All of California Issued "Stay at Home" Directive
May 15th, 2020, 10:13 AM
#121
There just doesn't seem to be an understanding or acceptance that the more we follow the rules now, the sooner this will be over.
Yes, it's simple to break up groups congregating on the sand, but my town doesn't have the police resources to devote to babysitting on the beach every day.
Georgia has had 704 new cases (only 4 other states had more) and 13 deaths in the past 24 hours.
Yes, it's simple to break up groups congregating on the sand, but my town doesn't have the police resources to devote to babysitting on the beach every day.
Georgia has had 704 new cases (only 4 other states had more) and 13 deaths in the past 24 hours.
May 15th, 2020, 10:21 AM
#122
everyone just needs a reality check. There has never been a successful vaccine against any coronaviruses in humans, so unless you are willing to basically live indoors for the rest of your life and not socialize with anyone outside your immediate family . . . we simply must be able to take a few risks.
May 15th, 2020, 10:22 AM
#123
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And closing again after reopening is just devastating to think about. Get it over with as much as can be predicted by "draconian measures"/needed measures. Do you think ANYone enjoys it!!
Our son in law owns 3 restaurants, one of which may not survive. They were all terrific vibrant GREAT places with great food and enormous clientele/reputation. It is heartbreaking. No one wants to "reopen" more than I do.
Our son in law owns 3 restaurants, one of which may not survive. They were all terrific vibrant GREAT places with great food and enormous clientele/reputation. It is heartbreaking. No one wants to "reopen" more than I do.
May 15th, 2020, 10:54 AM
#124
A vaccine isn't absolutely necessary to bring the virus to levels where infection rates are extremely low and deaths rare. But we need to take measures to prevent transmission consistently and strictly. Frequent screening, self-isolation when test-positive, tracing, physical distancing, hygiene, and masks, all working in concert are extremely effective at stopping transmissions. If we had been doing these things nationally, even starting in late February, we would be weeks ahead of where we are today.
May 15th, 2020, 11:01 AM
#125
In case anyone missed this article from a thread in the Lounge:
https://www.newyorker.com/science/me...en-for-reentry
https://www.newyorker.com/science/me...en-for-reentry
May 15th, 2020, 11:17 AM
#126
Original Poster
Originally Posted by Jean
The problem is that a lot of people DON'T sit at a safe distance from others. Perhaps on more remote beaches in the state, people do the right thing. But here, on my L.A.-area beach, there were large groups of people yesterday trying to set up their usual "day camps" on the sand. Most were not wearing masks (which is also a requirement), and it was clear that most were not family units that are living together but rather friends. Once you let couples and families park themselves, it becomes difficult if not impossible then to prevent the others from doing the same.
As with every baby step we take toward normalcy, give people an inch and they take a mile. It's like herding cats.
As with every baby step we take toward normalcy, give people an inch and they take a mile. It's like herding cats.
Plus, yeah, the cops have better things to do right now.
Last edited by mlgb; May 15th, 2020 at 11:45 AM.
May 15th, 2020, 04:02 PM
#127
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I don't think the hospitals are overwhelmed since the hospital ship "Mercy" just left San Pedro today to return to San Diego as all the extra beds were not needed.
On a happier note, did anyone see the Air Force Thunderbirds on TV do their flyover from San Diego to Santa Clarita via Orange and LA and Riverside counties in a salute to healthcare workers? Super impressive.
Garetti is stupid and I will not wear a mask when I am sitting outside on the sidewalk or walking a short distance. There are very few folks out in my hood and I can either walk around them in the street or vice versa.
On a happier note, did anyone see the Air Force Thunderbirds on TV do their flyover from San Diego to Santa Clarita via Orange and LA and Riverside counties in a salute to healthcare workers? Super impressive.
Garetti is stupid and I will not wear a mask when I am sitting outside on the sidewalk or walking a short distance. There are very few folks out in my hood and I can either walk around them in the street or vice versa.
May 15th, 2020, 04:53 PM
#128
The extra beds on the hospital ship came with many strings. It was pretty much a waste of time and money taking it up there.
Wearing a mask when you're around other people who are not in your household is not "stupid". That, physical distancing and washing your hands often are the most important things you can do to prevent the spread of the virus. When nobody's around, take it off, but have one ready in case someone comes along.
Wearing a mask when you're around other people who are not in your household is not "stupid". That, physical distancing and washing your hands often are the most important things you can do to prevent the spread of the virus. When nobody's around, take it off, but have one ready in case someone comes along.
May 15th, 2020, 06:37 PM
#129
One of our customers' husband is a doctor and he works in a 600 bed hospital. Two weeks ago they had 5 patients in the whole hospital. That is why hospitals will be in trouble.
But on the other hand, it's been good for my brother. He was in ICU from 4/13 until 4/28 and again (in critical condition) from 5/6 until 5/12. He is getting great care!
But on the other hand, it's been good for my brother. He was in ICU from 4/13 until 4/28 and again (in critical condition) from 5/6 until 5/12. He is getting great care!
May 15th, 2020, 09:32 PM
#130
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"My problem is these draconian rules are just encouraging people to revolt. Better to have reasonable rules that allow for social distancing and hygiene that people can understand instead of dictatorial fiats." YES ! Thank you, Janisj! No one here suggests not being safe and responsible to oneself and others. But the haphazard proclamations of some "leaders" makes it inevitalble that their rules/orders will be questioned...and in some cases legally challenged (as just happened in Wisconsin).
Neither I nor anyone I know, in reality or "virtually" has a problem following "the orders" when they make scientific sense, rather than seem to be a particular leader's whims. I mentioned just a few in my post above. Some of them indicate that interpretations of "science" vary. Some of that may be of course from differences between cities, states, etc; others make no sense whatsoever. Illinois rules--two family members on a boat ok, but the third family member, nope. Why?
I digress, as we are on the "California" board, but there's a post above re: Georgia: "Numbers are going up. A lot." Source of this information? I ask, because after "googling" all I found is "The Georgia Department of Public Health's COVID-19 dashboard indicates that both total and absolute numbers of daily cases and deaths have sharply declined since the opening. The seven-day moving average of new cases on Apr. 24 was 747, while average deaths were 35; as of May 13 those numbers had declined to 288 and 13, respectively." This is in the three weeks since the state reopened, despite assorted concerns, including DT's that the State's Governor was not following Federal "Opening Up America Again" guidelines. There were dire MSM headline accusations/predictions of sacrificing lives, and blood on the hands of Georgia's governor. Hopefully, case numbers do not "spike" beyond what is inevitable as more testing is done.
When wondering about scientific basis for forbidden sitting on the beach, I was thinking of the SoCal couple in their 90s who a few weeks ago--probably their first time outside in two months--set up folding chairs, with no one nearby at an unsafe distance from them. They were moved by police. Or a family who live indoors under the same roof (which is more and more recognized as less safe than being outdoors) wants to have a picnic. Or me, wanting to sit alone and enjoy the ocean sounds. I don't expect to attract a crowd congregating around me.
Gretchen, that is terrible about your son-in-law's businesses. Do you live in a state where restaurants are totally prevented from opening, even with safety measures in place?
Neither I nor anyone I know, in reality or "virtually" has a problem following "the orders" when they make scientific sense, rather than seem to be a particular leader's whims. I mentioned just a few in my post above. Some of them indicate that interpretations of "science" vary. Some of that may be of course from differences between cities, states, etc; others make no sense whatsoever. Illinois rules--two family members on a boat ok, but the third family member, nope. Why?
I digress, as we are on the "California" board, but there's a post above re: Georgia: "Numbers are going up. A lot." Source of this information? I ask, because after "googling" all I found is "The Georgia Department of Public Health's COVID-19 dashboard indicates that both total and absolute numbers of daily cases and deaths have sharply declined since the opening. The seven-day moving average of new cases on Apr. 24 was 747, while average deaths were 35; as of May 13 those numbers had declined to 288 and 13, respectively." This is in the three weeks since the state reopened, despite assorted concerns, including DT's that the State's Governor was not following Federal "Opening Up America Again" guidelines. There were dire MSM headline accusations/predictions of sacrificing lives, and blood on the hands of Georgia's governor. Hopefully, case numbers do not "spike" beyond what is inevitable as more testing is done.
When wondering about scientific basis for forbidden sitting on the beach, I was thinking of the SoCal couple in their 90s who a few weeks ago--probably their first time outside in two months--set up folding chairs, with no one nearby at an unsafe distance from them. They were moved by police. Or a family who live indoors under the same roof (which is more and more recognized as less safe than being outdoors) wants to have a picnic. Or me, wanting to sit alone and enjoy the ocean sounds. I don't expect to attract a crowd congregating around me.
Gretchen, that is terrible about your son-in-law's businesses. Do you live in a state where restaurants are totally prevented from opening, even with safety measures in place?
Last edited by CaliNurse; May 15th, 2020 at 09:36 PM.
May 15th, 2020, 10:22 PM
#131
Well, I guess Georgia's numbers are not going up. They're just still very high. How many people are actually going to go to eat in restaurants or get their nails done? You can open up whatever you want but if no customers come you'll be spending more money and still not making much. Customers won't go out in large enough numbers until they feel safe.
The "orders" as you put it, in California are nobody's "whims". They were and are well-grounded in science.
Please see Jean's post about sitting on the beach, #116. Like many of our laws, we have to have them to prevent a stupid minority from spoiling things for the rest of us, in this case from endangering the rest of us and especially your couple in their 90s.
This is the US board. There is no California board.
The "orders" as you put it, in California are nobody's "whims". They were and are well-grounded in science.
Please see Jean's post about sitting on the beach, #116. Like many of our laws, we have to have them to prevent a stupid minority from spoiling things for the rest of us, in this case from endangering the rest of us and especially your couple in their 90s.
This is the US board. There is no California board.
May 16th, 2020, 12:23 AM
#132
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Sorry, Barbara, I thought the USA board was divided by states, so that a question about California, for example, won't end up on the Wyoming board.
Can you tell me the "well-grounded science" (which seems to vary from leader to leader) in forbidding "my" 90 -plus year old couple from sitting alone on the beach? They are taking precautions while sitting, but not walking. Can you describe a scenario which causes them to be "endangered"? Maybe a passing viral particle, from a person walking by for one second?
Most regulations make sense. Even with those that seem arbitrary, I'll follow the rules, or not put myself in a position where I can't follow them But that doesn't mean I won't ask questions.
Can you tell me the "well-grounded science" (which seems to vary from leader to leader) in forbidding "my" 90 -plus year old couple from sitting alone on the beach? They are taking precautions while sitting, but not walking. Can you describe a scenario which causes them to be "endangered"? Maybe a passing viral particle, from a person walking by for one second?
Most regulations make sense. Even with those that seem arbitrary, I'll follow the rules, or not put myself in a position where I can't follow them But that doesn't mean I won't ask questions.
May 16th, 2020, 05:51 AM
#133
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I went to pick up take-out dinner last night from a local Thai restaurant. There were 3 groups dining in and a bunch of to-go orders ready for pickup. It was then that I realized what my own comfort zone is - I have to be moving. I will not yet go anyplace where I'm stationary, like a restaurant or movie theater. I have to be able to move away from other people by my choice. If someone gets too close to me at the grocery store, I simply move (while glaring at them of course), if I'm in a restaurant eating at a table, where am I supposed to go?
May 16th, 2020, 06:23 AM
#134
Originally Posted by sf7307
I went to pick up take-out dinner last night from a local Thai restaurant. There were 3 groups dining in and a bunch of to-go orders ready for pickup. It was then that I realized what my own comfort zone is - I have to be moving. I will not yet go anyplace where I'm stationary, like a restaurant or movie theater. I have to be able to move away from other people by my choice. If someone gets too close to me at the grocery store, I simply move (while glaring at them of course), if I'm in a restaurant eating at a table, where am I supposed to go?
May 16th, 2020, 07:01 AM
#135
CaliNurse, You can sort by state if you want to read only posts that are specifically tagged for California. But threads for every state reside on the same branch, here on the general United States forum.
May 16th, 2020, 07:21 AM
#136
CaliNurse, I completely agree with your wanting to ask questions. We absolutely need to ask questions.
Personally, though, I prefer asking those questions of people who are qualified to answer them -- or at least people who seek and take advice from people who are qualified to answer.
Which, of course, does not include Donald Trump, as I'm sure you, being a nurse and a person who respects science, would agree.
Personally, though, I prefer asking those questions of people who are qualified to answer them -- or at least people who seek and take advice from people who are qualified to answer.
Which, of course, does not include Donald Trump, as I'm sure you, being a nurse and a person who respects science, would agree.
May 16th, 2020, 07:46 AM
#137
There are more than science-based reasons for some of the rules. The people to be asking questions about reopening should also include police, fire and other first responders because they are the ones who have to deal with those who think the rules don't apply. In small towns like mine, which gets visitors from surrounding areas, we don't have large enough police and fire departments to be assigning personnel to monitor all of the beach and city parks in addition to their regular duties.
May 16th, 2020, 10:07 AM
#139
Originally Posted by CaliNurse
Sorry, Barbara, I thought the USA board was divided by states, so that a question about California, for example, won't end up on the Wyoming board.
Can you tell me the "well-grounded science" (which seems to vary from leader to leader) in forbidding "my" 90 -plus year old couple from sitting alone on the beach? They are taking precautions while sitting, but not walking. Can you describe a scenario which causes them to be "endangered"? Maybe a passing viral particle, from a person walking by for one second?
Most regulations make sense. Even with those that seem arbitrary, I'll follow the rules, or not put myself in a position where I can't follow them But that doesn't mean I won't ask questions.
Can you tell me the "well-grounded science" (which seems to vary from leader to leader) in forbidding "my" 90 -plus year old couple from sitting alone on the beach? They are taking precautions while sitting, but not walking. Can you describe a scenario which causes them to be "endangered"? Maybe a passing viral particle, from a person walking by for one second?
Most regulations make sense. Even with those that seem arbitrary, I'll follow the rules, or not put myself in a position where I can't follow them But that doesn't mean I won't ask questions.
https://covid19.ca.gov/
Donald Trump, on the other hand is not a leader and wouldn't know "grounded in science" if it got up and smacked him. He only wants people to tell him what he wants to hear and if you don't do that, he fires you. This is why Trump has low approval ratings.
As for your little 90-plus couple sitting on the beach, something I love to do too, how long do you really believe they would be the only two people sitting on the beach? When others saw them, they would either think it was allowed or they'd think if that old couple can, so can they. Very quickly, the beach would fill up with varying sizes of groups of people. For sure, many of the groups would not be people in one household. Many of them wouldn't bother wearing masks because, well they're at the beach nobody will get sick there. There will be balls thrown, possibly close to your couple, most likely people they don't know sitting too close to them, all laughing and talking loudly. All throwing out masses of potentially lethal (for your 90-plus couple) droplet spray. To avoid that scenario and to avoid having police and lifeguards having to deal with the people and the potential consequences to their own health, we can't sit or be in groups other than people in your own household on the beach.
May 16th, 2020, 10:23 AM
#140
Originally Posted by Barbara
. . . As for your little 90-plus couple sitting on the beach, something I love to do too, how long do you really believe they would be the only two people sitting on the beach? When others saw them, they would either think it was allowed or they'd think if that old couple can, so can they. Very quickly, the beach would fill up with varying sizes of groups of people. For sure, many of the groups would not be people in one household. Many of them wouldn't bother wearing masks because, well they're at the beach nobody will get sick there. There will be balls thrown, possibly close to your couple, most likely people they don't know sitting too close to them, all laughing and talking loudly. All throwing out masses of potentially lethal (for your 90-plus couple) droplet spray. To avoid that scenario and to avoid having police and lifeguards having to deal with the people and the potential consequences to their own health, we can't sit or be in groups other than people in your own household on the beach.
