barefootbeach

Wow, those photos are beautiful mlgb! Thanks to both of you for more info about the hikes. I really would like to spend a night in Puerto Natales, but it doesn't seem to make much sense because it's so close to the park. Think it would be better to add the night to Las Torres (4 its instead of 3) because it doesn't really reduce the drive to Punta Arenas by much to stay in PN. Unless, someone thinks I can see something cool from there rather than inside the park.

I also was considering, if we decided to do all inclusive at Las Torres, to take the transfer to El Calafate from there, stay for a few nights, then fly to Ushuaia and do the cruise in reverse to Punta Arenas. Then, we'd fly back to Santiago from there...rather than flying to Buenos Aires on the way home. I'm not sure I want to add that many more nights to Patagonia though (it would be 1 in PA, 3 in TdP, 3 in El Calafate, and the 4nt cruise through the glaciers and Tierra del Fuego. Do you think what we'd see at El Calafate is dramatically different/better than what we'll see at TdP and the cruise?

mlgb

odie, congrats for seeing the Magellanic Woodpecker on your walk! Speaking of birds, I'll plug www.birdschile.com We liked the owner Raffaelle for a day tour off the cruise stop in Puerto Montt, they apparently have a storefront in Puerto Varas.

I haven't been and can't offer advice on the redundancy of the Argentina side of Patagonia, but I asked those who were on a tour and saw Perito Moreno if they thought it was worth seeing both glaciers, and they said 'not really'.

In Torres del Paine I don't recommend doing the navigation to Glacier Grey, unless you decide to go all inclusive with Las Torres (it's one of the longer drives and most expensive of their excursions if you try to buy it separately).

I liked PN and the view from the lakeside is pretty. But, I only stayed there to do the Utima Esperanza day cruise, and then take a van tour/transfer into TdP. In your case, op, that seems unnecessary! I think a few hours would be enough, if you are driving, or as a break between buses.

I think flying round trip to Santiago might work out to lesser cost, either in points or $$. I also much preferred Valparaiso to Buenos Aires, (4 nights was about 3 too many for me). I wish I had used those extra days at my BA end to go to Iguassu Falls instead.

I allotted a lot of time for TdP because I was doing a version of the W and wanted to allow for lost bad weather days Luckily I only really had the one bad one. I did manage to hike to the Towers from Las Torres, but I was mid-50's when I did it and now I probably wouldn't try it, but am glad I did it then, since we actually saw the 95% of the Towers, except for the very tops.

I was in Ushuaia in their austral autumn last year, it was so pretty with the view of the snow dusted mountains and the trees in the park were changing colors..I hope you have at least a full day there to visit Tierra del Fuego NP.

barefootbeach

mlgb, once more you've given me some additional useful nuggets of info to help in my decision making. Decided against seeing El Calafate also...would rather have time to see Valparaiso. I would rather not fly home from BA but now that we end up in Ushuaia, it's easier/cheaper to fly to BA from there rather than back to Santiago. I think I will spend one night there after the cruise., but I'm not sure I'll visit Tierra del Fuego NP as we'll have seen a lot of similar scenery. I'm not excited about spending time in BA either, maybe just one night to prepare for intl flight home. Thanks for info on PN...think we'll just stop for lunch on way to PA/

mlgb

Of all the major cities in South America that I've visited (Lima, Bogota, Santiago, Quito, Montevideo and Buenos Aires), BA is the only one that I didn't like. Others opinions will differ. I think neighborhood choice is important (I chose Palermo Soho, very run down eg broken sidewalks covered with dog crap, non=artistic graffiti on security shutters and lots of ugly 70s? era apartment blocks. If you have points with Hyatt, my friend's room at Palacio Duhau Park Hyatt was nice.

barefootbeach

mlgb...been to BA about 20 years ago on a business trip and stayed at the Alvear Palace in Recoleta....saw the highlights then and have no desire to return...think it's gone downhill since then. However, I REALLY didn't like Quito at all...felt very unsafe there. Maybe we can just find an airport hotel in BA and leave the next day.

mlgb

And take the day gained and add it elsewhere!
I agree that Quito can "feel" unsafe in the wrong parts, and has a bad reputation which at least makes one cautious and probably safer.St ill there is a lot to see, reasonably good food (or at least to my taste), friendly people as a rule and a beautiful setting. I liked it better on my first visit, in 2015 I spent a few nights on the way in and out of the airport or to take buses to other parts of Ecuador... and twice stayed near the new Quito airport a few times, where there are some good choices.

Maybe there is something nice out by the international airport in BA, I have no idea.

You probably have to drive across town anyways if the one flight comes in at AEP, so maybe staying out near Puerto Madero and walking around the Costanero Sur Ecological Reserve would be an option.. It's almost like you aren't even IN Buenos Aires.

odie1

mlgb- I saw two more woodpeckers on this trip on different hikes on different days. I love seeing them!

Barefoot-we stayed only the night in BsAs as to be sure we didn't miss our connecting flights. We actually liked it better this time than last but this time we stayed in Recoleta vs Palermo Soho.