nkd

'A seemingly ideal day of sailing along a calm but busy mountain lake turned abruptly tragic Sunday when a tour boat carrying a group of senior citizens overturned, killing 21 people and injuring dozens more.'

SuzieTrue

A good reason why you must WEAR the lifejackets provided. The boat flipped in only 30 seconds so no one had time to get the lifejackets that were on the boat.

starrsville

I cannot believe that those in walkers and wheelchairs did not have lifevests on. What were the leaders of the group thinking?

wliwl

This is just SO tragic. How terribly sad for all those people.

Lake George is really just a small community, it will have a terrible impact there.

radiofanatic

I was in town there when it happened yesterday. Another thing I don't understand is why you would only have one crew member (a 70 some year old one at that) with a group of 49, especially when they are senior citizens who have difficulty moving fast as shown by their wheelchairs and walkers.

Patrick

"I cannot believe that those in walkers and wheelchairs did not have lifevests on."

Huh? While that seems like a logical statement, I've been on dozens of tour boats over the years and most have them had senior citizens. I can't recall ever seeing the seniors, even the ones in wheelchairs or with walkers with life vests on.

This is a sad event, but it is foolish to be surprised that they weren't wearing life vests.

cd

IMO this was a matter of the boat having more weight on one side then the other, being top heavy with not enought ballast. In that case, a wake that is strong could either tip it or swamp it and cause it to turtle. Personaly, I think 50 people on a 40ft boat, unless it has a lot of ballast, is way too much.

Orcas

I agree with Patrick and CD. The operator is required to have enough life jackets for everyone on board, but adults are not required to wear a life jacket on a forty foot boat. We have a 42 ft boat and only require small children to wear life jackets. Our boat has a rail around it. This boat was completely enclosed. Even if people had worn life jackets, that wouldn't have helped the people trapped inside.

The fault lies with the physics, I suspect. A sea-worthy boat simply should not flip from the wake of another boat. The boat must have been top heavy. And 49 people seems like an awful lot to me, as well.

jorr

Unbelievable. I NEVER let my aging parents into my boat unless they have their life jackets on ON THE DOCK BEFORE THEY GET INTO THE BOAT. What kind of fool would let this tragic thing happen?

SuzieTrue

jorr,

You are absolutely correct! A top officer in the company my husband works for drowned a number of years ago while out fishing on Lake Michigan. He had on heavy boots and warm clothes but NO LIFEJACKET. He reached over the railing to net a fish and fell in. The only other person on the boat was his wife who did not know how to operate the boat. You never know when something might happen on the water.

SuzieTrue

Orcas

It is NOT common practice for adults to wear life jackets in that size of boat. Would you wear a life jacket on a cruise ship? While I realize this was not a cruise ship, the law distinguishes between requirements for life jackets based largely on the size of the boat. Life jackets are required for smaller boats. Anyone in a smaller fishing boat is required to wear life jackets. Anyone on a smaller power boat, in a kayak or canoe, should be wearing a life jacket. We always wear life jackets when we go in the dinghy, which is the small inflatable boat we carry with our larger boat.

The boat should not have flipped over. Why it flipped is the issue, not whether or not the people were wearing life jackets.

cd

Agree with Orcas. We boated 8 seasons on Lake Michigan and never once had on a jacket. But then we had a 40ft sailboat with 16,000 pounds of ballast, she would never have flipped. MAYBE in a really bad storm, but then she would have popped back up. It sounds as if the boat just was not safe for that many people.
OR, what do you think Orca, could one of the thru hulls opened up?

wliwl

Here is a picture of the boat:
http://www.lakegeorgeshoreline.com/b...thanallen.html

I have to say, I'd probably get on there without a life jacket. Especially since it was a totally calm day. And I wear a life jacket in my kayak no matter where I am or how deep the water is. It's sort of like a seatbelt. It's a habit.

Orcas

I don't know. I wonder how this boat was constructed. Do you think it was on pontoons? Maybe the bottom was mostly flat. Maybe water, combined with the 49 adults, some with heavy wheel chairs or other equipment on top, could have contributed to it flipping. Maybe everyone started sliding to one side when it hit the wave, contributing to the tipping. I feel so badly for all those people and their families. Carpe diem!

cd

The picture does not look like pontoons. She looks like a flat bottom boat.

starrsville

Yowzer! Slammed by Patrick. Ouch.

I don't think it's the responsibility of the boat operator to require them to wear lifevests. It's not state law and it's not his/her responsibility.

As I said, I can't believe the leaders of the group helped elderly in walkers and wheelchairs on a boat and did not put lifevests on them. If they aren't mobile on land, it's a good bet they won't be mobile in water. I own and operate a boat for personal use and if there is someone that I think is not capable of treading water for an extended period of time for any reason, they WEAR the vest or don't come on the boat. Period.

I was a lifeguard for years and Water Safety Instructor. I hopefully will be able to help 1 person - but not several.

To compare such a tour boat with a cruise ship is ludicrous.

OO

I was looking at video of the boat (Mohican) that some have pointed fingers at. The wake doesn't look all that extreme, at least not in that video. We've certainly experienced bigger wakes just with the big mamas which come zooming into our bay, headed to the marina gas pumps.

A former capt of the Ethan Allen said she tended to list a bit to the left because of the seating configuration on the deck. Assume they were also making a sharp left turn (they have said it was in the process of turning around when it happened) and they took a big wake on the starboard side...I can see it going over possibly. It went fast and it sounds as if it sank fast too, which seems odd, unless it had taken on water...as in a through hull, cd? It'd have to be a big one though.

I agree that that number of people seems like a lot for a 40 foot boat, but boats used for commercial tours have to be Coast Guard approved to carry a number safe for the vessel and you have to assume they are right--that is their job. Coast Guard inspections are stringent...to the extreme!

Have to agree too, that on a calm sunny day on a lake on a 40 ft boat, there is no way on God's Green Earth those people would be in their life jackets. That's just not going to happen--nor should it. Actually with a life jacket, when that thing rolls with people inside they are going to have a heck of a time getting out with a jacket on...they will be pushed to the highest point within the boat and only a strong swimmer could get down to get out again.

We virtually never wear life jackets on our 30' sailboat unless there is a storm coming, but I guarantee, I will not leave the shore without one in a canoe, kayak, or our little Force 5. That would be foolhardy, but not a 40'er! Size does matter!

I'm thinking they'll find a series of unfortunate coincidences coming together at the same time resulting in this tragedy.

I've heard, by the way, that there were only 14 people from the seniors tour on the boat...it wasn't a boatload of seniors.

Patrick

starrsville, I wouldn't call that statement of mine a slam, just a difference of opinion. But I must admit at the time I was picturing a different kind of boat when it was called a "tour boat" and knowing there were over 40 people on board. Still, I live very near a marina in Naples where there are tour boats going out daily -- different style, but not much bigger -- and I have yet to ever see any senior adults (which accounts for a big percentage of the passengers) wearing life vests. And I've been on dozens of lake and river boats all over the US and Europe where I never saw anyone wearing a life vest either. It simply isn't normal procedure for a tour boat. I think comparing this situation to taking grandma and grandpa out on a family runabout is just about as lucicrous as comparing it to a cruise ship (well, I did say JUST ABOUT).

Orcas

Hey guys, I qualified the cruise ship reference. My point was simpy that, over a certain size, one assumes safety. 40 feet should be well over that size, and life jacket law reflects this. There was something seriously wrong with this boat and the way it was operated!

JJ5

It has to be a matter of weight, especially with all the mobility equipment. There was just too much weight on that vessel.

We are on a small lake all the time and all the kids or jetski operators or skiiers wear the jackets continually as they could be "knocked out" with their activity. But those of us who are not skiing or just operating the boat do not. We need to have them IN the boat (on the backs of our seats) by law. All the fishermen do NOT wear their lifevests all the time by us but keep them on their chair or bench, as well. And there are logical reasons why.

The law in NY did not require them to be wearing lifevests.

I wouldn't stay on my boat for hours if I had to wear the lifevest all the time. It's too hot for one thing. I can swim across the lake without a vest, and find getting 10 feet with a vest on MUCH MUCH harder than without one.

In fact, I and my ex-husband who was NOT a swimmer saved 4 kids on a canoe once by my holding them up and attaching them to their overturned canoe while he subsequently dragged the whole structure with his oar and some rope. We always keep lines or oars handy- always. Having a lifevest on makes it MORE difficult to move to save others. Non-swimmers should wear lifevests all the time, but they don't.

I've been on numerous tour boats that did not require any life vest wear- just in storage. Lake Tahoe's has a marvelous one, for instance. And all the tour boats on Lake Michigan don't have people wearing vests- just in storage. Having lifevests on wouldn't have helped the great majority of victims one bit as they were encapsulated underwater.