CA Coast Drive Great; San Francisco, Not So Much
Jun 10th, 2012, 08:58 PM
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CA Coast Drive Great; San Francisco, Not So Much
Disclaimer: San Francisco is one of the greatest cities in the world. If you have never been, go. It is a unique, vibrant place with much to offer travelers. Additionally, the surrounding region is filled with great, beautiful places.
That being said, after a few recent trips to San Francisco in the past couple of years (some good, some just ok), this past weekend confirmed my displeasure with the City-by-the-Bay; and for me, the negatives now tarnish the positives. I concede that the following may seem like little things, but they were not little to me; and when combined, added up to an unpleasant trip.
I just got back from a few days driving up (and down) the coast between LA and San Francisco, a trip I usually do about once a year. The drive was fantastic (I am a car and driving enthusiast), and my days in Carmel and Santa Barbara and Napa Valley were fantastic. But unless I need to go to SF for business, I do not plan on returning anytime soon.
The things that made my trip unpleasant follow: Firstly, and most importantly, the homeless/ vagrant/ aggressive beggar/ druggie situation is completely out of control. And while not limited to Union Square, this is where it is at its worst. I usually stay in the Union Square area; but never again. I was repeatedly harassed by beggars and aggressive homeless, many of them acting drunk or on drugs, in a threatening manner. (I am an adult male from New York City who now lives in Los Angeles; so I am used to life in a city). On three separate occasions I tried to just sit in Union Square and watch the world go by; each time only to witness various street people: sleeping on the grass(one with his pants pulled down), aggressively harassing others and myself, and a particularly unpleasant dude who was dressed in a multicolored unitard just behaving bizarrely and aggressively mocking people and following them closely as they walked by.
The problem is not just one of unpleasantness, it is one of safety. Many of these people are on drugs, and are capable of violence. So now, as my hotel warned me: I "do not walk west of Union Square, it is just too dicey". Things are not just unsavory, they are potentially dangerous. Walking and wandering in a city is one of my favorite things to do; I used to walk to and from the Mission; no more. For the first time, I left my nice watch locked in the safe for the duration of the trip after my first day's hostile encounter right on union Square.
Secondly, in addition to certain areas being unsafe or unwise to walk; it is often difficult to get a taxi. There are just not enough cabs; and while the public transportation system is good, I prefer to walk, drive or take cabs. Speaking of driving; I drove to the Mission with a friend to get a snack at Tartine. We could not find a parking spot, and after 20 minutes of searching, we just gave up. Frustrating.
Thirdly, We could not get into any restaurants that we wanted to go to. We tried to reserve a few days before coming up, and with the exception of a 5:30 table here and a 10 pm table there, we could not secure reservations at any of our choices. This is understandable, but San Francisco is supposedly a great food city; it is not so great when you cannot get into the places you want to go. Or, we had the option of waiting to get a seat at various counters or communal tables or bars; sometimes a counter seat is nice, but I usually prefer a table, particularly for fine dining. Maybe you do not mind lines; I do not like them. We went to Swan Oyster Depot at 4 pm hoping to get a seat at the counter; the line was 15-20 people out the door - thanks, but no thanks (After no fewer than five tries, I will not likely return to Swan). We called Gary Danko at 5:45 pm hoping to sneak a walk in seat at the bar - there was already a two hour wait. These are just a couple of many examples.
(And when you are lucky enough to get a table somewhere, make sure to add the CA tax of 10% and the San Francisco restaurant workers health care fee of usually 4% to your bill, plus your 20% tip. (This is one of my pet peeves in general about the US vs. Europe and Asia). So, that $100 per person meal you just had is actually about $135 per person.).
I any event, I just don't love visiting this city anymore. San Francisco deserves its great reputation, but, like anywhere, is not without its faults. On this occasion, a few relatively minor inconveniences, combined with the major unpleasantness of my various encounters with "street people" overshadowed the many great things that San Francisco has to offer.
That being said, after a few recent trips to San Francisco in the past couple of years (some good, some just ok), this past weekend confirmed my displeasure with the City-by-the-Bay; and for me, the negatives now tarnish the positives. I concede that the following may seem like little things, but they were not little to me; and when combined, added up to an unpleasant trip.
I just got back from a few days driving up (and down) the coast between LA and San Francisco, a trip I usually do about once a year. The drive was fantastic (I am a car and driving enthusiast), and my days in Carmel and Santa Barbara and Napa Valley were fantastic. But unless I need to go to SF for business, I do not plan on returning anytime soon.
The things that made my trip unpleasant follow: Firstly, and most importantly, the homeless/ vagrant/ aggressive beggar/ druggie situation is completely out of control. And while not limited to Union Square, this is where it is at its worst. I usually stay in the Union Square area; but never again. I was repeatedly harassed by beggars and aggressive homeless, many of them acting drunk or on drugs, in a threatening manner. (I am an adult male from New York City who now lives in Los Angeles; so I am used to life in a city). On three separate occasions I tried to just sit in Union Square and watch the world go by; each time only to witness various street people: sleeping on the grass(one with his pants pulled down), aggressively harassing others and myself, and a particularly unpleasant dude who was dressed in a multicolored unitard just behaving bizarrely and aggressively mocking people and following them closely as they walked by.
The problem is not just one of unpleasantness, it is one of safety. Many of these people are on drugs, and are capable of violence. So now, as my hotel warned me: I "do not walk west of Union Square, it is just too dicey". Things are not just unsavory, they are potentially dangerous. Walking and wandering in a city is one of my favorite things to do; I used to walk to and from the Mission; no more. For the first time, I left my nice watch locked in the safe for the duration of the trip after my first day's hostile encounter right on union Square.
Secondly, in addition to certain areas being unsafe or unwise to walk; it is often difficult to get a taxi. There are just not enough cabs; and while the public transportation system is good, I prefer to walk, drive or take cabs. Speaking of driving; I drove to the Mission with a friend to get a snack at Tartine. We could not find a parking spot, and after 20 minutes of searching, we just gave up. Frustrating.
Thirdly, We could not get into any restaurants that we wanted to go to. We tried to reserve a few days before coming up, and with the exception of a 5:30 table here and a 10 pm table there, we could not secure reservations at any of our choices. This is understandable, but San Francisco is supposedly a great food city; it is not so great when you cannot get into the places you want to go. Or, we had the option of waiting to get a seat at various counters or communal tables or bars; sometimes a counter seat is nice, but I usually prefer a table, particularly for fine dining. Maybe you do not mind lines; I do not like them. We went to Swan Oyster Depot at 4 pm hoping to get a seat at the counter; the line was 15-20 people out the door - thanks, but no thanks (After no fewer than five tries, I will not likely return to Swan). We called Gary Danko at 5:45 pm hoping to sneak a walk in seat at the bar - there was already a two hour wait. These are just a couple of many examples.
(And when you are lucky enough to get a table somewhere, make sure to add the CA tax of 10% and the San Francisco restaurant workers health care fee of usually 4% to your bill, plus your 20% tip. (This is one of my pet peeves in general about the US vs. Europe and Asia). So, that $100 per person meal you just had is actually about $135 per person.).
I any event, I just don't love visiting this city anymore. San Francisco deserves its great reputation, but, like anywhere, is not without its faults. On this occasion, a few relatively minor inconveniences, combined with the major unpleasantness of my various encounters with "street people" overshadowed the many great things that San Francisco has to offer.
Jun 11th, 2012, 03:13 AM
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Sorry you had such a negative experience in San Francisco. The kinds of experiences you found are the reason we haven't done a city vacation.
So tell about the good part of the trip. What was wonderful on the coast road??
So tell about the good part of the trip. What was wonderful on the coast road??
Jun 11th, 2012, 04:19 AM
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Dang. Years ago - we loved picking up sandwiches, etc - and having our lunch in Union Square - watching the world go by.
Things seem to have changed. I know during my last visit - Chinatown was mobbed on a Saturday - but many were "local" Chinese coming in from the Avenues to shop!!!
And "Norta" Beach was also busy - even if most of the delis are gone - as many of the old/classic restaurants/cafes - but you could still park at the Vallejo St. garage if you didn't find a place on the street - and slide into Cafe Trieste http://www.caffetrieste.com/ for an expresso/maybe hear some music - or walk along Columbus and visit Cafe Puccini - another favorite. http://sanfrancisco.citysearch.com/p...e_puccini.html
But such a shame about the places you tried. Guess "Baghdad by the Bay" - as famed columnist Herb Caen used to call it - has somewhat gone to seed?
And there is nothing I hate worse than panhandlers with a sense of entitlement. They try to browbeat people into supporting their lifestyle, and if they are on drugs - all the more of a concern, because even if one did by chance wind up punching one out - the friends will tell the police it was all your fault.
And as for restaurants - again - no idea it was that crowded or such a hassle to park, although again - knew parking had gotten worse in the City. Had heard Guy Danko can be reserved weeks out - but no idea it was such a concern elsewhere too.
Geesh - makes me yearn for the days (again long ago) - when living on Union St - or before that in Sausalito.
you could walk to restaurants. Even going into the City from Sausalito - it was an easy drive - where you could park fairly easily at/around most places, even down by Scomas - where they didn't take reservations but if you knew the gal at the desk - no problemo.
And you used to even be able to order Abalone sometimes (when it was in - but even back then - it was becoming tres pricey) and our favorite - Rex Sole - but it's very hard to find the "King" of Sole anymore also.
Tadich's http://www.tadichgrill.com/ used to do a great Rex Sole - and the (traditionally) male waiters - with just the proper aplomb - loved to make a big presentation of de boning if for you at your table.
Hey - they knew it was good for a couple of more dollars on their tip.
But that was loooooooooooooong ago...................................
Things seem to have changed. I know during my last visit - Chinatown was mobbed on a Saturday - but many were "local" Chinese coming in from the Avenues to shop!!!
And "Norta" Beach was also busy - even if most of the delis are gone - as many of the old/classic restaurants/cafes - but you could still park at the Vallejo St. garage if you didn't find a place on the street - and slide into Cafe Trieste http://www.caffetrieste.com/ for an expresso/maybe hear some music - or walk along Columbus and visit Cafe Puccini - another favorite. http://sanfrancisco.citysearch.com/p...e_puccini.html
But such a shame about the places you tried. Guess "Baghdad by the Bay" - as famed columnist Herb Caen used to call it - has somewhat gone to seed?
And there is nothing I hate worse than panhandlers with a sense of entitlement. They try to browbeat people into supporting their lifestyle, and if they are on drugs - all the more of a concern, because even if one did by chance wind up punching one out - the friends will tell the police it was all your fault.
And as for restaurants - again - no idea it was that crowded or such a hassle to park, although again - knew parking had gotten worse in the City. Had heard Guy Danko can be reserved weeks out - but no idea it was such a concern elsewhere too.
Geesh - makes me yearn for the days (again long ago) - when living on Union St - or before that in Sausalito.
you could walk to restaurants. Even going into the City from Sausalito - it was an easy drive - where you could park fairly easily at/around most places, even down by Scomas - where they didn't take reservations but if you knew the gal at the desk - no problemo.
And you used to even be able to order Abalone sometimes (when it was in - but even back then - it was becoming tres pricey) and our favorite - Rex Sole - but it's very hard to find the "King" of Sole anymore also.
Tadich's http://www.tadichgrill.com/ used to do a great Rex Sole - and the (traditionally) male waiters - with just the proper aplomb - loved to make a big presentation of de boning if for you at your table.
Hey - they knew it was good for a couple of more dollars on their tip.
But that was loooooooooooooong ago...................................
Jun 11th, 2012, 04:50 AM
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My friend is currently in SF (her firts visit) and i was telling her how great it is (I haven't been for 8 years) she just texted me to say she saw a homeless person with a sign saying "Dollars for weed please" she said she wanted to throw a rock at him, i mean she could understand "dollars for food " but weed, come on!!!.
she is loving SF BUT said there are some very aggresive sellers on the pavemnet!!
Pity,my BF and I are going back in November and i had planned on extending from the 3 days i have booked. Not sure i will now, we will just carry on south to Carmel....
I must admit if there is a restaurant i really want to go to, I normally book a few weeks before I leave, i don't like leaving it to chance, but that's just me
she is loving SF BUT said there are some very aggresive sellers on the pavemnet!!
Pity,my BF and I are going back in November and i had planned on extending from the 3 days i have booked. Not sure i will now, we will just carry on south to Carmel....
I must admit if there is a restaurant i really want to go to, I normally book a few weeks before I leave, i don't like leaving it to chance, but that's just me
Jun 11th, 2012, 06:52 AM
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I love San Francisco, warts and all, but I also feel the vagrant issue is also out of control. It was much worse a few months ago than it was a few years ago when we first visited San Francisco, in my opinion.
You must know, having lived in NYC and L.A., that it isn't unusual to have to secure a restaurant reservation weeks, even a month, in advance. Not being able to get a reservation a 'few days' in advance doesn't surprise me at all; I would have been surprised if you'd been able to reserve with such short notice.
Is 10:00 too late for dinner? What time do you usually eat dinner in the city?
You must know, having lived in NYC and L.A., that it isn't unusual to have to secure a restaurant reservation weeks, even a month, in advance. Not being able to get a reservation a 'few days' in advance doesn't surprise me at all; I would have been surprised if you'd been able to reserve with such short notice.
Is 10:00 too late for dinner? What time do you usually eat dinner in the city?
Jun 11th, 2012, 07:01 AM
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I am so glad I read this forum. It now changes my mind about staying in the Union Square area. I am planning a coast drive from LA to Frisco in October with my husband. He has never been to San Francisco. We are stopping in San Jose to stay with friends for a few days and then driving up to Frisco for the remainder of our vacation. We will have a rental car and need somewhere that is convenient to park. The only reason we are keeping the car once we get into the city is we are driving up to Point Reyes to see family one day. I am very concerned about the homeless problem. We live in NYC and are not oblivious to the problem however, it seems it is much worse in Frisco and I really don't need the stress when we are on vacation with people in your face urging trouble. Can someone suggest an alternative to staying in Union Square?
Jun 11th, 2012, 07:08 AM
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We go to SF every year to visit our daughter. we love the city, and almost never visit the Union Square area. First off, SF is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Walking thru Pacific Heights, driving up to Twin Peaks, exploring the off the beaten track areas like Clement Street, the Presidio, Golden Gate Park, the Marina, Japantown, Fillmore street, etc, etc is what the city is all about. These areas are perfectly safe, clean and lots of fun.
Jun 11th, 2012, 07:19 AM
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I'm sure I overlook the homeless problem because I live here (I've been told by people on this forum that I'm oblivious to it). That said, Union Square is the main downtown shopping area, with all the high-end boutiques and department stores and many fine hotels, not to mention the millions of patrons who visit every year (local and not). Don't stay there if you don't want to stay in a dense urban high-end shopping district, but understand what you are avoiding.
Jun 11th, 2012, 07:29 AM
#12
One Frisco is bad enough, three in one post - ye gods patsy(!)
fishskis: I do understand -I live in northern California and go into the City less and less. It is still one of my favorite places, but now I really only go when there is some event I want to attend. I used to drive down on a whim just to shop or have lunch. Not so much anymore.
But the dinner reservation issue -- seems just part of the territory. You need to plan ahead for 'destination' restaurants most everywhere, not just in SF.
fishskis: I do understand -I live in northern California and go into the City less and less. It is still one of my favorite places, but now I really only go when there is some event I want to attend. I used to drive down on a whim just to shop or have lunch. Not so much anymore.
But the dinner reservation issue -- seems just part of the territory. You need to plan ahead for 'destination' restaurants most everywhere, not just in SF.
Jun 11th, 2012, 07:32 AM
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Excellent point, sf7307.
I would add that insisting on driving in a big city and complaining, then, about a lack of parking seems...unrealistic. And I am surprised that the OP, a former New Yorker, didn't realize that. Look, it's fine to say "I don't like to use public transportation," but the key to happy tourism is adapting, to some extent, to one's surroundings.
Ditto on the restaurant complaint. Yes, it's frustrating, but in big cities, restaurants book up waaaay in advance, and people stand in lines to get into things. You can choose to plan ahead yourself, or you can choose to skip the lines, but the city won't change for you in any case.
I would add that insisting on driving in a big city and complaining, then, about a lack of parking seems...unrealistic. And I am surprised that the OP, a former New Yorker, didn't realize that. Look, it's fine to say "I don't like to use public transportation," but the key to happy tourism is adapting, to some extent, to one's surroundings.
Ditto on the restaurant complaint. Yes, it's frustrating, but in big cities, restaurants book up waaaay in advance, and people stand in lines to get into things. You can choose to plan ahead yourself, or you can choose to skip the lines, but the city won't change for you in any case.
Jun 11th, 2012, 07:56 AM
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I'm sorry to hear your visit was less than pleasant. It's tough for cities to manage their homeless population, especially when the weather is so welcoming.
I will say that we encountered a very aggressive panhandler in San Francisco a few years ago. Our kids were little, he got in DH's face and was yelling obscenities at us. Of course, DH had to respond to him, as though he would teach him a lesson about that kind of language around kids! Oh, yeah, that was worthwhile! I think DH made as big a scene as the disgusting panhandler had.
I will say that we encountered a very aggressive panhandler in San Francisco a few years ago. Our kids were little, he got in DH's face and was yelling obscenities at us. Of course, DH had to respond to him, as though he would teach him a lesson about that kind of language around kids! Oh, yeah, that was worthwhile! I think DH made as big a scene as the disgusting panhandler had.
Jun 11th, 2012, 08:44 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I completely agree that SF is one of the most beautiful cities there is; my major point was that my trip was seriously dampened by my encounters with street people, and the general environment around Union Square.
It seems that at least 75% of the hotels in SF are situated in the Union Square area, so I almost always end up there. I do not like staying at Fisherman's Wharf, which is very touristy and family oriented. Next time I will stay on Nob Hill or maybe at the Vitale (Embarcadero), which I like.
Regarding restaurants, of course I understand that popular restaurants book up; but my experience has been that there is usually a handful of truly difficult places in each city, but that you can usually get into some places that you want to go. And yes, eating at 10 can be ok, though I prefer 8 or 9. This was a minor gripe, but it was an important part of why the trip was disappointing. And while it may not be fair to compare SF to Napa or Santa Barbara, I went to every restaurant I wanted to (Bistro Jeanty and Redd in Napa Valley, and Olio e Limone, Arigato, and Los Agaves in SB) with one days's notice or the same day as a walk in with no lines, no problems, and had great experiences at all of them.
Regarding driving and parking in the city: of course I know parking can be difficult in a city; but it seems particularly difficult around the Ferry Building and the Mission. My problem is not that only there is no street parking; it is the difficulty in finding paid parking - a lot or garage- these seem rare in these areas. I am a city person; I understand - but this does not negate this being another thing that added to my general frustration with the city on this trip.
It seems that at least 75% of the hotels in SF are situated in the Union Square area, so I almost always end up there. I do not like staying at Fisherman's Wharf, which is very touristy and family oriented. Next time I will stay on Nob Hill or maybe at the Vitale (Embarcadero), which I like.
Regarding restaurants, of course I understand that popular restaurants book up; but my experience has been that there is usually a handful of truly difficult places in each city, but that you can usually get into some places that you want to go. And yes, eating at 10 can be ok, though I prefer 8 or 9. This was a minor gripe, but it was an important part of why the trip was disappointing. And while it may not be fair to compare SF to Napa or Santa Barbara, I went to every restaurant I wanted to (Bistro Jeanty and Redd in Napa Valley, and Olio e Limone, Arigato, and Los Agaves in SB) with one days's notice or the same day as a walk in with no lines, no problems, and had great experiences at all of them.
Regarding driving and parking in the city: of course I know parking can be difficult in a city; but it seems particularly difficult around the Ferry Building and the Mission. My problem is not that only there is no street parking; it is the difficulty in finding paid parking - a lot or garage- these seem rare in these areas. I am a city person; I understand - but this does not negate this being another thing that added to my general frustration with the city on this trip.
Jun 11th, 2012, 08:52 AM
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Actually the number of homeless in Los Angeles is much greater than in San Francisco. So, as "downtown" Los Angeles is revived and reborn, you may see a lot of the same "vagrant" infiltration as they move from skid row, a few blocks over to where people are dining and bar-hopping.
Other than that, well, the mantra of the locals seems to be, say whatever you like about the city,just don't call it Frisco!
Other than that, well, the mantra of the locals seems to be, say whatever you like about the city,just don't call it Frisco!
Jun 11th, 2012, 08:54 AM
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As for the Mission, yes, it's very very difficult to find parking (there is one large pay parking lot), but it's NOT a tourist area, it's primarily a residential area. Try finding a space on the street on the Upper West Side.
