starrs

...Gershwin...

jroth

NeoP - My comment about Lend Me a Tenor being mediocre is just that - it's mediocre. This has nothing to do with my likes about farce - I like good farce, good drrama, good musicals, etc. I just think this was not a very good farce - that was my impression when I first saw it.

jroth

And (re Lend Me A Tenor) - (and not that one need attend to the critics opinion) - I just read Isherwood's review in the Times - he just about has the same opinion as I did of this play. Also - the original review years ago in the Times also opined - this is just not a good farce. Back then we saw it as it was part of a series we had - I believe Roundabout.

NeoPatrick

Oh, well if any critics said it wasn't good then of course they're right. . .

Many critics believe that a play that merely entertains really isn't worth doing -- the viewpoint is expressed over and over again. It's really hard for many critics to say, "this play doesn't solve any problems in the world, it doesn't make anyone think, and it just doesn't make logical sense, but people who like farces will find it one of the most entertaining farces ever.

But jroth, you are now the boldest theatre critic I know. Even Ben Brantley is more likely to say "I THINK it's mediocre", but you say it is mediocre as if since you think it is -- then it is fact. Just for the record, could you name a few really good modern farces? I don't know of any that have been universally praised by all critics. Do you?

jroth

Neo - The thing is - all criticism is a matter of taste. I have mine - you have yours - we are each entitled. I merely noted some other critics view of Lend Me a Tenor - generally agreeing with my take. And I certainly grant you there is an audience for all sorts of entertainments. But critics do a play a significant role in the theater and first rate media organizations select them very carefully for their experience, background, etc. BTW - it's just not true that critics will slam a play that "merely entertains" - what would you call their universal reactions to The Producers? Not exactly a play that solved problems of the world.

Centralparkgirl

We've had these discussions before about critics, reviews and individual tastes. All can differ and some can agree and everything in between. The bottom line is what YOUR view is of what you are seeing.

Tonight I saw 'White's Lies' with Betty Buckley. Although this isn't a farce, it might be enjoyed by those who like that style. This comedy depends on timing and much of it was very funny. The young playwright sat behind us and his parents next to us. Had a nice conversation with the dad - what a difficult process to get something produced.

yk

Wow, there's certainly lots of controversy regarding Next to Normal's win in this year's Pulitzer!

Centralparkgirl

I didn't read about the controversy, but I was surprised that it won. I enjoyed it, but the music was not memorable at all, imo. I was equally surprised that 'In the Next Room' was a finalist.

NeoPatrick

jroth, minor point but The Producers was a musical -- not a "play". How critics accept or react to musicals being "just entertainment" as opposed to plays is like night and day.

The only reason I brought this all up was your very clear statement as if it were a fact that Lend Me a Tenor is "mediocre". Sure some critics also don't like it, just as some critics rave about it. The reason I brought it up is that you can google and time after time there are only TWO examples given of modern award winning farces -- Noises Off and Lend Me a Tenor. My question still stands -- if one or both of those farces are not good -- please list some that are.

You are 100% right that it is all a matter of opinion. I'm just trying to get your opinion of some really great modern American farces. Since Lend Me a Tenor is not worth reviving, what farces are?

jroth

Neo - We do agree: Noises Off was a first rate farce. Not fair to ask me to come up with names of farces from yesteryear that I enjoyed - listen - I can't remember my grandchildren's names. But I do remember Lend Me a Tenor since we had some discussion on that with fellow theater goers when we saw the original production. BTW - note an article in today's Times - front page - on Addams Family - recipient of a gazillion panning (and that's an understatement) reviews - yet doing quite well at the box office. Chacun a son gout.

HowardR

The Times article about The Addams Family is most interesting. I'll be curious to see if its box-office power continues into the fall. Still, there's no guarantee that the show will make a profit. Jekyl & Hyde, one of other musicals that the article cites with a similar history (i.e., poor reviews, but a long run) ran nearly four years, and from what I read at the time, it never earned back its investment.

chaucerquest

Apparently "Addams Family" sold almost $900,000 worth of tickets in the few days after Brantley's review appeared. Some people are saying it is "critic proof." "Wicked" also did not receive great reviews initially. I saw "Addams Family" in Chicago. The set and technical devices (puppetry) were top notch. The music is ok. If you loved Nathan Lane in "The Producers," you will enjoy this show, though it is not nearly as funny a script. Lots of nice little moments but it doesn't add up to a brilliant show. But audiences seem to like it.

Other things I've seen recently:

"A Behanding in Spokane." Very weird, and arguably offensive (the "N" word is used constantly). Funny in a perverse, nervous-making way. For those who like edgy theater.

"Red." A classic "smaller" play. It only has two actors, Rothko and his assistant, and the play basically exists to allow Rothko to offer his theories on art and the progression from cubism (before he came along) to abstract expressionism (his style) to Pop art (which he hated). If you aren't a museum goer, I doubt this will grab you. It's about 90 minutes without intermission.

Everyone I know who has seen "Promises, Promises" has enjoyed it. And I've heard mostly positive things about "Sondheim on Sondheim," particularly from devoted fans--they love the documentary stuff and interviews.

HowardR

In the long run, I don't think that The Addams Family will be as great as hit as Wicked, since, overall, the latter's reviews were much better than the former's.
As for Sondheim on Sondheim, unlike chaucerquest, the comments we've heard have not been that favorable....not so much that it wasn't good, but rather, we expected it to be better!

starrs

"...mostly positive things about "Sondheim on Sondheim," particularly from devoted fans--they love the documentary stuff and interviews."

Count me in that group. I REALLY enjoyed it.
I understand the wish for "more" - more songs, more Barbara Cook, etc. But I REALLY enjoyed the format and backstories by Sondheim that some didn't enjoy.

I know HowardR does not agree with me on this one - or Wicked

LOVED Million Dollar Quartet - as did Kathie Lee and Hoda.
<ducking for cover now>
They pointed out it will be popular with male audience members who often don't enjoy musicals.
I hope it has a long run. I enjoyed it more than Promises, Promises - and virtually everything else I saw last week.

HowardR

starrs, you'll be happy to know that the NY Times critic also loved The Million Dollar Quartet.
As for the Sondheim show, my wife and I were really looking forward to seeing it, and the realization didn't come close to the expectation:
1. Too much talking and not enough singing.
2. Not enough of his best songs.
3. Too much of the songs that were cut out of shows. (Hell, in most instances, we felt it was obvious why they were cut out: They just weren't the best of Sondheim!)

starrs

Wow, nice review HR! Thanks for passing the word!
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ollar-quartet/

emd3

Chaucer, your comment on Behanding in Spokane has prompted me to write, as it is the 1st comment that has mentioned the language. I was looking forward to seeing Behanding when I went in mid-March. I am not conservative by any means, I consider myself open-minded, but I was so sick of the constant cursing (for what seemed to be no good reason) that I left mid-way through the play. Sam Rockwell's long bizarre rant in particular really turned me off.

I was not the only one. My 20 yr old son and his girlfriend went the night before me, and unbeknownst to me before I saw the play, they also left about half way through. For language in a play to offend my son to the point of leaving- well, that surprised me much more than the fact that it offended me, as my son is as liberal if not more so than I am, and he has acted in several local theater productions and is involved in theater at his university. He said he felt the language served no good purpose that he could understand. He also really likes Sam Rockwell, but Rockwell's diatribe turned him off, and he said what they saw of the play offended him, but also embarrassed him because he had his girlfriend w/him.

Centralparkgirl

emd3 - your comments are so interesting. I saw the play with my two sons (in their 20's). All of us had seen other McDonaugh works before and had some expectations (sort of). I wasn't offended because I felt the language contributed to the 'whole' of the play just like the set, the content of the dialogue and especially the mannerisms of the characters. I don't care for foul language that's misplaced, but I didn't feel that in this play. I certainly believe that's how you felt and your son as well; it's just very interesting how we all have different takes on performances. I'm curious: had you read much about the play before or had you seen other McDonaugh plays?

NeoPatrick

I'm not sure what you mean, emd3, about the language serving no purpose that your son could understand.

These are not professionals working in an office. They are basically "street" orphans, low class drug dealers, etc. There is simply no way people like that would say, "golly gee, I think that African American hand isn't the specific item I was looking for". The characters talked as THAT kind of characters talk -- it's really that simple.

I understand how the language can offend people, but I suppose that comes back to the idea of having some understanding of the type of play, plot, and characters you are going to see.