Hi Everyone,

My husband rec'd a warning on his gov't account today, with an attached document containing pics of devices that are being used by crooks to get your ATM card and PIN info. I have saved the WORD document with the pics, but don't know how you all could see it.

The pics show a device that the crooks attach on top of the existing card reader slot and is disguised to look like it's part of the machine. When you slide your card in, it passes through the bogus reader first, and the bogus reader downloads your card info to a remote device. Once it passes through the bogus reader, your card then slides on through to be read by the real ATM reader, and you can conduct your transaction as usual, with no idea that your card info has just been accessed and downloaded.

The other device that crooks are using is a pamphlet-holder box that is attached to the wall of the ATM machine with Velcro. Trouble is, it's full of bank pamphlets, and looks like it should be exactly where it is. The box is positioned so that a hidden camera inside the box can videotape your PIN numbers as you enter them, and it also videotapes anything on the ATM screen.

I just thought I'd better post this warning. Perhaps some of you already know about these criminal methods of stealing your ATM information, but others might not.

Thanks for the tip, had not heard about the pamphlet holder box . In my case the crooks could only get ~$400 per 24 hours.

I think once a hacker/crook has your card info and PIN numbers, they can use it for just about anything, not just ATM withdrawals. So, if you're talking about the usual per/day ATM withdrawal limit, I think it goes far beyond that.

It is not my intent to educate would be thieves but there are other numbers required to get more than the daily withdrawal limit.

I'm sure those numbers, and anything else they might require for their 'activities' are far more easily attainable than any of us imagine, especially for those who know how to hack into and manipulate computers. All those people need is a starting point, and they can work in any direction after that. It's pretty scary.

I have heard about some of these scams as well... Not sure how the box thing scam would work, though.
Ok... so the crook has your PIN. They don't have your name OR your acct number, so what good is it?

Thanks for sharing the latest in consumer scams. 20 years of consumer law and I'm still amazed at the new scams i see everyday. The increase in identity theft type crimes just astounds me. If only these people would put their intelligence towards a better purpose-maybe we could cure more diseases.

Actually, they have all the info on the card. These little boxes or scanners (I think they are called "skimmers") read all the info on the card as well as capture the PIN so they have everything.

A couple years ago, a waiter in one of the better restaurants in town was arrested for using a skimmer -- apparently, he stole the credit card info from the patrons' credit cards when they gave them to him to pay the bill and he got hundreds before he was arrested.

I think the bottom line is that if something "looks funny", beware. It's probaby a good idea to bring this topic up here on the boards to remind people to always be on the alert.

An article on the topic: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0721/p15s01-wmcn.html

I know that the liability on most credit cards is only $50 in the case of unauthorized use...so it is not a bad risk at all. BUT what happens with an ATM card directly connected to your checking account? Do they freeze your funds? For how long? For example, if you have a $3000 balance in your checking account at the time of the theft, and assuming you catch it within the week, how long will that $3K be tied up, and how much of it would you be liable for?

I think it depends on the bank. It's not as cut and dry as with credit cards.

But.....I think having funds in your bank account unavailable for a few weeks while everything is sorted out, even if it is all eventually refunded to the account holder can be more devastating that having charges run up against your credit card. Just think: all the checks (or electronic transfers) to pay your mortgage/rent, and other day to day living expenses getting rejected because someone wiped out your checking account, even if it was only "temporarily".

One reason why my ATM card which is attached to my checking account is an ATM card only, not a debit card. I never understood why I'd want a debit card anyway? Why not be charging those groceries, etc. on a credit card and keep my own money for a month or more until that bill needs to be paid? And why risk someone being able to debit my checking account?

I believe it does depend on the Financial Institution, in my experience with one in particular, I have received calls from the "bank security department" when unusual transactions occur, (e.g. charges in Mexico).

Carroll... I understand the readers have access to all the data, they also have your PIN because they prompt you for it before the stop working.
You slide your card and all looks fine. It asks for a PIN, you enter it... and then it does not work. Many people just think the darn thing "went down" when it really captured all your info, including the pin.
Now... back to the brochure box.
It does not get a scan so it has no way of knowing anything. It may see the PIN but nothing more, so unless I am missing something, it is not that scary.
My bank ATM DOES NOT at any time display my name or account number on the screen...

Reply to TxTravPro,
I have seen ATMs displaying names on the screen, also I recall recent advice instructing people to shield the keypad with one hand when entering PINS (even to shield it from onlookers in line behind you). Sometimes with one ATM I have visited in particular, I find people do not even exit the system properly so that the next person in line has access to their account-very troubling.

I guess I am lucky... I only use the ATM at my bank. I never use ATM's anywhere else because I can get money from the store for free.
My bank (BankOne) keeps my card until the transaction has terminated and they never display my name or number.
Seems that how they should all be designed.

We just heard from an elderly cousin who was contacted by their credit card company about a scam that was pulled on them. Apparently those cell phones with cameras are being used to take pictures of your credit card while you are checking out of a store. The person behind our cousin took a picture of their card and sent it off to an accomplice who started using it immediately to charge things on the internet. By the time our cousin got home from the store the credit card company had already called to tell them that they suspected credit card fraud as they realized that the card was being used almost simultaneously on the internet and at a retail store. Discover Card recommended tha you keep you card face down at all time and to shield your transaction if possible.

I was under the impression that one needed additional digits on the card (I won't be more specific) in order to charge items on the net. At least that has been my experience when purchasing items from various sites.

Something I learned last week: When you use your credit card sometimes the amount is not automatically transferred from the cash register receipt to your credit card receipt. In many cases, the store clerk who is processing the transaction actually has to type in the amount! I went to a deli where I spent $90.58. I handed the cashier my credit card. It was a Saturday afternoon, the store was packed, I was in a hurry (who is not these days?), gathering up my purchases, talking w/ a friend when the Cashier slid the credit card receipt over for me to sign. Instead of looking @ it, which I usually do, I glanced @ it while quickly signing my name. Then I saw that she had typed in $905.88 instead of $90.58. And I had signed it!!! So, I said "Well, I know I usually spend a lot of money here but this is ridiculous! Pls void this & let's start over." To which she replied "Sorry, I do not know how to do that because nobody ever returns anything in a deli!!" I told her to close out her line which she did, had her call the owner who walked her through it (not complicated but there are certain codes that have to be entered.) Anyway.....it was Tuesday morning b/f it all was sorted out. I called Visa. They said "Well you signed it, so you are liable." I "conference-called" the Deli & Visa & we worked it out.. So.....check your credit card receipts before you sign them. Sounds simple enough.

Just one more addition...I recently saw a story about crooks who legitimately purchase ATM machines, doctor them to record your information, then place them in public places. You use them, don't know that anything is amiss, but they capture your account #/pin and use it to steal $ from you. The moral of the story was NOT to use ATM machines that aren't owned by a Bank or other reputable institution. THere are so many ATMs out there...it's hard to know what's legit and what's not.

To MicheleNYC - some cards like AMEX do need extra digits and some don't. But if the crooks have a picture of your card they have the extra digits also.