Hello all.

I've just joined Fodor's after checking out its book about Greece from the library today . The trip will be in May but started planning last Friday so needless to say I wish to finish my itinerary ASAP in order to start booking flights to Greece and accommodations before prices go up.

This is a mother-daughter trip. My DD is in college but after discussing a few times she told me she will be happy with anything I plan .
I will NOT rent a car though I've driven in European countries before with my spouse. I rather skip a rental car than feel anxious driving.

When traveling overseas we both like walking, sightseeing (breathing in culture and history so to speak) and trying different new foods vs. spending lots of time inside museums or art galleries since reading is a big part of being in such buildings. However, we do intend to visit a few major museums in Athens like Archaelogical Museum and another on the Acropolis and educate ourselves beforehand. I was in Greece 30 years ago and it's been my dream to visit it again some day. This is what I have in mind right now and if you could share your thoughts, tips, and advice I would appreciate it.We'll land in FRA at 7am on May 12 and sleep at the airport hotel to shake some of the jetlag. We will have a flight from Athens on May 29 at 3pm. I haven't booked our non-stop ticket to Greece yet but I want to book either to SKG or ATH for May 13 and begin my search for hotels/Airbnb. We will not fly to Crete which is the 3rd non-stop flight option out of FRA. Far-away islands will need to wait for me to arrive some other time .
Note: Arrival into the city/island and departure times from the hotels below are just to give me an idea of how long we can visit the location. FD=Full Day.

Thessaloniki: 13-May @7pm; Departure: 16-May @10am (2FD in the city; 4hrs on 2 buses or 6 hrs on train-bus to reach Kalambata)
Kalambata: 16-May @7pm; Departure: 18-May @8am (1FD; Meteora on 5/17; 5hrs on bus or train-bus to Athens)
Athens: 18-May @4pm; Departure: 21-May @10am (2FD)
Hydra: 21-May @4pm; Departure: 24-May @10am (2.5FD or 3FD if we sleep in Pireaus )
Athens/Pireaus: 24-May @3pm; Departure: 25-May @9am
Nafplio: 25-May @12pm; Departure: 26-May @4pm (1.5FD)
Athens: 26-May @7pm; Departure: 29-May @11am (2FD)

Potential ferry rides from Hydra:
To Spetses 30 min ride (get there at noon and grab the last ferry to get back at 6pm);
To Poros 30 min ride (get there by noon and grab a ferry to get back by 5pm or 8pm).

My own thoughs:
Per my discussion with my spouse (not going to Greece due to other family obligations), in his opinion, it is not bad actually even with the times spent on buses or trains because it's part of traveling to see surroundings and landscapes, but it's a little too busy and perhaps need to sacrifice something. If we remove Nafplio from this plan, we would have less in and out of hotels (or airbnb if I go to them). In this case another day could be added to Thessaloniki or Athens or Hydra (if we choose the latter we have a better chance to hop to another island or two per my comments on the itinerary above).

Should Thessaloniki or Nafplio be sacrificied and why?
I haven't read or looked at Nafplio much, but how much time would be needed to see some history and stroll, maybe visit the fortress but not go to every museum or art gallery.
If Nafplio stays, then we would fly to/out of Athens only and not go Thessaloniki and then add more days to Athens, spend longer on the islands and have more time in Nafplio.
The more I think it seems Thessaloniki can stay and get an extra day, but Nafplio would need to wait for me to come with my spouse when we can both rent a car then??

Welcome to Fodors!

Some thoughts:

Have you explored ways to put all your time in Athens in one block prior to your departure? I don’t mind changing hotels frequently, but I avoid doing so when I can.

I’m not sure I understand your comment about avoiding museums because they involve reading (?). FWIW, I greatly enjoyed the visual experiences of museums in Thessaloniki and Athens. YMMV.

I’m also not sure I understand why you are stopping in France – why not go on to Greece and shake off jet lag there? Look for multi-city flights into Thessaloniki and out of Athens (or vice versa) without specifying where you will stop en route. You can still specify that you want flights with only one stop each way.

IMO, Napflio is easily worth several days. I say that not because of museums (it has one that IMO is well worth seeing, and it can be seen in an hour or two), but because (a) it is charming and (b) it serves as a base for quite a few nearby magnificent ancient sites – sites that can be reached by public transportation.

No time for Delphi?

I can’t help you choose between Thessaloniki and Nafplio – IMO, they are about as different as two places in Greece can be! It really depends on what YOU want to see an experience. If you do go to Thessaloniki, try to make time for Vergina

Maybe my trip report will give you some useful information. I visited all the places you mention except Hydra.
Athens: post # 181+
Meteora: post # 168+
Nafplio: post # 137+
Thessaloniki: post # 174+
With Gratitude for a Glorious Solo Month in Greece

Hope that helps!

I assume you’ve booked your flights to Frankfurt and home from Athens already?

Personally, I avoid going to bed before a reasonably normal bed time on arrival in Europe. I would therefore press on to Thessaloniki the same day. Otherwise you’re just extending your journey to Greece for no great benefit. Just make sure you allow a cushion of time between flights.

There is a multi ticket tourist option in Thessaloniki if you plan to see several places. The bus runs between the airport and the main bus station and is easy but watch your valuables. Or get a taxi if you prefer.

I think the bus from Thessaloniki to Kalambaka would be the better option time wise but check timetables.

I also suggest you travel from Hydra to Nafplio without sleeping in Athens enroute. Yes, it will be a reasonably long journey but better overall. I would also investigate transport options that go via the peninsula at which Nafplio is at the northern end. I believe that services are very infrequent but they may have improved since we were there. Otherwise going via Athens is pretty straightforward.

Bus services to the main archaeological sites near Nafplio are infrequent but there are tours and there’s plenty in town to enjoy if you just want a relaxing time. It’s become a very touristy place but still enjoyable and would provide some mother and daughter shopping time if that appeals. We did a cooking/dinner/bio farm tour from Nafplio that we enjoyed (taxi ride needed).

The only other comment I would make is that your holiday is fairly city centric , which is totally fine if that’s your preference. You’re certainly seeing some of the highlights of Greece.

ps. Another alternative would be to skip Nafplio and spend longer on the Saronic islands, which is what you’re already thinking of. That would probably be more relaxing. Hydra isn’t known for its beaches so time on the other islands might be good. If of interest Pegasus Cruises run cruises from Nafplio.

My daughter and I just got back last evening from a week in Thessaloniki. I would have loved the one stop FRA-STL Lufthansa flight, but it's not offered every day.

​​​​​​Thessaloniki s a vibrant city with excellent restaurants, street life, fine museums. My daughter and I agree that Nafplio beats it out on charm. I have fond memories of sitting at seaside cafes, sipping drinks.

Possibly the chill damp weather we had last week affected my impression of Thessaloniki. It feels Urban. Our daughter was there for a tango marathon, and my husband and I tagged along.

Having spent time in both Thessaloniki and Naphlio- there is no comparison. I wouldn’t waste a minute in Thessaloniki- is really not that interesting.

Thank you for the responses. Sorry, I'll clarify on some stuff I've written by answering your question, kja

No, I actually haven't. It's a good point though, but to be honest I don't know how to make it more organized. Suggestions? However, if I remove Nafplio it would already be better, right? I want a more relaxing pace instead of dashing from one place to another.

Ahh, if it's more visual than reading then yes, it's acceptable to me too. I prefer reading at my pace in the comfort of my home or wherever I'm staying at vs. standing with many people around.

Not France. FRA is the abbreviation of Frankfurt Int'l Airport in Germany. My direct flight from the USA will land there ;-).

I read one of your reports, I think, about Nafplio and Meteora, but I'll read the other two.
A few questions about Meteora. My google search finds people saying that people can hire a taxi or use a local bus to reach one or two monasteries and then just walk down to Kalambaka on foot. Is there a map or some guidance on how to find the way down if I wante to do it? I don't think I want to climb up the hill but I wouldn't mind to go down . I also read that supposedly people can walk from Kalambaka to Kastraki but I imagine that everything is hilly or streets have steep inclines and declines (like in your report about the place you stayed at). I'm trying to decide where to look for a place to stay for 2 nights that is accessible by foot from the bus station in Kalambaka.

Thank you!

Ha, I'm so glad to hear your comments!!
I still plan on reading Kja's report on Thessaloniki, but now you, uppsala30, stokebailey and dreamon, got my attention by comparing Thessaloniki to Nafplio meaning that they are uncomparable.
Could you please expand on your personal impressions? I think that will help me to decide and probably just fly in/out ATH and change my itinerary. After I read your comments, I got a feeling that I will be able to get the same URBAN feeling in Athens which is even larger than Thessaloniki. Uppsala30's comment cracked me up by advising not to bother with that city at all LOL.

@Stokebailey, what did your daughter like more about Nafplio vs. Thessaloniki? What did you do in Nafplio (especially if you went there by bus) beside sitting in cafes? I love sitting too, by the way, but I would like to do some things as well. Visiting the fortress there is one of things. I'll have to google more about this town and what tours are available. How many days/nights would be good to stay there?

@Dreamon, yes, I also try to keep myself awake until evening on the day I land in the EU. We might hop on a local train to visit the old town and cathedral in FRA and of course have some food. If my next leg of travel were to a quiet place I would probably try to push further but this is ATH so I wish to be a little clear headed in case we go into the city on metro after we arrive there. I also don't want to risk miss the next flight because these will be two separate tickets. OTOH, I will think more about your advice and discuss with my daughter because it 's doable: landing at 7:30 am, go through immigration, change terminals and the next flight is sometime after 2pm.
I already tried checking a different route from Hydra to Nafplio (to Port Cheli and Ermionni) but it wouldn't be convenient. Since buses go frequently, going to Nafplio from ferry/Athens could be a good idea.
Could you tell me more about the cooking tour you did and how to got there? Do you remember the name? It sounds interesting. What else did you do in Nafplio?

If I drop Thessaloniki, should we try going to Meteora from Athens by a bus or would you suggest a different day trip by public transportation? I checked day tours to Meteora, but they're awfully long 14-16 hours to my taste. If we went by ourselves it would need to be overnight. Pictures from that area seem gorgeous but tons of tourists in those tiny towns too.

Thessaloniki and Nafplio are so different that it’s hard to compare. Thessaloniki is Greece’s second city and is a proper city.

When we arrived in Thessaloniki (after 2weeks in the mountains) I found it a bit gritty. It didn’t take long for us to really enjoy the place and if you don’t have a car there is a lot more to see and enjoy than Nafplio. Nafplio is much smaller and is relatively prettier and a lot more touristy.

Having been to both (Nafplio more than once) and had to choose I’d return to Thessaloniki.

if you do decide to skip Thessaloniki, you could possibly head to Nafplio on arrival, possibly reducing the number of stays in Athens.

P.S. I posted my below response yesterday and was hoping to read your answer today just to open Fodor's now and find out that my response didn't get posted at all. . Luckily I had a copy of it in my WordDoc. I learned my lesson a few times in the past when I experienced such mishaps on other forums. You write a lengthy reply, hit Submit and see a blank screen and the 'going back' button doesn't help of course.
Lucky or not, I still haven't bought tickets out of ATH yet but I might be playing with fire here as those flight prices can start serious fluctuations very soon.
My original plan was to spend 11 days in Greece but then we increased to 13 days and finally to 15 days (this is the max time we can allocate to Greece), so if I feel that 15 days is too much for us I can still reduce back to 13 or 11 days and spend them in either Vienna or Amsterdam. After reading your comments yesterday I began to reconsider flying to Thessaloniki. So, if you could share more and answer my questions, I think it might crystalize my final thoughts to come to a decision at last. My yesterday's reply is below.

I'm so glad to hear your comments!!
I still plan on reading Kja's report on Thessaloniki, but now you, uppsala30, stokebailey and dreamon, got my attention by comparing Thessaloniki to Nafplio meaning that they are uncomparable.
Could you please expand on your personal impressions? I think that will help me to decide and probably just fly in/out ATH and change my itinerary. After I read your comments, I got a feeling that I will be able to get the same URBAN feeling in Athens which is even larger than Thessaloniki. Uppsala30's comment cracked me up [img]file:///C:\Users\a_bur\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image001.png[/img] by advising not to bother with that city at all LOL.

@Stokebailey, what did your daughter like more about Nafplio vs. Thessaloniki? What did you do in Nafplio (especially if you went there by bus) beside sitting and relaxing? I love sitting too, by the way, but I would like to do and see some things as well . Visiting the fortress there is one of things to do there. I'll have to google more about this town and what tours are available. How many days/nights would be good to stay there?

@Dreamon, yes, I also try to keep myself awake until evening on the day I land in the EU. We might hop on a local train to visit the old town and cathedral in FRA and of course have some food. If my next leg of travel were to a quiet place I would probably try to push further but this is ATH so I wish to be a little clear headed in case we go into the city on metro after we arrive there. I also don't want to risk miss the next flight because these will be two separate tickets. OTOH, I will think more about your advice and discuss with my daughter because it 's doable: landing at 7:30 am, go through immigration, change terminals and the next flight is sometime after 2pm.
I already tried checking a different route from Hydra to Nafplio (to Port Cheli and Ermionni) but it isn't convenient per the current ferry schedules. Since buses go frequently, going to Nafplio from ferry via Athens seems doable if we depart Hydra at 10 am or so.
Could you tell me more about the cooking tour you did and how to get there? Do you remember the name or something that I could read more about it? It sounds interesting. What else did you do in Nafplio?
Your second comment said that you would visit Thessaloniki again if you had to choose between it and Nafplion, but the key words, IMO, are that you have seen "Nafplio more than once". What would you pick if you had never been to Nafplio yet and you're just reading all this stuff online ?

If I drop Thessaloniki, should we try going to Meteora from Athens by a bus or would you suggest doing some other tour instead? Pictures from the area look gorgeous but tons of tourists and tour buses in those tiny towns.
I found a 2-day tour to Meteora that one blogger enjoyed and recommends. I saw 1-day tours too, but they are too crazy for me because they last at least 14 hours. Or we can go by ourselves by bus and spend 1 or 2 nights there.
I also found a tour to Delphi that people recommend on Reddit. It's 11 hours per the description of the tour. I could consider this one.

Sorry, I've posted so many questions.

Well, I clearly don't know how to use Fodor's Forums yet. I didn't see my yesterday's second post when I replied to you all, but when I submitted its slightly revised copy just now and I came back to my thread I found my original posting...Uhh Sorry about this.

You did nothing wrong. Your prior post was caught up in an automated spam filter. When / if you get a message that a post needs to be reviewed it means it will not appear until a moderator gets a chance to release it. When getting that message, just be patient and the post will eventually display. Reposting it can cause confusion and duplicate posts. Unfortunately this filter is an automated function and totally legitimate posts can be intercepted.

Sorry, of course FRA as in Frankfort’s airport. Duh! But still, why are you stopping there? As I already suggested, I would encourage you to plan your flight by specifying endpoints, without designating where your stops will be. And why are you putting your flights on different tickets? It seems that you are making your flights much more complicated than necessary … but perhaps I’m missing some critical bit of information about your reasoning.

Re: Meteora: The main monasteries are arrayed around a single, well-marked road, so you can, indeed, easily walk from one to another – or rather, you walk to their access points. With one exception, you must climb to reach the actual monastery. IME, most decent guidebooks have information about how to visit them. Please invest in one or consult one at your local library – googling really isn’t a good way to plan a trip IMO. You can get an idea about the walks between access points (not from the actual monasteries) by plotting the monasteries on google maps and looking at the elevation information about each walk. You can do the same for the walk from Kalambaka to Kastraki. I do recommend a night in Meteora– much nicer IMO than a very, VERY long day trip.

Although Athens and Thessaloniki are both cities, they would not provide the “same” urban experience. Athens is quintessentially Greek (with a Roman ruin here and there). Thessaloniki bears the marks of its Byzantine, Macedonian, and even Roman history. Athens is much larger, but the core areas around tourist sites can, at times, seem overrun by tourists. Thessaloniki is much smaller and less touristed and its university students contribute to a sense of liveliness.

I agree that Thessaloniki and Nafplio aren’t at all comparable and will let others answer your questions about their differences.

My last post was done before I’d seen some of the previous posts so may not fit the flow of feedback.

Anyway…. The farm was called Nafplio Bio Farm. The cooking was more demonstration than hands on. We also had a brief tour of the farm, then ate what we’d cooked. We needed to take a taxi to and from, which added to the cost. Our hosts were charming and informative.

You may find this website helpful visitnafplio.com. Nafplio is charming but becoming a little self consciously so. We liked it there (our previous visit was more than 30 years ago) and used our time there to do a little hiking, sightseeing and relaxing. Thessaloniki is grittier, more city-like and has a fair amount for visitors to see. We stayed in Ano Poli, which requires some walking up the hill, but there are buses. We had 6 nights in each in 2023, as part of a longer holiday. Nafplio seems Tyne a very popular place to visit and I can see why. Being a two hour bus ride from Athens bus station helps too. If you decide to visit toon arrival in Greece, I believe there is a bus from the airport to the relevant bus station in Athens ( there is more than one).

The same year, we visited Kalambaka, choosing to stay there because it was more convenient as we were using public transport. We had 2 nights enroute west, and used the local bus to visit several monasteries, along with some hiking between monasteries and back to Kalambaka via Kastraki. While Kastraki to Kalambaka and Kalambaka to Agia Triada are fairly easy walks, beyond that the trails required proper shoes and some awareness of where you’re going. We didn’t travel from Athens but if we did, we’d probably take the train and bus (unless the train line has been repaired).

Don’t stress too much about having a perfect itinerary. Whatever you decide will be great. Focus on where you visit, not what you have to leave for another time. It simply isn’t possible to see everything, even if you have years!

LOL, yes, you got me, kja. Some information is indeed omitted. The short version of further reasoning is that the flight options to ATH from my city in the US were with nasty connections in NYC area (transfer from one airport to a different one) or in the UK, nothing via Germany. Since I am a little familiar with FRA airport and the hotel I can walk to, the direct flight to it was a good option to me. Yes, I can buy a ticket for the same day, but I choose not to. YMMV

I'll check Amazon for books about hiking in Meteora.

I've decided to simplify our plan and delete Thessaloniki from it.

FWIW, I didn't think Thessaloniki "gritty" in any sense of that word. When I was there (2017), it was lively, clean, easy to navigate, full of interesting things to see, no rough edges.... I'm not sure what dreamon experienced to describe it so. I'm curious, but I'm not questioning that it was her expeience!

Questions are good! Ask lots.

My husband and I rendezvoused in Thessaloniki with our daughter. Bob had never been to Greece, and had unrealistic expectations. I think he expected to step into something like Santorini, or maybe the Acropolis, instead of a modern city with tall buildings right down to the sea front. Reminiscent of Tel Aviv, if you've ever been there. Grittier, yes.

Hannah and I ended up convincing him to take an 11-hour bus tour, through TripAdvisor, to Meteora. He found it satisfying, came back with some great photos, and it settled him down.

I don't think I heard a British or American accent the whole time we were there. Hannah met one expat at the festival out of the hundreds of mostly Greeks.

Hannah and I spent 4 or so days in Nafplio 8 or 9 years ago, rented a car in Athens and found driving surprisingly easy. Excellent highway, good signage in English and Greek. Parking, a little trickier. We arrived on a Saturday, when the town was busy with Athenian weekenders who cleared out on Sunday. It didn't seem particularly touristy besides that.

There's a path along the sea, besides exploring the town with its combination of Byzantine and Venetian architecture. The museums are nice. I especially liked going early to sit at an outdoor Cafe right by the sea, order coffee, watch the sun rise and the mists clear, Did some sketching and watercolors. Visited the darkly mysterious Orthodox Church.

We drove one day to Epidauras and the beautiful theater there, another day we meant to catch the ferry to Hydra, took a wrong turn through some interesting back country, ended up near the ferry port deciding just to pretend we were in Hydra. I don't think you would hate driving day trips around Nafplio if you had a car for just a couple of days.

For Meteora: Four monasteries are grouped fairly close to one another (think a 20 minute walk between each). The other two are on the same road, but at a much longer distance. I did not see anyone walking that part of the road.

It is highly unlikely you can do all six in one day, unless you are competing in some kind of reality tv show.

The problem with the bus is that there is only a single bus, and it leaves the city at 9am, approximately the time you should already be at your first monastery. So I think it is initially best to take a taxi.

The group of four from highest elevation to lowest is:

Great Meteoran (extensive) Unfortunately, it opens 30 minutes later than the others in this group.
Varlaam (if you only see one, this is the one you need to see)
Roussanou (very small and pretty, the walk up is fairly easy)
St Nicolas (the very steep walk up and the gorgeous view is the only reason to go.) The monastery itself does not register; it is tiny and there's almost nothing to see..

The other two, starting with highest elevation:
Holy Trinity. The James Bond monastery. The most difficult climb, but rewarding to experience. Spectacular views on top, but not as much to see as Varlaam or Great Meteoran.
St Stephen. No climb involved, therefore always crowded. The best museum.

For me the action and experience of the climb up is a great deal of the reward itself. But if you look at it like a chore to receive a treat at the end, then maybe you should limit yourself to the first two.

Realistically, I could see someone doing two before lunch, take a lunch break in town, and then do two others.

I saw 5 of the 6 -- all but Holy Trinity -- in one day. I did not rush. I had a car and did not eat lunch.

Hi I just noticed your follow up question. I’ve been to Greece multiple times, my daughter is a Greek and Roman archeologist. Most recent trip was in 2023, we stayed in Thessloniki for 3 weeks, then I met up w my husband in Athens and went to Santorini and Milos. Thessaloniki is gritty, graffiti everywhere, even on the churches, I believe I posted a trip report - try searching for that using my username. My opinion is that Thessloniki isn’t the most interesting part of Greece. It is a big city, second largest in Greece. Sits on a working port so there aren’t any nice beaches nearby. Most of the interesting sights we went to were out of town, so you would have to drive.
Meterora can be done with a bus trip from Athens. It is stunning. I went on a three day bus tour, by myself one year, out of Athens that was recommended by the professors at the American school of Athens. Sorry can’t remember the name of the tour company
On the other hand Naphlio is stunning, situated on a beautiful bay, with beaches nearby. And you are on the Peloponnese peninsula. So many wonderful ancient sites to visit there. My daughter worked at both ancient Nemea( several summers) , and Mycenea. We went on to Kalamata for 1 night. I drove the whole trip because we had a stick shift car.

Downtown area

Big city apartments everywhere

The bay from our apartment


Arch of Galerius

Graffiti everywhere

Very thankful for all your posts. It helped me to put a few things in perspective how it is on the ground there vs. searching on the internet and reading travel books.

The revised itinerary will be: Athens-Hydra-Nafplio-Athens. I just need to nail how many nights/days to stay on Hydra and Nafplio. If I manage to squeeze Meteora in, we’ll be lucky. I might consider a tour to Delphi instead. I already dream about going back to Greece again when my husband can join me.

If I wanted a relaxing touristy experience in Nafplio (without a car), how many days would be good? 3 or 4 full days? This includes visiting points of interest without crazy rushing, enjoying a walk in the Old Town with stops in a few shops, maybe a hike nearby and/or going to the beach (rent a bike to get there or take a taxi and walk back), and of course to sit in a café/restaurant for a drink, desert, and meals for lunch and dinner and just appreciate the moment and luck of being in Greece. Oh, and also a cooking tour if possible.

@Dreamon, Thank you for providing more information. I have decided to delete Thessaloniki from our plan and hence fly in/out ATH and spend more time in Athens, Nafplio and islands. I'll see how Meteora fits in the new plan because I like the tour to Delphi too. But this is for later after all accommodations are reserved/booked. If you liked the place you stayed at in Nafplio and breakfast is included too, maybe you can tell its name so I'll check it out.

Did you arrange a private or join a group cooking tour at NafplioBioFarms? I see cooking tours offered on viator.com, but I didn't find NBF there. I found their website and it looks like that I have to text or email them personally to find out their availability, pricing and details how to reach them if all works out. I liked all the positive reviews about this farm on TripAdvisor though other cooking tours/demos all have high ratings as well. Since we like homemade food, this could be a nice activity to do in Nafplio. Do you remember how much time you spent at the farm+commute?

@Stokebailey, I loved your post! It cracked me up especially the part about Bob expecting to step into history, but was shocked to see a modern city! It’s so funny, but you’re making a great point too. We sometimes/often romanticize about places we are going to see, but the reality is those places are not static and fixed in certain era. This is was a good reminder even to me. I’ve got another request for you. Could you please describe your impressions of your 11-hour tour to Meteora? I’m asking because a tour from Athens to Delphi is also 11 hours, but this would be my first time going on a long tour and sitting on the bus that long. How did you all enjoy Meteora?