was ignorant assuming that Myrtle Beach is a racist area based on one person calling it a redneck town.
Louise, did you think that maybe the woman that spoke to you thought your were a little more upper class than the average tourist in Myrtle Beach?
Or, did you just assume she was racist.
Maybe, she thought you were a little nicer than the average tourist?
Or again, did you just assume she was making a racist statement?
Redneck means a lot of things and that term itself is racist.
Racism exists everywhere. Everywhere. Take a look at the Middle East.
I think you taking her comment in a racial way is racist.
My two cents. Flame away if you like.
Basically what I said was that Louise's statement was ignorant assuming that Myrtle Beach is a racist area based on one person calling it a redneck town.
Louise, did you think that maybe the woman that spoke to you thought your were a little more upper class than the average tourist in Myrtle Beach?
Or, did you just assume she was racist.
Maybe, she thought you were a little nicer than the average tourist?
Or again, did you just assume she was making a racist statement?
Redneck means a lot of things and that term itself is racist.
Racism exists everywhere. Everywhere. Take a look at the Middle East.
I think you taking her comment in a racial way is racist.
My two cents. Flame away if you like.
Jul 29th, 2003, 11:53 AM
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I'm glad you had a good time in Myrtle Beach, and came to visit SC in spite of the flag debate.
I'm going to be called a Polyanna here, but I've lived in SC all my life, and I don't think there is much racism left here. I don't know anyone who would have a problem with a black neighbor, who would deny a job based on race, who would desire a segregated vacation.
The lady indeed meant to be friendly to you with her redneck comment, implying that you were more sophisticated than the average MB visitor. MB does have a reputation in SC as being for high school kids and blue collar types (and golfers of all stripes) The snobs among us have moved on to Charleston, Litchfield, etc.
The term "redneck" does not(neccessarily) connote racism, at least here. To steal a few lines from Jeff Foxworthy, you're a redneck if:
*****You have to mow your driveway.
Your wallet and your dog are on a chain.
Your richest relative calls you to help take the wheels off his new house.
Your Mom doesn't have to take the cigarette out of her mouth to tell the police officer to kiss her ass.
You've ever been too drunk to fish.****
I do think that if you go WAY, WAY down the scale of education and economics, you will find some people who don't like minorities, but they don't like anybody else much either. They have miserable lives and need to feel superior in whatever way they can. If skin color is all they think they have going for them, well, there you have it. But I don't think that's widespread, and I don't it's limited to the South.
I'm going to be called a Polyanna here, but I've lived in SC all my life, and I don't think there is much racism left here. I don't know anyone who would have a problem with a black neighbor, who would deny a job based on race, who would desire a segregated vacation.
The lady indeed meant to be friendly to you with her redneck comment, implying that you were more sophisticated than the average MB visitor. MB does have a reputation in SC as being for high school kids and blue collar types (and golfers of all stripes) The snobs among us have moved on to Charleston, Litchfield, etc.
The term "redneck" does not(neccessarily) connote racism, at least here. To steal a few lines from Jeff Foxworthy, you're a redneck if:
*****You have to mow your driveway.
Your wallet and your dog are on a chain.
Your richest relative calls you to help take the wheels off his new house.
Your Mom doesn't have to take the cigarette out of her mouth to tell the police officer to kiss her ass.
You've ever been too drunk to fish.****
I do think that if you go WAY, WAY down the scale of education and economics, you will find some people who don't like minorities, but they don't like anybody else much either. They have miserable lives and need to feel superior in whatever way they can. If skin color is all they think they have going for them, well, there you have it. But I don't think that's widespread, and I don't it's limited to the South.
Jul 29th, 2003, 01:55 PM
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I agree with the gist of comments regarding the term "redneck": it is not synonymous with "racist". Some find it offensive in and of itself. I would compare it to the term "hillbilly", another regionalism some use openly, others find offensive.
For what it's worth (and that may not be much) Charleston and New Orleans are the only places I personally have ever heard the N word used in public by a white person. There were no black people around at the time. What really shocked me was that it wasn't used in anger, as an epithet, but casually, as if the speakers said it all the time. I know it's just a word, but man, it's a really ugly one. And I know I shouldn't judge an entire region by events in 2 cities, but it does color my opinion of the South.
For what it's worth (and that may not be much) Charleston and New Orleans are the only places I personally have ever heard the N word used in public by a white person. There were no black people around at the time. What really shocked me was that it wasn't used in anger, as an epithet, but casually, as if the speakers said it all the time. I know it's just a word, but man, it's a really ugly one. And I know I shouldn't judge an entire region by events in 2 cities, but it does color my opinion of the South.
