I've been searching these forums and find the posters extremely knowledgeable. So, I decided to give a shot to asking for itinerary advice.

We will be completing a river cruise in Lyon on a Saturday morning in April. Our plan is to either stay one night in Lyon (hotel/restaurant suggestions welcome) and head out by rental car on Sunday or just leave Saturday. We need to be in an eastern suburb of Paris Thursday afternoon.

Right now we don't have a clue as to what we want to do, ie. Burgundy / the Loire Chateaus / Geneva / Alsace, so the direction out of the city is up in the air.

We are loosly budgeting $300 - 400/day to cover lodging and dining (if this is too low, let me know). We like the idea of a chateau/castle B&B, but hotels are fine with us. We are foodies, but prefer to eat where the locals eat, so white glove service is not of importance, not to mention the budget.

My inspiration for this request is a post that I just finished reading for a Provence itinerary. The response was unbelievable. I'd be eternally grateful for just a fraction of that one.

Thanks in advance.

Are you an wine enthusiast??? Beaujolais & Burgundy are both on the direct route from Lyon to Paris.

There are many chateaux in this area also - no need to go to the Loire to see them.

Beaune is charming, but there are not as many cute villages in Beaujolais/Burgundy as you will find in Alsace.

Sat to Thurs isn't much time. You may not need to visit any large city like Lyon if you will also be visiting Paris. The countryside in Beaujolais is extremly pretty, and you could take some leisurely drives through the region - stopping at a chateau or two along the way.

I'm not a big fan of the Bresse region - to the east of Beaujolais. Perouges is quite nice, but that's about the only thing I found intresting in that region.

We just returned from 4 weeks in Beaujolais & Burgundy. We've also spend about 2 weeks in Alsace, & 2-3 weeks in the Loire.

Dijon is perhaps my favorite city in France, after Paris. Tours is one of my least favorite.

Tours (Loire) and Dijon (Burgundy) offer excellent train connectiolns to both paris and the CDG airport.

I would choose either Alsace, or Beaujolais/Burgundy as an area to visit. Of the two - I'm not sure I prefer one over the other. Both have vineyards, & excellent food. Alsace has much cuter villages, but there are more chateaux you can visit in Beaujolais/Burgundy. Colmar (Alsace), and Beaqune (Burgundy) are very interestig towns (in my dictonary, there are villages, towns, & cities - going from the smallest to the largest) to visit. I prefer Dijon over Strasbourg. Auxerre is also a very intrguing city to spend a half-day in.

Choose a region, and perhaps I can make some more specific recommendations for scenic drives, chateaux, B&Bs, restaurants, cute villages, etc. Also, specify if you want to spend most of the time in cities & villages like Dijon, Beaune, Colmar, etc. or if you prefer the countryside & small villages.

Stu Dudley

I've TGV'ed from Lyon to Paris, so I'll skip the driving part, except to suggest that it may be less stressful to return your car outside of Paris and take the train in. City driving in Paris can be a bit intense, more so if language is an issue.

If you clikc on my name, you will see a long trip report I posted on Lyon. To your specifics....
My hotel in Lyon was basic. I stayed by the Part Dieu TGV station at a Citadine Hotel (45E an night).
I liked the Bistrot George restaurant (old style large bistro, bit away from downtown), Machonnerie (local specialties, very friendly service, in Old Town) and Paul Bocuse's bistro L'Est (good basic bistro food). Hope this helps.
Mike

Personally I would make the most of your arrival in Lyon and spend a night in the city, which is really worth discovering if you are not familiar with it. Many consider it to be the gastronomic capital of France - so it's a perfect stopover for foodies.

I agree with Stu Dudley that the Beaujolais region is worth visiting, and it's a logical stop off after Lyon. I can recommend a couple of wonderful off-the-beaten path restaurants (with incredible views) in the area if you are interested.

From there you could spend a nice couple of days getting a feel for the Burgundy region, and then perhaps stop off in the medieval city of Troyes before arriving in Paris.
I think that itinerary would enable you to make the most of your time, working a logical path upwards to Paris rather than detouring eastwards to Alsace.

I'll second hanl's recommendation of Troyes. We did an "overnight" there from our base near Beaune. I's a fascinating city with half-timbered buildings everywhere & streets only 4 feet wide in places.

We also found some excellent valued restaurants in Beaujolais. The wines were much better than I expected, and much, much more affordable than the wines in Burgundy.

Stu Dudley

Well, so far a night in Lyon seems like a good start. Any hotel restaurant suggestions?

Troyes also looks like fun. Any suggestions there?

Thanks

In Lyon, I would not stay near the Pert Dieu train station. That’s in the business section of town, and not near the area you probably want to explore. We stayed between the Perrache station & “old” Lyon, at the Des Artistes - [email protected]. We had an excellent meal with great atmosphere at Le Passage – [email protected] There are trains that connect Part Dieu with Perrache – we took the TGV to part Dieu & immediately boarded the train for a 5 min ride to Perrache.

Remember, on Sunday most things will be closed in Lyon.

A good thing to do on Sunday would be to start with a visit to Perouges. This medieval village has been meticulously maintained over the years, and is used as the setting for many movies (Three Musketeers, etc). We first visited Perouges in the 70s, and I was a little concerned that it might have succumbed to “tourist blight” - postcard stands, trinket shops, etc. When we visited in Sept ’06, I was pleased to find out that it had not.

After Perouges, drive through & stay in Beaujolais. Visit some wine villages, admire the picturesque landscape, stop at a few Chateaux, and dine at some of the best-valued restaurants we’ve experienced in France. We stayed 2 weeks in a fabulous Gite (house) on a hilltop near the winegrowing village of Jullie & very close to Julienas. The “complex” may have been a chateau at one time, but the current owners purchased it several years ago, built a home for themselves, developed a winemaking operation, and built a Gite & several B&Bs. All the amenities (except for the building) are modern – the wife is some sort of interior decorator or “collector”. The complex sits on a hilltop surrounded by vineyards & has killer views out over the countryside and nearby villages. The owners speak perfect English. It’s called Domaine de la Chapelle de Vatre. The B&Bs are listed in the Red Michelin Guide – which is a bit unusual since there are very few B&Bs listed in the prestigious Michelin Guide. I think they only started listing B&Bs this year. If you stay there, ask for a tour & a tasting of the various wines produced at the estate. http://www.vatre.com/

A good drive through Beaujolais would be to take the A6 north from Lyon, and get off at exit #30 – Belleville. You will need Michelin Map # 327 to follow this route. Head west on the D37 towards the town of Beaujeu. Take the first “Beaujeau Centre” exit (ignore some ugly commerce). Turn north (right) on the D26 to Col de Truges & Julienas – this area is covered with vineyards. At the Col de Truges, stay on the D26 to Julienas. About 1 K past the Col de Durbize (see the map), take the D32 to Fleurie. This is a very scenic section. Drive into the town of Fleurie (see restaurant rec. below), turn around in the parking lot in front of the Church, & retrace your drive on the D32 back towards the D32/D26 split. On the way, you will be rewarded with a wonderful view of a little chapel on a hilltop to the left of the road. At the D32/D26 intersection, take a sharp right on the D26 to Julienas. On the D26, 2K after the D32/D26 intersection, turn left to Emeringes onto the D68E2 & cross the pretty flower-covered bridge & proceed to Emeringes. When you “dead-end” in Emeringes where there is a phone booth in front of you & an Auberge to the left, curve right & follow the D68E2 towards Jullie. Less than 1K past the cemetery on the left, look to the left for a sign to “Vatre” & turn left. When you hit another road in about 100 meters, turn left again. When you see a somewhat dilapidated old farm with a “a Vendre” sign, look up the road & you will see the Domaine de la Chapelle de Vatre – it’s the building with the huge windows. Proceed towards the building & turn left to access the property. If you look at your 327 map, you will see the “Chlle de Vatres” on the map – this is the little chapel that is on the Domaine de la Chatre’s property. It is lit-up at night. These driving instruction might seem a little complicated – but we found the best way to navigate around Beaujolais is to watch for signs directing you to villages. In this case, the signs would say Beaujeau to Julienas to Fleurie to Julenias to Emeringes to Vatre.

After Vatre, leave the complex and turn left. The road will skirt the north side of Domaine de la Vatre where there is a fabulous view of vineyards, the village of Jullie with its church, and a chateau. This view is visible from the Domaine de la Vatre – we spent many late afternoons admiring this view from the grassy hill next to the Domaine’s “horizon-less” pool – while sipping on a glass of Beaujolais. Continue on this road and you will go through a small forest & emerge with another nice view of Jullie. Shortly, turn right on the D17 towards Jullie but follow the signs to Julienas. At the round-about (marked as La Fife) turn left to Junienas. At the stop sign, make another left & proceed into the village of Julienas – this is easier than it sounds. The road will curve to the right through Julienas & you’ll end up in an open area with two restaurants/hotels on the left. Look for the sign to Macon - the D169. The road number changes to D486T (you are crossing from the Dept of the Rhone to the Cote d’Or dept) – just follow the signs to Macon. Pass through St Amour (see restaurant rec. below) and keep following the signs to Macon, angling left as you leave St Amour. The road will become the D186. At a crossroads, follow the sign to Creches & very soon turn left to La Vernette/Chaintre/Fusse (keep the eyeball pealed – this sign is hard to spot). Follow the signs to Chaintre – the D209. Pass through the very cute village of Chaintre (see restaurant rec. below) and then follow the signs to Fuisse. You will see lots of chateaux along the way (not open for tours). About 1 K later, you will get a fantastic view of Fuisse and the Solutre Rock to the west. In Fuisse, turn right & then a quick left to Chasselas (rue le Pouilly-Fuisse on the right & past a church on the left – this will be the D172). You will go through a small forest then some more wonderful views of vineyards. Turn right on the D31 to Tranayes. Soon you will see Solutre Rock on the right. Turn right on the D54 to Solutre Rock & drive past the rock. Many people park the car & walk up to the plateau – we didn’t. Continue, and in the village of Solutre-Pouilly, turn the car around & retrace your route back past Solutre Rock again – back to the D31/D54 split. At the split, turn right onto the D31 towards Serrieres and then on the D185 to Pierreclos. As you approach Pierreclos, you will see the chateau looming. This chateau is open for a self-guided tour. It is not a “gusseyed-upped” chateau. Once past the chateau and the church, turn right to Macon on the D45 and then the D85 left towards Roche Vineuse & through the pretty village of Bussieres (and more Chateau - not open) towards Berze. Go under the bridge, then turn right on the D17 & then right towards the A6 freeway, going under the freeway to get on the N79 towards Macon, and then the N6 south back towards Junienas (well marked) . Don’t worry if you get lost on any of this route – getting lost is the best part. Directions to towns, villages, and freeways are well-marked.

While you are visiting the chateau at Pierreclos, see of you can get a copy of “le Route des Chateaux en Bourgogne du Sud”. This pamphlet lists all the chateaux that are open in this region. Our favorite was Cormatin – just north of Cluny. Both the Chateau’s interior & gardens are very interesting.

Restaurant recommendations.
My wife & I usually spend 9 weeks in France each year. That’s 35-40 restaurant dinners every year. We are real foodies. I like to find places that serve creative things I can’t or won’t cook at home or find at other restaurants. When we get to an area (we usually spend 2 weeks in the same area), the first thing we do is to dash around & check out the various restaurants listed in the Michelin Red Guide. We eliminate about half of them because the menu is not creative enough. I look for a multi course (5 or more courses) fixed price menu and reasonable cost. In the Beaujolais area, there are many restaurants that feature Bresse chicken and/or Charollais beef. I think our beef in the US is much tastier, and I don’t think Bresse chicken is anything special (I’ve had it several times). We dined at about 9 restaurants in this region, and I found them all to be superb – perhaps some of the best-valued restaurants we’ve dined at, in France. Here are our top three in the Beaujolais region:

Le Cep in Fleurie. This is a Michelin 1 star restaurant. Menus are 45 to 75 E. A couple of days after we dined there, I told the proprietor at our Gite that we liked the place. She said that the chef (an older woman) is quite the “Grand Dame” of Beaujolais cooking, and serves the best frog legs “anywhere”. I had the Ris de Veau, and they were the best I’ve ever tasted. Recently, and article appeared in the NY Times that profiled about 8 restaurants around the world. To our surprise, this restaurant was featured. They said that the place was formerly a Michelin 2 star restaurant, but the chef/owner wanted to simplify things, take the Lobster & Foie Gras off the menu, and make is more accessible for the locals.

Auberge du Paradis in St Amour. Seven course menu plus 2 amuse bouches for 38E. The menu is fixed – no choices. My wife loved the very creative decor in this place. The locals must like it because the restaurant was “complet” the first couple of times we called to reserve. www.aubergeduparadis.fr

La Table de Chaintre in Chaintre. Another seven course menu plus an amuse bouche – for 49 E. There is a choice of 2 main courses, but everything else is “set”. When we returned from this restaurant, we ran into the proprietors of our Gite. They said it was their favorite restaurant in the region.



Troyes
We had an excellent dinner le Valentino. Very reasonable fixed price menu. The restaurant is small and off a courtyard on one of the streets that is only about 4 feet wide. It’s in the “old town”.

If I had to pick one city to stay in between Lyon & Paris, it would be Dijon – not Troyes.

Stu Dudley

Burgundy, certainly. Send me a message at [email protected] and I'll send you my two articles on Burgundy; you could do the itinerary in reverse.

Agree that Part Dieu is not an interesting area to stay. My reason for staying there was convenience to TGV and low cost.

If you can find anything in Old Town or in the Presqu'Ile area, that would be nice.

There are a couple of high end hotels in the Old town area (Cour des Loges Villa Florentine) are two that I have seen and are superbly located. Hotel des Artistes has been discussed on this forum.

Hope this helps,
Mike

These replies are fantastic. Thank you so much.

Stu, I have heard of Le Cep. The Auberge du Paradise looks fantastic, but if I'm reading the website correctly, the restaurant is closed Mon and Tues. That's a shame as those are the days we'd be in the area.

Michel, I'd probably stay in the Old Town. Villa Florentine looks like a winner, but I may opt for a place closer to the Old Town. If we were staying for a few days, then definately VF.

Underhill, I did send out the e-mail. I'd love to read your article.

Hanl, I'm very intrigued by Troyes so that's worth further review.

Thanks again to all.

>>The Auberge du Paradise looks fantastic, but if I'm reading the website correctly, the restaurant is closed Mon and Tues. That's a shame as those are the days we'd be in the area<<

Where had you planned to be on Sunday???? I don't know how much time you spend in France, but Sundays & Mondays are not like they are in the US. Things are "closed" then and you have to be careful as to where you are.

Stu Dudley

Just for info, although much of Lyon is closed on Sundays, things in the old town are mostly open, so that would be a good time to take a stroll around that part of town. There are also lots of great markets in Lyon on Sunday mornings, particularly on the banks of the Saône opposite the old town, around place Carnot (near Perrache station) and (the best one for food) on the Boulevard de la Croix Rousse (up on the Croix Rousse hill).

I agree with Stu that Pérouges is a fascinating place to visit, although I'm not sure it's the most logical direction to take if you then want to go on to the Beaujolais area (Pérouges is east of Lyon, Beaujolais is north-west). On the other hand, the distances aren't so great so it would be doable. If you do go to Pérouges, the Ostellerie du Vieux Pérouges is a good place for lunch (we had an excellent meal there a few years ago - wonderful crayfish and Bresse chicken).

In Beaujolais, I strongly recommend stopping off at the pretty little town of Oingt, a beautifully preserved medieval town built of golden-coloured stone ("pierre dorée&quot. If the weather is fine, I'd recommend having lunch or dinner at the restaurant Le Donjon, which has the most amazing terrace with lovely views over the Beaujolais hills. The food's pretty good too.
My other favourite restaurant in the area is les Platanes de Chénas another restaurant with a view, with tables set out under spreading plane trees overlooking the hills and, again, excellent food.

I must admit I'm not particularly familiar with Troyes, having only ever driven through, but my French friends tell me it's a lovely place and it does seem like a logical choice to stop between Burgundy and Paris.