ChristieP

Hazel's idea about renting to get used to the area is GREAT! Fortunately, the capital gains tax on the sale of a home is long gone (since 2001 or so), so you won't have that to worry about. Since your kids won't be in school immediately, that will likely be an idea option for you.

Having never been in a backyard in Keller, I really don't have any basis to compare sizes, sorry! Our yard is a little larger that most city yards in Dallas, and we have tons of big trees. Grapevine is mostly built out (thanks to DFW Airport taking almost 25% of the city's land when it was built in the 1970's) so there are only a few brand-new neighborhoods. But there are lots of homes less than 10 years old, especially in the southern part of town. Traffic isn't that bad, honestly. I can, and do, get to downtown Dallas or downtown Fort Worth within 30 minutes on a regular basis.

Plano isn't exactly a dull or boring place to live, but the only things to do there are shop and go out to eat. There's few parks, and virtually zero natural areas. Here in Grapevine, we have the lake, which is surrounded by parks with lots of hiking, etc. And, we have all of the shopping and restaurants, too, if you want to shop and eat. We also have a very active community with several annual festivals. Also, thanks to us getting all of the sales taxes from the terminals and most of the landing fees from DFW, we have an EXCELLENT library (MUCH better than Plano, and I speak from experience) and a superb parks and recreation department. Our schools are all highly rated (no low-performing ones) and the community really gets involved. As I said before, it feels like a small town, which we love.

writingmonica

Hello. I lived in Dallas for 10 years and lived in a handful of neighborhoods, each with its own personality. If you want to live in a suburb, you're already setting up for a commute of some sort---and there's no clear demarcation between Dallas proper and its suburbs---it all runs together. Suburb reputations for schools in Richardson and Plano, at Dallas' north side, are good. In Dallas, if you want to avoid "haves and have nots," stay away from the village of Highland Park, which is it's own town in the middle of Dallas. Greenville Ave. area is loaded with restaurants/bars--and people who go there to have a good time. Busy area---not especially known for schools. On the other hand, you might consider Forest Lane area near the tollroad--pretty much quiet and attractive--not sure specifically about schools. Beware of Park Lane---sounds nice, but isn't so, on west side. You might also consider Inwood Road sort of near tollroad, but sticking more to east side. Attractive, lots of nice families, well into Dallas' interior. Preston Road north of Mockingbird is generally nice to very nice, but not ostentatious. Any good (not fancy) neighborhood in Dallas tends to be pretty neighborhoody once you've established yourself. Besure to get to know your neighbors. Just know there's a "healthy" dose of "have and have not" attitude ALL over Dallas, and even its northern suburbs.
NorthPark Mall on Northwest Hwy. is nice, and not too huge and tacky. If you like good French roast coffee, good Caesar salad and great baked goods, you HAVE to try one of the La Madeleine cafes in town. That's one of the few things I miss about Dallas.
Best of luck. -- monica

aggiemom

Notsure - each town here has their own independent school district (ISD). We are in Keller ISD.

There are hundreds of new homes being built in neighboring Fort Worth (west of Keller) which carries the 76248 zip code and students attend KISD schools. Therefore, your school taxes are paid to Keller, but city taxes and other services (utilities) are paid to Fort Worth. We had looked at the area before we chose Hidden Lakes in Keller. There is no comparison. Many of the homes are cheaply done. Not a good "neighborhood" feel. You can probably get a 4,000 sq ft home for $250k, but the quality is just not there, overall. To some people, they feel like just being in the KISD schools is worth it. But you can easily find lovely homes far from all that congestion. Traffic there is really, really bad (even by California standards!).

While I'm on the subject of taxes. Are you aware of the high property taxes in Texas? It's based on the value of your home. We pay about $10-$11,000 year in taxes on our Keller home, whereas in OC we paid about $2700 per year.

Do remember, though, that there is no state income tax in Texas (yet, anyway!), so it kind of evens out.

Notsure

ChristieP: I'm not sure if I read this correct buy you said that the capital gains tax stopped after 2001? I'm pretty sure it still remains the same and that if we had a place we owned and rented; once we sell, we would have to pay 15% or to avoid that, we can roll the money over to another home and keep it as a rental for 2 years before we can move into it. If that's the case that since 2001, the capital gains tax has been demolished, than I guess renting a place for a while until we know which area to buy into does make more sense to do.

Notsure

Aggiemom:

Yes, I've heard about the housing taxes and I think my husband said that he has a list of the taxes in different counties - is your property tax about the same as Mansfield's? The reason why I'm asking about Mansfield is because one of my husband's cousin lives down there and she was saying how high it was for her.

jcb

notsure -

If you are talking about doing a Section 1031 like kind exchange on your Hawaii property in order to avoid taxes, just make sure you properly do it through and appropriate intermediary. If not, you will probably have to pay federal and state tax on the gain on the rental property. I don't know the specifics, but I know there is a time frame for buying/selling the property. Just make sure and ask your CPA.

ChristieP

Notsure,
When we sold our house in East Dallas in 2001, we made a nice profit on it, which we did NOT reinvest in a new house. We did NOT have to pay ANY capital gains tax on it at all! The tax code changes made that possible. I'm no expert on taxes, so you might want to consult someone who is, but AFAIK, that is still the way things are!

jcb

ChristieP - FYI - the tax rules are different btw rental property and your personal residence. You do have to pay capital gains taxes on the sale of a rental property (assuming you have a gain) unless you used it as your primary residence for 2 out of 5 years or you do a like kind exchange.

aggiemom

I'm not that familiar with Mansfield, Notsure. We've been many times to ball fields for the girls' softball, but that's about it. They have some new homes going in there, so it would be worth looking into it.

jayne1973

Once you buy a house and start the kids in school, it's much hard to change your mind. DFW is going to be a HUGE change from San Francisco. If I were you, I'd find a rent house for a year and do some serious exploring and soul searching before making the decision. Best of luck!

Scarlett

Oh Boy, did Malesherbes hit it right on the head!
We have moved twice ( big big moves) in the past 2 years and from our own experience and meeting others who moved too, her advice is brilliant.
There is nothing more off putting than someone who is happy to tell you How they do it somewhere else and why it is better..and you can never get to love a place if you are constantly pining for the old place.
Thank you Malesherbes, I needed to read that too

Notsure

Does anyone have any info or opinions on North Richland?

aggiemom

Hi Notsure -

You know, I was going to mention North Richland Hills and I forgot. Some of it is nice, similar to Keller. That'd be the northern part which borders Keller. There are several tracts of homes being built off of N. Tarrant Parkway in NRH and many of them are very, very nice. One of them is called "Forest Glenn." We have friends who live there and actually it is in the Keller ISD.

That's not to say that NRH schools are bad. I think they are rated a little below Keller, Carroll (in Southlake) and Grapevine, but I would say in the top 5 or 10 of Tarrant county.

Maybe someone who lives there can add something - and correct me if my observations are wrong. I would recommend you look there anyway.

There is another large, new development going in called "Home Town." I don't like it at all - (my personal opinion only!)

They're selling it as a "live, work, play here" place. The streets are very narrow, you enter your garage from a rear, common alley and there are no driveways, which looks odd to me. We've driven through a few times and the streets can be impassable if cars are parked on either side, which is very common.

Overall, I think the housing prices may be the same or somewhat lower than Keller. The houses we had looked at were very nice, 5-10 years old, but I suppose we just wanted a new house, new neighborhood which luckily looks like it's been here for 20 years.

xbt2316

Hello, Notsure,

Regarding Grapevine, I can't give you much specific information. I know it has a cute downtown, and a large mall nearby, but for much more than that, I'll refer you to Christie. I wouldn't trust her to compare her town to others, though... she seems a tad parochial toward her home town.

Regarding North Richland Hills... same story. All I know is that it has a fine municipal water park.

One advantage of Plano is that it seems to attract the best shops and restaurants and entertainment. There was an article in the Dallas Morning News this morning about an item that is a sort of baby blanket with feet... the idea is that the blanket won't slip out of the stroller. The item was created by a Seattle mother, is in limited distribution in the USA, and the only two shops that carry it locally are in, of course, Plano.

One thing that the Bay Area has is a plentiful offering of specialty and foreign and art films. Plano is the only Dallas suburb to have a real art film theatre... the Angelika, in a place called Legacy. The Angelika is a branch of a well known Manhattan moviehouse, in Greenwich Village, actually, and shows a good variety of non-hollywood fare on its 5 screens. The Legacy Town Center is what is called a Lifestyle Center. Instead of a mall inside a huge building, it has well decorated streets with interesting storefronts, many restaurants and shops in walking distance, and a much more pleasant atmosphere. It even has town houses and apartments in walking distance to the shops. To be fair to Northeast Tarrant County, it also has a similar center called Southlake, in the city of Southlake, naturally. But... since Christie has declared Southlake to be "snooty", I guess you're not allowed to go there.

The Eisemann Theatre is close to Plano, and has a regular offering of touring Broadway shows, plays, concerts, etc. Downtown Plano also has a bit of culture, and it's as cute as, if not more so, than Grapevine's.

The best culture, restaurants, shopping, etc, are in Dallas proper, but when a shop or restaurant spins off a suburban branch, it usually ends up in Plano.

Plano has a huge park on its east side, and they have the major hot air baloon festival for the metro area there every year. Lake Lavon is very accessible to Plano, and also has parks and hiking trails on its shoreline.

Speaking of East Plano, I think you'll see enormous social and cultural differences between East and West... One reason I disagree with Christie's blanket condemnation of Plano's alleged "materialism" is that it's just unfair to so characterize a quarter of a million people that way... not only unfair, but self-defeating.

I don't think you want to give up on Southern Collin County (Plano) as a possible relocation site. Traveling on the GB Turnpike, you're not that much farther from Arlington than Northeast Tarrant would be... and You don't want to be that close to your inlaws, as you pointed out.

Why am I plugging Plano so hard when I probably wouldn't live there myself? Mostly because Christie is so disparaging of it. I just want you to hear the other side of the story.

By the way, your two children would be very thrilled to ride the McKinney Avenue Trolley in Uptown Dallas. Whenever I'm there, I usually see a fair number of parents and small children who are waiting to ride. It's a fun ride, through a quaint part of Dallas, in trolley cars that are a hundred years old. It's actually Dallas' version of the Powell Street Cable car, minus the crowds... and the big hills.

ChristieP

Xbt, I'm sorry that you feel it necessary to go after Plano just because I can't stand the place (after living there 6 months and working there for 2 years). I only advised the OP not to move there because of her comment,"I don't want to live in a snobby/"have and have not" area." To me, that describes many areas Plano to a T. This will be especially true for her due to the price range of housing she is seeking, which is significantly higher than almost everything in East Plano besides the homes with acreage.

Look, we both love living in the Dallas area, so why can't we just agree to disagree on this one?

Kath

I've lived in Arlington my whole life and my son is in AISD schools. Arlington is just like anywhere else, good and bad. I'm not sure what the "immigrant" situation is that someone else referred to, but I like it here. Big town, 350,000+ so that may not be what you are looking for. Mansfield is noice too. You could buy a LOT of home in Mansfield or Arlington for that $$.

xbt2316

Christie, I can't "agree to disagree" on that issue, because your comment about Plano's alleged "materialism" sounds like a bigoted insult. If you want to go into a sociological analysis of various Plano neighborhoods, and keep things on an objective level, that would be much better for people unfamiliar with the DFW area.

On the question of whether Plano or Grapevine has a better downtown, we can certainly argue that point, in a friendly spirit, I'm sure... and everyone will benefit from the discussion.

But... when you make a statement like "Plano has nothing to do besides restaurants and shopping"... you're asking for it. Asking for some contrary examples that would prove you wrong.

Christie, didn't they ever tell you in school that you can't prove a negative statement?

On the question of Plano's

Kath

Oh, I went back and read it. Something about how in the early grades they teach bilingual. That's misinformation.

Malesherbes

Christie, as much as I love to spar with xbt, I have to agree with his assessment of Plano, and disagree with yours. I lived in west Plano for close to 2 decades. There is a fair amount of wealth there, yes, but I would never characterize the population (222,000!)as snobby. That's unfair and inaccurate.

Plano might not be right for Notsure and I wouldn't push it simply because she seems to be leaning toward the mid cities area and her husband's job will take him all over the metroplex. Although GB freeway is fine now, I'd hate to have to travel the Dallas North tollway daily to get into town. But...Plano was a terrific place to live and to raise our kids...schools were fantastic scholastically and were built to keep pace with the population explosion the area went through. City sponsored recreation opportunities were abundant, with a first class soccer program. The city has miles and miles of nicely maintained and landscaped bike trails. The library system is phenomenal. It honestly is a terrific city to live in and if notsure's needs were different than what they appear to be, I'd recommend it in a heartbeat.

xbt2316

Kath, you raise a good point. It's not only insensitive to damn Arlington's schools as automatically undesirable, it's just plain self-defeating. Since Arlington has neighborhood schools, the social quality of the school depends on the neighborhood. And there's no such things as good or bad schools, just under or overachieving students. It's a cruel reality that the better off the parents, the better the children do in school...

A better way to choose a school is by the predominant social class of the children's families. Why is that? So the children can socialize with their socioeconomic peers. And not be ostracized for being too poor or too rich.

Notsure, I don't know what you really mean by a "snobby/have and have not area". Social class distinctions are a reality in America, and people select their neighbors (and friends) from people similar to them, socially, culturally, financially. And they tend to avoid the company of those who are richer or poorer than they are. That is as true for Grapevine and Plano as it is for Walnut Creek and Danville. It was especially true for hippie Haight-Ashbury in the late 60's, as I recall.

By the way, your price range is very high for the Dallas area. You need to choose a neighborhood based more upon your social background and lifestyle, rather than houses selling for a specific dollar amount.

Christie, you may be authoratative about the specific Plano neighborhood you lived in for 6 months, but that does not qualify you to generalize about the hundreds of neighborhoods in Plano. Your experience was subjective, and appears to be upsetting to you, at least slightly. It does not necessarily apply to, or be important to, random strangers who post on this board for objective information.

In my case, I'm bending over backwards to be objective about areas of metro Dallas that may not be that personally appealing to me. If I have a personal opinion, I'll try to identify it as such. And give some background for that opinion. Then, the readers can decide how much of my personal tastes apply to them, if at all.