fleurdelisa

Thank you for your excellent post. I recently did a Burgundy bike tour with Duvine and fortunately had 2 outstanding guides, but would like to try other bike tour companies for comparison. My plan for next year is to bike either Puglia or Piedmont with Ciclismo Classico and the following year do Napa Valley with Backroads. I know you were hesitant to offer opinions on companies you haven't travelled with, but I was hoping with your extensive cycling vacation experience you may have some insight into Ciclismo Classico. I checked the comparison website you mentioned and the reviews were very short and not very helpful.

AlessandraZoe

Fleurdelisa,

All I know about Ciclismo Classico is through word of mouth by true cyclist friends. They really enjoy Ciclismo--including the fact that it's run by women! They feel it's a tougher biking crowd than say, Backroads, although they have truly enjoyed Backroads.

When I had asked them about comparing the two, they said that Ciclismo is still very independent biking, as is Backroads. It's just amped up.

I think I need to compare trip styles that people may like and/or look for. Both DuVine trips I've been on have been "clump" cycling. We had to stop for group pictures all the time, which drove me nuts, too. Some people may enjoy that they promote this sort of one for all, all for one thing, but that is not MY thing. I really am pretty social--it's one of the reasons I like these trips--but if I wanted "forced fun", I'd go on a cruise.

I want to cycle fast by myself, then stop at a bakery and see what's cooking. I pull out my bird books if I see something in a tree that interests me. My husband, traveling miles ahead, wants to do a quick expresso stop in the morning and a quick beer stop in the afternoon--BY HIMSELF, not with the group.

I've ALWAYS been able to do that on a Backroads trip; I couldn't even stop to pee on this one with DuVine without checking in.

So CC, according to my buddies, will provide those same freedom-of-choice options, but since there is an expectation that you will bike faster and longer, then you have to make sure you can step up.

AGAIN I HAVE NOT CYCLED WITH CC. My buddies could be totally lying

By the way, I wanted to do Puglia again, only this time with one of my daughters. It isn't spoiled yet, and I wanted to go again sooner rather than later. So having done a trip there with Backroads, I assumed I'd go with a different company, but find just as good of routing.

Hmmm, I was surprised. I went over the routing each company offered. The Casual Inns tour of Backroads, which we took,NOT the Backroads Premiere trip, had what I considered to be the best routing.

We went in September, so we had the advantage that some of the seasonal places were just thinking about closing up shop for the year, but not quite yet; however, the crowds that flock there in the summer had vanished.

Good luck with any decision you make.

fleurdelisa

This information is so helpful... Thank you. I know that the Ciclismo daily routes all seem to be longer than Backroads but I'm not sure I want to be doing 30-35 miles a day for 7 days with a bunch of hard core bikers! Especially since I live in a very flat area and hill training is nearly impossible.

After your reviews, I may just decide to go with Backroads. I do totally agree with your Duvine assessment regarding the rest stops. I hated stopping every 30 minutes for snacks, foliage updates, and wine drinking. And the daily 2 hour lunches with copious amount of wine, while fun, were not my preferred way to cycle an area.

I really appreciate your insight, and am looking forward to my next cycling trip. It really was the most fun I've ever had on a vacation...and going to Burgundy and Paris without gaining a pound was an added bonus!

AlessandraZoe

To be fair, I am going to assume that even Backroads and B&R do things a little differently on their Burgundy tours as opposed to their others. Since there are not a lot of climbs in the area and there ARE an awful lot of vineyards, Burgundy itself dictates the style, I think.

I will still give DuVine kudos for food and free wine.

But then again, I remember an amazing lunch spread on our Backroads Puglia tour for which we felt free to eat a zillion calories in 20 minutes and then get back on the road. Other guests felt just as free to spend well over an hour there.

At the end of the trip, my husband and I chilled over massive bottles of beer on the coast with the locals and took pictures of everyone in the group coming in. All of us had a great day--we all got to do it a bit differently.

One caveat about the Backroads Puglia Casual Inns--I really did not enjoy our accommodations all that much. They WERE all air-conditioned, but they were not the Ritz. But darn it, I compared the routing on that trip to their Premiere trip, and the Casual was sterling.

If I see my bike buddies that do CC, I'll quiz them a bit more for you.

fleurdelisa

One of the things that appealed to me about Ciclismo was the longer (7-8 nights) trips in Puglia and Piedmont. I figure if I have to pack all my bike gear, I might as well maximize its use. Just out of curiosity, have you ever done a Piedmont trip? I would really like to visit Milan and Turin so right now this is probably at the top of my list. My main concern there is the difficulty level of the cycling. The Backroads trip there is much lighter on mileage, but the Ciclismo trip (Land of Barolo and Truffles) there is their longest running trip and I think the guides would have extensive contacts in the region and perhaps provide a better overall travel experience there.

If your friends can provide any additional information, I would love to hear it.

AlessandraZoe

We have never done a Piedmont trip. I think I would rather just visit Milan and Turin on their own, though.

I totally understand your wish for a longer trip, and that consideration was certainly one of the reasons I was looking at CC. We were so sorry to see that Backroads had started to shorten it's former "long" tours: Turkey, New Zealand South Ireland; etc.

We actually have done back-to-back trips frequently for that reason (ie, West Coast Ireland with Southwest Ireland). Once we did a Backroads/Backroads back-to-back, but we usually back up one company's trip to a different company's trip with a day or two in between to wash clothes and complete transportation to start locales.

I will pump my friends for

AlessandraZoe

information about CC when I see them, though. Promise.

jewels5

Thank you so much for your very informative posts! My husband and I are planning our first bike vacation. We are looking at the Pyrenees to Costa Brava trip with Backroads in late Sept or early Oct 2014. Have you done this trip or a similar trip with another company? We would appreciate any information, tips or suggestions you may have. Thank you!!

AlessandraZoe

We have not done this trip yet, but we plan to do so this upcoming fall. I'll let you know how it goes.

As to tips, hmm. Well I guess three things come to mind:

<b>Training</b>--take a look at the longest option mileage on the longest day BEFORE you go and make sure you are COMFORTABLE riding at least ONE HALF of that distance with some type of elevation gain at home.

Here's what I mean... For a trip where the longest option mileage is 60 miles, I know I really only have to be able to pound in 30 miles on hills comfortably at home before I go to make the trip feasible for me.

To train for that, we have a really tough five mile loop around a lake nearby with significant climbs that range from really steep short climbs to a solid two-mile climb. I simply work up to six times around that, trying to decrease the time it takes to complete the loop.

Then when I'm on the actual trip where the bike is supported with fresh water and snacks with a nice lunch in between, I can easily do 45 to 60 miles over the course of a day.

<b>Packing</b>--We are big believers in keeping our packing light, and we carry blow-up hangers,a stretchy drying line and powdered Tide for washing everything in the hotel room sink. Your suitcase has to handle your biking gloves, your pedals or seat or whatever equipment you are adding to the mix, plus rain gear, so at least you can limit the clothing to lighten to load.

Example: For a six-day cycle trip in hot weather, we pack three short-sleeve cycling tops that we simply wash out at night, plus three to four biking shorts (it takes time for those puppies to dry out). For evenings at dinner, a good pair of black washable slacks and interchangeable tops with sweater suit all occasions.


<b>Easy daily carry method</b>: I always carry a waterproof fold-up daypack and spare bungee cords that I break out of the luggage as soon as we get our bikes. Before I leave for breakfast in the morning, I pack my needs in there--credit cards, cash, maybe rain gear, tissue paper, camera--and I can then just push the bag into the biking bag or bungee it onto the back rack on the bike. That way, when we lock our bikes up in a town to explore, I simply just pull my pack out of the bag or off the rack.

jewels5

Thank you so much for this very helpful information! If you don't mind, I have a few questions about your upcoming Spain trip. Are you using Backroads? If so, did you choose to stay in casual inns or premiere inns? Why did you make that decision? What week are you going? Is there a reason you choose this week (weather, crowds, ect)? We are really looking forward to a review of your trip! Have a wonderful time!

AlessandraZoe

This specific Spain trip is Premiere, but we've done Casual a elsewhere. I thought the Puglia Casual and Provence Casual (at the time we took them)had better routing than the Premiere.

We are going end of Sept, beginning of Oct.

We chose this general time frame because a)that is the next time my husband can take off and b) I do not want to do Spain in July.

But for the precise trip, it's a matter of which days can I use my miles/airline status to get two Business Class seats for the price of coach. I'm not kidding. If I can make that seat availability work with a Backroads trip, great. If I have to go with VBT, fine.

With my husband's requesting we limit ourselves to one "rest" day before we start the tour and one "rest" day after we end the tour now, you can see why I have to be flexible about the type of trip and the company.

jewels5

We are anxiously awaiting a review of your Spain trip. When you have time, please share your thoughts. Thanks!!

AlessandraZoe

I'm happy you posted. I totally forgot I did not update.

This Pyrenees to Costa Brava Backroads trip was certainly in our top five of all time.

First, there were no hard connections. Fly to Barcelona; fly out of Barcelona. Shuttle to beginning of trip; shuttle at the end of the trip.

Second, the accommodations were really nice. Yeah, because Europe doesn't really do cookie-cutter rooms, you have no idea ahead of time whether or not you'll draw the straw for the Presidential Suite or the Attic Access Suite, but the last stop at the Mas Torrent Spa gives you uniform nice rooms in a great setting.

Third, there were two (2) two-night stays in the five nights. That sequencing adds so much to relaxation when you have time to wash out your smelly bike clothes.

Fourth, there was a great mixture of scenery and culture. Everyone on the trip fell in love with Catalonia. And while we may not have fallen in love with Dali, we all got to know him.

Fifth, the biking routes were endlessly beautiful. No endless stretches of sun; no hills for hills' sake. Varied; interesting.

Sixth, hidden places for sudden coffee and beer stops on the route.

Things we can't guarantee but loved:
--Our Backroads guides are always good; this trip, they were great. I wanted to take them home with me.
--Our guests were seasoned. They either biked well or KNEW THEY DID NOT BIKE WELL. That helps the guides serve the long-distance riders better.

I liked this trip so much that I immediately emailed past trip members who enjoy long routes. One emailed back immediately that she seconded our rec. She considered this trip to be Top Five also.

I hope this helps. I posted our Barcelona before and after here:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-barcelona.cfm

jewels5

Thank you! A few questions...We loved reading your post about Barcelona. Have you posted details of the biking portion of the trip somewhere? How would you rate the difficulty of the Spain trip? We live on the plains of MN and have very limited opportunity to climb hills, let alone mountains. We get plenty of miles in from April to October but are concerned about the climbing demands of this trip. What are your top 5 bike trips??

AlessandraZoe

The details I listed above are as much as I normally share about any trip for good reasons.

First, there are companies that have stolen routes--we're talking EXACT biking directions--from Backroads, VBT and other companies, and I've made sure over the years I've not been party to that theft in any manner. Most, if not all, of my cycling trip write-ups have concentrated only on the pre- and post-trip portions because those portions are the only parts where I have been the responsible planner, and therefore, that information is not proprietary.

That does not mean you can't find out information about any offered trip. You can go to www.backroads.com (or www.vbt.com etc) read the extensive information they offer there for any of their trips (including cycling difficulty), and you can also request an emailed itinerary. Most of these companies list their accommodations in their itineraries, and you can research, as I do, all of those via Trip Advisor before you book.

Second, the details are flat-out boring if you are not on the trip. What I did each day will vary markedly from what my husband did each day. My coffee at mile 12 after my struggle up a hill was being drunk while my husband was in a local bar drinking beer after mile 30. In other words, for the most part, my daily details would be useless. And I hate being around people who measure their lives in how many miles they cycled per hour at what grade.

I do hear you about the hill concern. A lot of the people on this past trip do not have much opportunity for hill climbing, and I'd say most people did quite well. There are several ways to compensate. Two possibles:

1) There usually is SOME hill somewhere, even in flat areas, and going up and down it repeatedly for an hour or so on a regular basis is quite helpful. For example, we needed to train our children for hills when young, and we did not want to have them on the road until they were confident. We have an industrial park with one 1/4 mile steep grade. At least once a weekend, we'd do a loop in the relatively flat park, go up and down that hill twice, do another loop, do up and down that hill twice, do another loop, go up and down that hill twice... You get the drift. We all did hills fine on trips as a result.

2) If you bike in areas where there's likely to be headwinds (a problem in flat areas), regularly cycling INTO the wind is fabulous training.

Otherwise, your choices are to look for flat terrain trips or tell yourself, "I'm willing to ride in the van" or "I'm good at walking my bike up a hill". I now excel at both.

Our top five trips...Hmm. We have arguments about what were the best cycling trips, and often, weather or group make-up plays a parts in how one views it. So a trip that could have been great could be ruined by 24/7 rain* or a whiney group.
<i>* For example, Backroads Provence Casual would have been great--the routing was wonderful and the group was fun--but the combination of an out-of-season mistral (try doing THAT headwind UP a hill) and the nearly 100-degree heat 24/7 with no shade for miles pretty much took the fun out of it. </i>

So without order, our generally agreed upon top favorites are...
-Backroads Pyrenees to Costa Brava Premiere
-Bike Ireland (now Discovery Tours) West Coast Ireland
-Backroads New Zealand South Island Premiere (note--still ranks high even WITH torrential rain for most of the trip)

Those were outstanding ones. In the next grouping without ranking...
-Backroads Puglia Casual
-Backroads Cork and Kerry Premiere (would have been in the top grouping except that fellow cyclists were especially demanding and whiney--they nearly drove bike guides nuts)
-Backroads Brittany and Normandy Premiere(took it when it was a 10-day trip, and the itinerary was very different than it is now).

One other tip: The people who do best on these trips are people who understand there are no guarantees of happiness. This past trip, one of the guides was almost overcome by emotion because he heard over and over again, "Aren't we lucky to be able to see this?" and "Well, I made it halfway up the hill, and I'm calling that a victory" and "That's not rain--it's just filtered sun". In other words, most of the people on the trip--most of whom had done almost as many trips as we had--went out of their way to find positives.

GreatExplorations

Great writing- you seem to have a great attitude about bike travel. I've been guiding cycling trips for over 30 years including 18 yrs for B&R. I started Great Explorations 15 years ago, and still enjoy guiding 5-7 trips each year (this year Catalonia, Piemonte, Tuscany, Puglia, Croatia & Canadian Rockies). Here are my current favourite trips: Piemonte; Provence; Croatia; Morocco; Vietnam. It's great to hear you have had so many positive experiences. I agree it's the people that make the trip!

Happy cycling

AlessandraZoe

I wanted to update this thread because I did have opportunity to talk about Ciclismo Classico with a few cyclists shortly before Xmas. They enjoy Backroads, but because they consider themselves "real" cyclists, they prefer Ciclismo Classico. Points they made:

--They love their Ciclismo Classico bikes; however, they also really like the new Backroads bikes (I hate them--but then again, I'm not a "real" cyclist).
--They feel they get more bang for their buck in terms of cycling on Ciclismo Classico. Their point (well taken) is that if one has paid $$$$ to get to the destination, then the extra day(s)and part of a day Ciclismo Classico is of great value.
--They like being with people who are interested in challenges 24/7. Both of the Ciclismo Classico guests I talked to seem to enjoy any of us in the wimp wagon, but they really did want to talk about the hard parts of the day over their beers.

Here's a disclaimer--I HAVE NOT BEEN ON A Ciclismo Classico trip! These generalizations may be true or untrue. But I'd say that the other people that I know who travel with Ciclismo Classico would fall into that "real cyclist" category.

Another update:
--Backroads has increased the number of support staff/vans over time. It used to be ONE van and two guides was the rule. I'd say two guides, one driver, and at least two vans is the newer rule. On our last trip, because of the difficult routing, they even pulled in another van one day.
--Backroads will be adding e-bikes (motor for a "push" up a hill). I have mixed feelings about that, so if I'm ever on a trip with these things, I'll report back.

I hope this is helpful.

jimmy_davids

We took a bicycle tour along the wonderful Canal Du Midi in the south of France this past summer. We booked our tour with Eurobike.at but the actual tour was done by another company, Ruckenwind (http://www.rueckenwind.de/en ) from Germany. The scenery was beautiful and the daily distances travelled were good, neither too far nor not far enough. The path was level with no hills to climb. We cycled in a group but without tour guide. This is not a guided tour, but we knew that before we started. What we did not know is that everybody in our group spoke German and little English. Upon closer reflection, we should have known that German was going to be the language of choice as both Eurobike.at and Ruckenwind are from German speaking countries (Austria and Germany). Unfortunally, the guidebook given to us was also in German. But since we were in a group, we just followed behind the others and thus really had no need for any guidebook or map. However, it also did not allow us to set our own pace or schedule. The Germans like to wake up early, probably due to fact that they did not suffer from jet-lag. A lovely Swiss couple helped us translate parts of the guidebook that talked about history, which was very nice of them to do.
We were, however, more dissapointed in the bikes we were rented (note: the tour prices on their website do not include an actual bike; they assume you bring your own). The bikes were not comfortable for the towpaths along the Canal Du Midi. The towpaths were not paved in most parts, and the bikes had neither a suspension fork nor seat suspension to help smooth out the ride. We were quite sore for the entire trip! Everybody on the trip had the same problem. I took some pictures of the bikes, so you can see what we rode. Pictures link: http://s1314.photobucket.com/user/ji...83945.jpg.html The ruckenwind website shows in fact the same bikes. They were not in the best condition, and they looked like they were stored outside all year.
Another problem we had about Ruckenwind was that their website claimed that their entire route was sign posted with their own private signs. Maybe they are in their other routes in Germany, but we did not see any signs during our trip. We asked the Ruckenwind representative about this when we returned the bicycles, and he actually told us that their website was indeed wrong and that there are no Ruckenwind signs along the route. He said it was something that the webmaster had to correct, but as of this date no changes have been made to their website… We certainly felt deceived by this false claim. The van support was also not true. We never saw the van, only during the first and last days of our trip. When we got a flat tire, we had to change it ourselves.
The hotels were very good for the first three nights, but quickly become less attractive as the trip progressed. After getting back home I went on booking.com and found that we could have easily booked the same hotels ourselves and saved several 100 dollars / euros by doing so.
In summary we think the trip was great with beautiful scenery and nice weather. The problems were with the bicycles (poor quality, uncomfortable, noisy), the false claim of route being sign-posted (no signs anywhere), lack of van-support (no van seen) and the high price (cheaper to book own hotels online). Would I recommend trip to friend? Yes, mainly due to scenery and climate.

AlessandraZoe

Thank you so much, Jimmy, for adding to this thread with such a complete description. I have often looked at Eurobike, and I have specifically looked at the Canal du Midi. It is so helpful to know the actualities.

As I have indicated above, we probably would have done many self-guided tours in earlier years because we knew we did not tax guides with our needs. What always caused us to hesitate was the doubt about the actual bike we would get. Whenever we'd to a day or two days rental locally in Ireland and France, our bike quality was usually rather awful.

Again, kudos for adding in so much detail!

InSituTravel

Thank you AlessandraZoe for such a thorough series of posts regarding guided bike tours. As you're probably well aware, there is rarely a good spot to review multi-day, guided bike tours on the top travel review sites, such as Fodor's and Tripadvisor. It's nice to see that you've taken the initiative to not only review several companies and trips, but to follow up with specific examples and honest opinions. This post is a great resource for people wanting to understand how bike tours function day to day and what things to consider before choosing a company with which to travel. Justifiably, your post is right near the top of Google for the term, "bike tour reviews". Thank you again for your reviews. The industry needs more guests sharing their experiences in the public forum.