The Wanderer

Since the relative merits and safety of public transport vs cars has been called into question, I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in since I frequently travel to, and use public transportaion in Chicago. I have found the system there to be very good, although some of the stations could stand a good cleaning, and relatively safe, provided you know what you are doing and where you are going to. Since I have my brother and sister living up there that is no problem for me.

Now is it a good idea to take the El or the bus alone after dark, no but then again it's not smart to go out alone after dark anywhere alone, even in Europe, never know who you will run into. As far as costs and times go, I buy my 5 day tourist pass for $28 bucks and get unlimited rides on the bus or L. If I rented a car @ 40 a day, with gas over two bucks a gallon, assuming I fill a 14 gallon tank up twice, well you get my drift. Cost wise there is no comparison.

If you plan ahead as to how soon you will have to leave, you'll be ok in that regard. Truth be told working with this system is much easier than it seems.

WhyNot

Instead of boycotting recreational travel, why not write letters to our elected officials? Most of their addresses are listed on the web. Write to your congressman, senator, the President, Governor, Attorney General and anyone else who will listen. It is obvious from the different prices on gas in the US there is price gouging and collusion!

Brian in Atlanta

Cindy and Charles, I agree with you completely.

Brooke

Yikes! When are these prices going to stop? I paid 2.18 yesterday in mid Michigan. I drive a compact car so my bills aren't quite as high as others.
I'm a teacher, thank goodness I am not driving my hour and 15 minute round trip this summer. For trips around town, I'm sticking to my bike.

Jeanette

My attack on the el near Harrison happened at 2 o'clock in the afternoon on a route that I thought was completely safe as I had used it to go to college and work scores of times. You always think it's "fine" until it happens to you. You always think that you are smart enough to be "safe." I saw them coming and saved myself a lot with a few first well aimed hits with my book bag. One really didn't do much after that but watch because I gave him too much pain- but the whole thing was over in less than 7 minutes and I will never forget those 7 minutes. THEY do not all COME to rescue you. This is before the era when gang members where always packing guns-also. The public transportation from Midway (orange line) is ok in Chicago. Most other els from the South / SW (IN THE CITY) are
not. Archer Ave. bus is packed and no where near a huge % of population. Trains are ok but not near to a lot of people without 2 or three other
line/ system transfers. (THIS literally can take 1-1/2 hours or more.)I am not a bigot. I go into the city about twice a year (downtown) and go to Sox games frequently with about 6 to 8 people in the car. Where do all you city people think your food comes from??? Do you see the endless lines of trucks bringing to you on I-80? Do you think we can all live in cities and sit at desks all day and ride our bikes to work? I am an educator- and therefore I don't make the money my son, for instance, makes in the big business world. The man who is fixing my old appliance today has to start charging for delivery. Our country is not 300 miles wide. All factors in a very complex question. There is very probably a cyclical "gouge" as some above have described. Gas went up 8 cents more over night. It was now $2.17 a gallon for regular as I passed going to work. I may retire to a very rural area in the Southwest. In truth many of my life choices were not directed by me as I have "carried" at least 7 or 8 other people all my life. Some of us don't choose to run away to the big city and leave our nuturers when they now need us. This is not whining but only an attempt at explaining to others why there is not such an absolute answer. I personally hate SUV's and vans. Have made our roads so congested and they don't "flow" like the rest of traffic. Just my opinion. Why does there seem to be such livid anger and rudeness over someone like notPC's opinion? Someone mentioned Rocker- we had a large family discussion about that. Isn't the reaction to his statements as bad as "they" are? Isn't the primary premise of our wide, wide land that you get to believe what you want and to say the "truth" as you see it and not what is politically popular or "in" at the time? Some little people are going to go under if the gas prices keep going and then you'll have MORE in the city who are going to need special services.

michele

Jeanette -- I have to say, I disagree with you when you say that those who reacted to John Rocker are as bad as he is. There is nothing "impolite" about publicly chastizing and socially shunning a racist bigot. Yes, he has the right to express himself freely. But that right comes with consequences, and if one of the consequences is that certain private individuals, organizations and businesses no longer choose to associate with him because they disagree with his comments, I for one applaud them for standing up for THEIR beliefs. Certainly, John Rocker has the right to believe and say whatever he wants to, as do the rest of us. But that does not mean that all free speech is equally valid or that we should treat all of it respectfully. Some of it is nonsense and should be treated as such, with disrespect for the person who uttered it. When bigots go unchallenged, everybody loses.

No one is saying that we should all live in cities and ride our bikes to work. But pretending we have no choice about where we live and how we transport ourselves from place to place makes no sense. I do sympathize to a certain extent with people who are struggling with higher gas prices, because I know how I feel when fares go up, or cable rates, or any other bills I have to pay. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just saying that the government isn't doing anybody any favors by allowing gas prices to be so low in the first place.

Jeanette

I would much rather have a bigot say what he thinks, as John Rocker did (and fall by his own words later- as "what goes around comes around") than witness band wagon over-reactions of the self righteous. Most of my children agree with you, by the way.

TW

Why is disciplining a worker who publicly and for the record disparages his co worker's ethnicity overreaction?

Cholly

Charles, yes, you made the choice to buy an SUV and pay for it, but so is everyone else paying the ecological and socio-economic prices for those of you who still, apparently, disbelieve global warming and think mass transit is someone's else's lookout.

Jeannette, Rocker has nothing to do with boycotting road travel, but I do point out that everyone knew exactly where Hitler stood, no hypocrisy there, so should no one have criticized him? Not nearly enough did.

Jeanette

No they DIDN'T criticize him, they also joined the politically correct bandwagon of their time. His (Rocker) employers deserved to deal with him to the extent of harm it caused their business and association. They did and fairly promptly. He did not assault or stab anyone. Over reactions gave it more voice than it should have.

Charlene

Dear Whatis:
A "5th wheel" is a type of travel trailer. It's what baby boomers graduate to after they've done the tent thing and the tent trailer thing.

We don't have public transportation where I live.

And I agree that boycotting recreational travel wouldn't have as big an impact as boycotting all travel for the week...but I'm assuming lots of people will actually have to work that week and wouldn't be able to do it anyway. At least recreational travel is discretionary, and we can choose not to do it.

Charles

Cholly, I think you need to re-read my original post. I very strongly support mass transit, and use it regularly. I have an SUV because I need one (to haul things, and for snow and ice. Yes, a subaru wouold be just as good for snow, but not for the things I need to haul).
I agree with you that SUVs are bad for the environment, I don't think most people need them, and I am perfectly willing to pay a high price for owning one - I wish they (and every car) was much more fuel efficient. Perhaps you could re-read my first post with an eye toward understanding it.

TW

Jeanette-
In your post on the thread about Central Park, you mention how your own physical attack has "changed your mindset." It is true that Rocker did not physically assault anyone. However as a member of one of the minority groups he saw fit to bash, let me emphasize that in the 31 years of my life, the constant derision and verbal assaults I have experienced have left deep scars in my mind as well. And it has changed my mindset just as significantly. I too never fail to look over my shoulder in certain neighborhoods, etc. So when John Rocker consciously shoots off at the mouth in one of the most widely read magazines in the country (read by many young people who look to sports figures as heroes), I don't find public scorn of him to be overreaction. In fact I applaud it. It shows that minorities in this country are no longer tolerating unjustified hatred directed at them. Just as rape victims are no longer tolerating the idea that they deserved what they got because they were wearing a short skirt.

Completely

Boy I'd love to see all those athletes who buy and take illegal drugs, solicit prostitutes, beat up club bouncers, hire hitmen to kill their pregnant girlfriends, attack their coaches, rape women, beat up and yes, even KILL their wives, receive one TENTH the condemnation that Rocker did for uttering some politically incorrect words. Last time I checked free speech wasn't illegal, but everything else mentioned above was. Hell, Strawberry is held up as a hero for our nation's youth.

Rocker just said what many whites think, and yes, well educated and wealthy ones too (they're called Republicans), but don't dare say. People express it instead in the form of "white flight" from inner cities like NY, and now from the suburbs to rural areas. We've been brainwashed to believe that the overwhelming numbers of Third World immigrants here are good for "diversity" so we won't challenge the fact that they're brought over to be used as cheap labor. You don't see those corporate muckety-mucks living in "diverse" neighborhoods do you? Including all the muckety-mucks in the world of professional baseball.

Cholly

Charles, it's because I DID read your internally-inconsistent post that I responded. All very well for you to feel you've taken the high road because you're "willing" to pay a high price for gas. My point is that you've assumed that the matter stops there, that YOUR willingness to pay or not to pay is all that is involved.

I'm "willing" to have gas prices go as high as they need to in order to reset political priorities and subsidize mass transit on a much greater scale, but in the process the poor will suffer much more severely than people like you.

In the mean time, YOUR decision to have an SUV "even if" you are willing to pay higher gas prices adds to the pollution and sustains the existence of a market for the SUVS which guarantees they'll continue to be made. That a price I'M paying for YOUR decision, along with everyone else no matter whether they own a car or an SUV or not.

Cindy

If I may be so bold, I'd like to defend Charles a bit because I think we may be getting carried away. Charles says he has an SUV because he needs it, and he is willing to pay the cost to buy and maintain it and the high cost of gas for it. So what is wrong with that? Many vehicles get worse gas mileage than an SUV. Tractor trailers, for instance. But they exist for a reason. Indeed, I understand that lawn mowers spew out far more pollution than a car, which explains the awful smell one must endure when using one. As for the people who bought fuel inefficient cars like SUVs for style and show, well, it is time to pay up and I have a hard time mustering sympathy for you. Sorry about that.

I take issue with people who buy gas guzzling cars and then complain about the cost of gas, or make a reasonable choice to live in the outer suburbs and expect the government to make their commute less expensive. That strikes me as so funny. I mean, I bought a close-in house with tangerine bathrooms, and they will be expensive to remodel. I think our next president should do something about the price of tile. Obviously, my remarks don't apply to everyone, because mass transit isn't available everywhere. But as for the huge numbers of people living in suburban areas near urban areas, I still think they had a choice in where they live.

On John Rocker, the penalty for committing a crime is a criminal penalty. The penalty for slandering groups of people and behaving like a small-minded bigot is public scorn. I think the penalty fits the "crime" in his case. And for the person who seems to appreciate bigots with the courage to speak their mind, I don't think you'd feel that way if the comments were directed at you. As a member of one of the groups Mr. Rocker disparaged (no, I'm not a prostitute), I was offended but satisfied that he got his comeuppance, and I wonder how things are down in the minor leagues. Sweet revenge!

Gary

Cindy:

Nicely thought-out reply. Unfortunately, "sweet revenge" lasted only as long as his team had adequate replacements. He's back, thus proving that winning games and drawing fans carries more weight than self-image.

no

To Cindy: Love ya babe, but you're starting to rival Elvira over on the European forum for frequency and length of posts. Just curious -- what do you do all day? Full time mom? Independently wealthy? Slacking off at work? (Just ribbing you, don't get mad.

I'm involved with a community group that is trying to address urban sprawl, and the things I've learned along the way have been real eye openers. Someone likened development to a pyramid scheme: a few get rich, some get jobs, but most of us just pay for it, in the form of taxes. Government, particularly local government, actually encourages sprawl in the form of subsidies and tax incentives. When those new high density housing developments go up, farther and farther out into rural areas, guess who pays for it? You do, Joe Taxpayer. Instead of utilizing places with existing infrastructure, governments (i.e. taxpayers) subsidize new roads, schools, fire departments, sewer systems, and on and on. Exisiting infrastructures and areas are left to crumble. Just shows how influential all those wealthy developers and their political candidates are.

So, with all the effort from private industry and government entitites to continue growth, development and sprawl, small wonder that most of us have been funneled into the suburbs, and now have to pay large gasoline bills every month for the privilige of commuting.

Cindy

Aw, man, I've been busted. OK, I know I post way, way too much, and I am trying to work through this problem. If you would all stop bringing up all of these fascinating social issues and discussing them with such grace, I could quit. But you are the most interesting on-line group of people I have ever run across, so it is really not my fault that I can't stay away.

As for the length problem, it takes more words to make a point rationally than to just flame someone. But since you all are very nice to me, I feel I have to make the effort to be nice back.

Note how I cleverly put the blame on you? I'll try to tone it down.

elliana

Fuel prices not only have an impact on transportation, but for those of you who heat your homes with natural gas and oil, and in many areas of the country there is no choice as in my case, it impacts us all in every way.

Those of you who posted contacting your state senator and congressional representative is the answer. Prices do not have to be this high; those of you who claim we are "spoiled" in the U.S. would probably be the first to fight if your resources were suddenly taken away.

There is no reason for high fuel prices, and yes, this country's representatives can do something about it.

There is also no reason to "conserve" fuel - there is plenty of it. The energy crisis was overwith before many of you could even talk.

To simply say we are "spoiled" here in the US is a falsehood. We pay the highest taxes of any citizens in the free world. I hardly call that spoiled.

And since we are funding most of the countries abroad, including Israel one of the wealthies countries in the world and which is a waste of money, we DO have the right to low fuel costs. The taxpayers of this country are entitled to some compensation!

So, don't waste your time Charlene boycotting recreational travel. Do something constructive to change the high cost of fuel in this country. Contact your senators and congressional representatives and demand it.