wendy236

We're planning a 4 week trip to Colorado and 4 Corners area from mid-April to mid-May. I'm looking for feedback on our planned itinerary.

"We" are a retired couple. Reasonably active - we enjoy hiking, kayaking, skiing... Also enjoy art etc. This trip will be mostly day hikes in National Parks, exploring the pueblo sites and exhibits, and art museums (Taos/Santa Fe/Albuquerque).

Our flights are into and out of Denver. Schedule: D1 - arrive Denver. D2 Florissant Fossil Beds NM & Mollie Kathleen gold mine in Cripple Creek, overnight near Great Sand Dunes NP. D3 AM Great Sand Dunes NP, PM drive to Taos. D4 Taos, evening drive to Santa Fe. D5 Santa Fe, including Pecos NHS. D6 Santa Fe AM, Petroglyph NM in Albuquerque PM. D6 Albuquerque museums, evening drive to Bloomfield. D7-8-9 Chaco. D10 Aztec Ruins NHS, drive to Mesa Verde. D11-12-13 Mesa Verde. D14 Hovenweep & maybe museum in Dolores, overnight in Blanding, UT. D15 Natural Bridges NM & nearby spots, overnight in Monticello. D16 Canyonlands Needles section, overnight Monticello. D17 Arches. D 18 Canyonlands Isl in the Sky section. D 19 Arches. (D17-19 overnight in Moab). D20 drive to CO Natl Monument, overnight Grand Junction.. D21 CO Natl Monument, overnight Montrose. D22 Black Canyon of the Gunnison, overnight Buena Vista. D23 drive to Grand Lake, Rocky Mtn National Park (west) , overnight Grand Lake. D24 RMNP west short hikes, drive to Estes Park. D25-26-27 Rocky Mountain NP East hikes. D27 day hikes RMNP, overnight Denver. D28 fly home.

Comments and suggestions? Thanks!

WhereAreWe

Just know that Trail Ridge Road (the route through RMNP between Grand Lake and Estes Park) doesn't typically open until Memorial Day weekend, so you will need to take the long way around to get to Estes Park.

You'll be somewhat limited in the dayhikes on the east side of RMNP as there will be too much snow at higher elevations. Waterfalls should be great, make sure you go to the Wild Basin section one of those days.

spirobulldog

I agree with wherearewe, you are a bit early for RMNP.

At Natural Bridges, be sure and do the hike to Sipapu Bridge. You can see it from the road/viewpoint but standing under it is very impressive.

You will see most of the stuff at Mesa Verde, but I don't think the Wetherill section opens until Memorial Day.

While at Arches/Moab I would see Deadhorse Point. I would also head out for a full day at Goblin Valley/Little Wildhorse Canyon. Those are two of my favorite spots in Utah. If you really like petroglyphs/pictographs then consider hiking at the detached section of Canyonlands-Horseshoe Canyon/Great Gallery. It is considered the best in the world by most folks. About 5-10 people per day is all that hikes there.

I hope that Medano Creek is running by the time you hit Great Sand Dunes. It is fun to sit and watch kids play in it. Very wierd how the sand there creates little mini waves. The primitive road is very fun and scenic, but you must have a 4 wheel drive and the creek can't be to high.

No train ride at Durango?


Since you seem adventurous, I must mention www.deserthighlights.com Its my all time favorite adventure. Very safe. My daughter and I have gone with them twice.

spirobulldog

No Pikes Peak either?

emalloy

I love Mesa Verde, but that early in the year Wetherill mesa section will not be open, so I would suggest you cut one day there and add it to one of the other places on your list, like Arches, Canyonlands, Santa Fe and if you do, consider hitting Bandelier NM which is about an hour from Santa Fe. If you click my name you will find some TRs in the area with links to pictures if you want an idea of some of the area, we hit petroglyph areas often.

WhereAreWe

Looking at your itinerary again, I think there are some places you could cut the time allotted and add some other places, like spiro suggested.

Black Canyon of the Gunnison is really not a full day, there aren't a lot of hiking trails in the park. I think you could make it to Grand Lake on the same day you do the Black Canyon.

Likewise, I don't think of Colorado National Monument as a full day type of place, it's relatively small. I think you could do something like this: D20, drive to Colorado National Monument, spend half a day or so, then drive to Montrose and stay overnight. D21, Black Canyon and drive to Grand Lake.

That alone gets you 2 extra days. Plus, I think you could/should cut at least one day from the east side of RMNP, maybe 2 days. You have 4 days of dayhiking planned, and you will just be to limited by the snow cover to spend 4 days there. At least that's my thought - I've been there in early June and I think the trails above 10K feet were snow covered. I'd say 3 days would be more accurate of a time frame to see the sights and do some dayhikes in mid-May.

So that gives 3 more days if you take all those suggestions, and there's certainly enough in Utah to keep you busy for 3 more days.

wendy236

Thanks for all of your suggestions! A couple of questions - and clarifications to find the holes in our plan.

RE Pikes Peak. Hmm. We are meeting family in Taos, so we have a deadline to keep. I don't think Pikes Peak can get added.

RE RMNP Trail Ridge Road. I do realize it will be closed. I figure the 2nd day on the west side will be a short hike or two in the AM, then a long trek around to Estes Park. I considered skipping the west side totally this trip as we'll only have a partial afternoon the first day and the morning the second.

RE the east side of RMNP. Our schedule assumes 3 days of hiking. Thanks for the warnings about the high areas being inaccessible. Does 3 days make sense? We tend to be slow hikers - stopping to look at lots of things (like plants! as well as the views), so I usually double the suggested time for hikes.

RE Mesa Verde. We actually have only 3 full days scheduled there, although more nights. Does that sound ok?

RE Bandelier - great suggestion! We went there last year, and we really liked it!

Thanks for the suggestions re Colorado NM. I am figuring we'll lose a half day driving from Moab to Colorado NM, but we may still have scheduled more time than we'll need. Good to know when we need to steal a day - or two - to see something else.

emalloy

Two full days should be plenty for Mesa Verde. Unless you hike a lot two in Chaco should be enough also. Do watch the weather going into Chaco, the road is not paved for about 15 miles and if it has rained, better not to go in some low spots flood.

WhereAreWe

Sorry, I totally missed that you only had 3 days on the east side of RMNP. I saw the day 25 - 26 - 27 and then day 27 dayhiking and drive to Denver and just counted day 27 twice.

I think 3 days would be good, even with the snow at higher elevations.

For sure keep the day on the west side - it is always less popular and in May with Trail Ridge Road closed it will be even less crowded. It does not have the spectacular scenery of the east side but certainly enough to keep you occupied for one day. Good chance of seeing some moose and/or and their babies, some nice meadows to hike around in and a short/easy hike to a waterfall.

I've gotta run but I'll come back later and list off some ideas for hiking on both sides of the park.

DebitNM

I am guessing you are coming from sea level. If that is correct, be sure you understand the difference in being active at sea level and at altitude.

This is a thread on it:

http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...h-altitude.cfm

You can also read online about how to prepare for it and also note that you need LOTS of water [3 times as much as you think you will need, seriously] to avoid dehydration here. Hats, sunscreen, chapstick, etc even in Spring.

wendy236

DebitNM - "I am guessing you are coming from sea level." Yep - Looks like high tide across the street. How did you know? Thanks for the link to hints about avoiding altitude sickness! It's probably good we're hitting RMNP at the end of our trip.

WhereAreWe - Thanks for the confirmation that 3 days on RMNP east side should be good. I would love any suggestions re hikes not to miss!

spirobulldog

Petroglyph Trail in Mesa Verde is nice

Great Sand Dunes-any walk among the Dunes
rent a sled or just ask someone they will let you slide down once or twice.

Natural Bridges-Sipapu Bridge. If you are there in the evening, the night sky is awesome. This is one of the darkest places in the world.

Arches-Double Arch, Balance Rock, The Windows, Devils Garden/Landscape Arch, Fiery Furnace Ranger-led hike, Delicate Arch

RMNP-The Loch/Sky Pond(don't know what the snow will be).
For us, we didn't really like the hikes in Wild Basin that much.
If the road isn't open, I wouldn't even bother with RMNP, I would spend my time somewhere else.

santafefoodie

If you haven't been to the cliff dwellings at the Puye Cliffs, northwest of Santa Fe, I highly recommend them. If you are going to Pecos on a Sunday, they offer a tour of Forked Lightening Ranch where actress Greer Garson lived Sundays at 1:30, reservations required. Also recommended, Acoma Sky City southwest of Albuquerque.

ElendilPickle

Parts of Bandelier are still closed due to last year's fire. Check www.nps.gov/band to see what will be open.

National Park Free Week is April 21-29. Hopefully you'll be able to take advantage! http://www.nps.gov/findapark/feefreeparks.htm

Lee Ann

spirobulldog

hopefully, if they are a retired couple, so just buy the Senior Lifetime Pass for $10, if you haven't already.

wendy236

santafefoodie - Thanks for the Santa Fe suggestions! I'll look them up! Any suggestions for good places to eat in Santa Fe or Taos - or Albuquerque? Our preference is interesting moderately priced ethnic food. Spicy is fine. Adult 'kids' we are meeting in Taos/Santa Fe are foodies.

Spirobulldog - Yes - we do have a senior park pass - well used. I plan to pick up my own this trip so that I can get the discount on hikes etc. Great bargain!

WhereAreWe

As spiro alluded to, mid-May is not the ideal time to visit RMNP. If there's any way you can push back your trip by a week or two I would highly recommend it - perfect if you could finish after Memorial Day because then you 'should' be able to drive over Trail Ridge Road. I say should because it's scheduled to open that weekend but that is weather dependent.

But I realize flights are probably booked and you may not have the option of changing your dates. I've been there in late April and early June, you'll encounter some snow the higher you go and the lower elevations might be a bit muddy in spots. But there are still some good hikes and views without the big summer crowds.

Spring is a great time for waterfalls, wildflowers at the lower elevations and some wildlife.

West side:
Adams Falls hike is 0.3 miles from the East Inlet Falls trailhead, super easy.

If you want a longer hike you could go to Cascade Falls on the North Inlet trail, but I don't recommend that since you're only on that side for one day.

Better options are the easy Coyote Valley trail and a hike to Big Meadows - Coyote Valley is right along the main park road.

Big Meadows is reached by either the Green Mountain trail (direct) or Onahu trail (loop hike connecting to Tonahutu trail, then Green Mountain trail). Big Meadows is exactly that, a big meadow. Not super exciting but you'd be looking for wildflowers and wildlife. Lots of moose on the west side.

Also, you can visit the Holzwarth Historic Site and/or hike on the Bowen/Baker trail for a bit - this would just take you off the main road out into a meadow/valley so somewhat like the Big Meadows hike. Don't expect super spectacular scenery on the west side, it's more about wildlife and a more relaxed atmosphere than the east side.

East side:
To me it makes sense to either arrive or depart via Hwy 7 through Allenspark. This will take you past the Wild Basin section as well as some other notable sights.

Wild Basin is amazing...but mostly if you get 5-6 miles deep into it. Before that, you're mostly hiking in the trees so not much in the way of views. I only recommend the area for this trip because 1) it shouldn't be crowded, 2) nice little waterfall with little effort and 3) low elevation means probably no snow and some wildflowers.

There's a nice view of Copeland Mountain from Copeland Lake (right on the entrance road). Then park at the main parking area and hike to Copeland Falls, about 0.3 miles. Super easy hike. If you really want to go further, Ouzel Falls is about 2.7 miles from the trailhead, but the hike is pretty much all in trees with limited views. I wouldn't go to Ouzel Falls with your limited timeframe.
Here's a few pics from that area:
http://tinyurl.com/bm2b8tn

Between Wild Basin and Estes Park you'll pass by a couple of cool things along Hwy 7: 1) St. Malo's Chapel and 2) Longs Peak. St. Malo's is an old stone church, very beautiful and a must-see. Longs Peak is the highest mountain in the park. You'll see it from the road, no need to drive to the Longs Peak trailhead. Also on that drive you'll pass by Lily Lake which is nice enough for the views around it but otherwise just ok. Very easy flat hike around the lake if you feel like stretching your legs.

Lily Lake is probably 10 minutes or so from Estes Park. It probably makes sense to do the drive down Hwy 7 on your last day as you're headed towards Denver, just give yourself a few hours for it all.

From Estes Park you can enter RMNP via either the Beaver Meadows entrance or the Fall River entrance. Beaver Meadows gets you to Bear Lake road the quickest, which is mainly where you'll want to spend your time. Fall River is interesting for a couple of things: 1) bighorn sheep tend to come down and visit Sheep Lakes right along the road just a few miles inside that entrance, and 2) the Alluvial Fan is notable for it's history. There used to be a dam on Lawn Lake upstream, which broke in 1982 and sent a massive flood down into the valley, depositing massive boulders at the Alluvial Fan site. It also killed 3 people and flooded the village of Estes Park. Interesting history and amazing to see the size of the boulders that were swept up in the floodwaters. But really, that stuff is an hour or so at the most, depending on how slow you drive and if you stop along the road to see some animals.

Bear Lake Road:
Unfortunately, it will be under construction for the next 2 years so expect some delays. Fortunately, you're not going in summer when it will be a nightmare.

Definitely hike to Cub Lake, beautiful little lake covered in lily pads. Might be muddy but the snow should be gone or mostly gone.

Sprague Lake is super easy, great views of the Continental Divide from the far side of the lake. A great place for a picnic if its warm enough.

I'd highly recommend you hike to Bierstadt Lake - the trail should be in decent shape as it's mostly facing south so hopefully no snow and dry. The trail itself is a bunch of switchbacks until you get into the trees, then it's a bit confusing as to where you go. The main trail makes a loop around Bierstadt and you will want to go to the east end, then take a spur trail to the lake itself. From there you'll be facing west for an incredible view of the Continental Divide.
http://tinyurl.com/bvffgvj

Seriously one of my favorite places in the park. If you continue around to the north you'll have a great view of Longs Peak to the south of Bierstadt. Even though the trail up to Bierstadt can be sort of steep, it is relatively short. Plus you have great views on your way up and down as the trail is very open except for the very bottom and top.

Continuing along Bear Lake Road, you'll see the Glacier Gorge trailhead. Park there to hike to Alberta Falls and Mills Lake - Alberta Falls is about 3/4 of a mile, great waterfall. Mills Lake is just under 3 miles and arguably the most beautiful lake in the park.
http://tinyurl.com/cxyyduh

You could try to go to the Loch but it's a bit higher than Mills and probably more snow than you might want to encounter at that time of year. I'd suspect there might be a bit of snow on the way to Mills also.

At the far end of Bear Lake Road is Bear Lake. Super easy trail around the lake. This is also where you will access the trail to Nymph Lake - if the trail is in decent shape to Nymph, you can try to continue on to Dream and Emerald but I would suspect you'll run into some snow on the way. That trifecta (Nymph/Dream/Emerald) is a great hike, under 2 miles to Emerald with great views.
Dream Lake:
http://tinyurl.com/bw9pcsl

Not a hike but if you enter Moraine Park you have a great chance of seeing a lot of elk, possibly some coyotes. You'll see elk just about anywhere, including Estes Park wandering around town, but the large herds tend to congregate in Moraine and Horseshoe Park.

Another really good hike for mid-May is Gem Lake - pretty low elevation and was dry and hikeable in late April so no worries for your trip. Gem is a very shallow pond, that area of the park is more noted for rock climbing than scenery. But it is a pretty hike with some nice views of the valley on the way. You'll pass by a large rock called Paul Bunyan's boot along the trail.

So to summarize: west side, relax and wander around the meadows, look for moose/elk and wildflowers. East side, focus on the Bear Lake area for probably half your time - Bierstadt, Mills, Cub and Dream are all probably doable in mid-May but will probably be best if you only do 2 of those on any given day. Mix it up, maybe do Bierstadt in the morning, then relax and do something easier in the afternoon like Cub Lake or Gem Lake. Another day, do Mills Lake in the morning and Dream in the afternoon with some sightseeing in the afternoon. 3rd day, do either Cub or Gem, and save Wild Basin for the afternoon as you're driving to Denver. In between all that, visit Sprague Lake, Moraine Park, Alluvial Fan and whatever else you find interesting.

ElendilPickle

There are a couple of restaurant threads in the New Mexico folder. Look for one by DebitNM and one from BeachGirl247 (I think that's the right number).

Lee Ann

DebitNM

http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...tnms-picks.cfm