xxx

sounds like an idea I would use, thanks.

Cindy

I just thought of something. Maybe it's better to identify kids as kids so that they needn't show photo ID at the gate? Does anyone know about this?

vvv

I was told to bring ID for all but I was thinking of just claiming over sight, it is not like they ask what my age is.

vvv

Thanks for that comment though I should make sure that we all have ID in order.

Carl

What's with you pickleheaded whiners who simply can't get it through your heads that the airlines are in the business of maximizing profit while ferrying passengers around the globe? Where does that VAST majority of their profit come from? Business travelers. So who are they going to 'take care of'? That's right....the ones who pay the lion's share of the bills. It's simple marketing, guys.
If a family of leisure travelers (who fly 3 times a year) pay the same fare as a business traveler whose company pays for him to fly 40 times per year, who does the airline cater to preferentially?
Sorry, gang, but that's just good old American capitalism at work.

vvv

not what we are talking about Carl but I am sure you can find another post to be angry at.

sss

Funny when did Carl start reading? I would just lie next time. Not much else you can do now with the exception of waiting just before boarding or few days before. Good Luck

Carl

ummmm....read the thread (not just the last 5 posts, you picklehead "vw").
Numerous times people whine about the airlines preferentially catering to business types, and question why they might have an attitude about families/kids, etc.
It's blatant discrimination IMO. But it's legal and it serves the interests of the airlines.
Don't like it? Start your own airline for families and kids. I'll be glad to buy you out for 10 cents on the dollar after the rapid descent into bankruptcy.

try again

Lying: moral issues aside I wouldn't do it just because the last thing you want is a problem at the airport before you leave on a big trip. I don't know what airline you are flying on, but I have never had a problem with being treated any differently whether traveling with children or not. Maybe you are wrong about why they weren't accomodating. Try some different airlines or even the same one again. Sometimes just talking to a different person can solve your problems.

As for buying your tickets 7 months in advance? You are almost certainly going to pay more.

vvv

Thanks good to know you had good experiences. The beginning of this post was a bit alarming but it just got worse and worse in terms of what people said happened to them. I did know about paying more earlier I expected that buying early bought me some selection in seats. We will survive but it is interesting to hear what people have been through.

mms

We travel at least three times a year with two kids. In nearly 15 years we have never had any problems getting good seats together. The few times we have been bumped or missed flights, the airline attendants have worked very hard to get us seated together on our alternative flights - even though each time we have been so happy to be flying period - where we sat made no difference. IMHO I think something else is going on here.

Bad All Over

"Good" old capitalism? Even the architects of capitalism said that it had to be tempered with ethics, morality, compassion, and order. Apparently Carl prefers to forget that, along with most of the US business community, who are now being showered with praise for their world popularity at the G8 meeting.

And I repeat, not ALL travelers travel on business. Every business in history that catered to one segment and penalized another eventually lost out when a competitor figured out that they had been missing a bet. The hostility to travelers who aren't in the first 9 rows has already resulted in enough complaints to make Congress take notice.

If you don't like regulation, Carl, watch out for your abusive attitude.

Carl

Sorry Bad all over, but your argument doesn't fit all (maybe even most) US businesses. Particularly niche businesses. If I own an expensive clothing retail shop, minimum $1500 suits, etc, and I alienate those unwilling to spend over $500, my business won't suffer any ill effect.
Competition is welcome to come in and cater to that segment. If that's not where my gravy is, doesn't matter.
For airlines, the gravy is the biz traveler (or the biz traveler's company). Sure they want the leisure market, as well. But they won't risk alienating the biz crowd.
And if you think Michael Douglas' monologue in "Wall Street" about how 'greed is good', etc etc was concocted to provide dramatic effect only, without basis in the real business world in this country, you might need to seek a commune in Oregon or someplace else to find a large group of people with similar beliefs.
Successful businesses are seldom built on a foundation of compassion, altruism and pink sweaters on Fridays. Important to try to give the APPEARANCE of compassion, good will, community involvement, etc, but the bottom line is always the bottom line.
Ask the guys at TelDar paper.

Dan

The FAA realizes children do not carry identification cards and as off June 1 2001, airline officials are authorized to administer lie detector tests and/or truth serum to the children in question.

Bad All Over

Airlines (and trains, buses, airwaves, bandwidths, etc.) are different from most other businesses in that they are, despite the various brand names, essentially a utility that needs to be available to most of the population, and also because essential resources (like landing space, airspace, etc.) are finite. The very fact that they are coagulating into giants demonstrates that "deregulation" won't result in increased competition if it doesn't make logistical or economic sense to have competition.

If we hadn't had an exceptionally explosive boom in the 80s-90s, business couldn't squander the money on privilege and perks that it has, and airlines wouldn't be able to focus on that one market at the expense of all others. Corporate travellers are much less "alienated" by unreasonable fare differentials that discriminate "against" them than they seem to be by lack of leg room.

And/so why should there even be a question of which segment you "alienate"? If there weren't middle-seats, cramped quarters, and fares that differ by orders of magnitude, there wouldn't be the assumption that certain groups of people "deserve" to be made uncomfortable -- esp. for being "unpatriotic" enough not to be traveling as a businessMan.

And, Carl, when it all comes down to it, why are you all running like "Rabbit," flying across timezones until you don't know where and when you are actually alive? Is it for your family and kids -- who, then, are entitled to fly comfortably too, aren't they? -- or is it so when you're buried, your stone will be prettier than mine?

xxx

I think all this is about a problem that doesn't really exist. I travel on a regular basis with my child and have never was treated like a less valued passenger. Why has my experience been so different than so many of the posters here? I think some of the people responding to this post just like to believe there is a big problem because it fits in with there idea of capitalism, good or bad.

Wondering

Is it true that Hawaii flights are considered international because they fly over water? Any airline folks out there?

Carl

Hey "Bad...", I'm not even a business traveler. I'm only pointing out the 'logic' behind the airlines behavior.
Personally I agree with your last comments about 'what it's all worth in the end'. But many leisure travelers (esp here) often forget, it seems, that they're not the coveted target population for the airlines. I'm only pointing out the airlines' business perspective.
Thanks for your thoughts, though. I'm always interested in how others see things.

sjones

Wondering:

No, Hawaii is NOT considered an international flight unless you are coming from Asia/Pac, Canada, Europe, etc. not from the mainland. They are one of our 50 states! Was this a sincere question?

Wondering

Sjones-Someone who worked for the airlines told me Hawaii was considered an International flight because you flew over International waters, had nothing to do with whether it was a state or not. I was just asking whether or not this was true! You don't have to get so rude and nasty about it!