Lenin's Tomb
Nov 28th, 2017, 05:59 PM
#2
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It is more than a little macabre. . And the opening times are unpredictable at best. The guards seem to take a perverse pleasure in announcing that "The line is closed for some reasons"
If you can Hit it just right and get in without waiting half a day, probably worth seeing once. Listen to the warnings about being quite and respectful. They will physically remove anyone who does not!
If you can Hit it just right and get in without waiting half a day, probably worth seeing once. Listen to the warnings about being quite and respectful. They will physically remove anyone who does not!
Nov 28th, 2017, 06:33 PM
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Try to get in. We got drunk on Cuba Libres across the square and missed getting in. Really regret those drinks !! Read somewhere that if you pay a guide, you'll get to the head of the line. Worth trying, I think.
Nov 28th, 2017, 06:43 PM
#4
I thought it was creepy. His body looks like a very bad Madame Tussauds sculpture. I was part of a tour (a requirement when I visited in 1968), and our group skipped the line, definitely not with the approval of line-waiting Soviets.
The tomb's architecture is classic and impressive. There has been talk (almost from the beginning) that Lenin should be buried, but no one so far has been brave enough to make that happen. But you never know...
http://www.newsweek.com/why-putin-ke...kremlin-652292
If you're interested in historical fiction, I highly recommend "A Gentleman in Moscow" (Amor Towles). It's not about Lenin but takes place in a hotel near the Kremlin over several tumultuous decades starting in the early 1920s. The hotel is still there and has an interesting history of its own. I had lunch in the hotel in 1968 and remember thinking it was the only decent meal I had the entire time I was in the Soviet Union.
http://www.amortowles.com/gentleman-...ol-references/
The tomb's architecture is classic and impressive. There has been talk (almost from the beginning) that Lenin should be buried, but no one so far has been brave enough to make that happen. But you never know...
http://www.newsweek.com/why-putin-ke...kremlin-652292
If you're interested in historical fiction, I highly recommend "A Gentleman in Moscow" (Amor Towles). It's not about Lenin but takes place in a hotel near the Kremlin over several tumultuous decades starting in the early 1920s. The hotel is still there and has an interesting history of its own. I had lunch in the hotel in 1968 and remember thinking it was the only decent meal I had the entire time I was in the Soviet Union.
http://www.amortowles.com/gentleman-...ol-references/
Nov 29th, 2017, 02:01 AM
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Another wonderful book about the Soviet era is Mastering the Art of Soviet Cooking: A Memoir of Food and Longing
by Anya Von Bremzen.
Her father was one of the scientists who developed the method of preserving Lenin, and knowing some of the details added greatly to the... unusualness of visiting the tomb.
by Anya Von Bremzen.
Her father was one of the scientists who developed the method of preserving Lenin, and knowing some of the details added greatly to the... unusualness of visiting the tomb.
Nov 29th, 2017, 07:20 AM
#6
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So here's a question?
Why?
For the architecture? For the creep factor? For the same reason people rubberneck at traffic accidents?
Usually visiting a tomb (or other resting place of the deceased) is connected with paying respects to the dead. If you're going with any bit of that purpose, that's disturbing considering Lenin is responsible for the creation and distribution of the deadliest and most destructive ideology of the 20th century.
Why?
For the architecture? For the creep factor? For the same reason people rubberneck at traffic accidents?
Usually visiting a tomb (or other resting place of the deceased) is connected with paying respects to the dead. If you're going with any bit of that purpose, that's disturbing considering Lenin is responsible for the creation and distribution of the deadliest and most destructive ideology of the 20th century.
Nov 29th, 2017, 09:56 AM
#7
Like Jean, we went on a tour to Moscow, ours in the early 70's and the tomb was one of the places we were taken to. The guards were very strict about keeping quiet, moving slowly and no photographs. I had my gloves in my pocket (February visit) and I had to show that they were not a camera.
The German guy in the line in front of us - tourist line bypassing the Russians - was not so lucky as he did have a camera in his pocket. He was hauled off by the guards.
He did look like a waxwork, one hell of an embalming job, but we went because we were taken. Ghoulish? Maybe a little but this was their way of paying respect to him and there was no feeling of rubbernecking in those days, nor criticism of Lenin for what he did. Communism was still in full swing and we had other experiences confirming that.
The German guy in the line in front of us - tourist line bypassing the Russians - was not so lucky as he did have a camera in his pocket. He was hauled off by the guards.
He did look like a waxwork, one hell of an embalming job, but we went because we were taken. Ghoulish? Maybe a little but this was their way of paying respect to him and there was no feeling of rubbernecking in those days, nor criticism of Lenin for what he did. Communism was still in full swing and we had other experiences confirming that.
Nov 29th, 2017, 10:21 AM
#8
"... we went because we were taken." Yes, that was the only reason for me also. And, yes, Lenin was still very much respected in those days. But, interestingly, while communism was in full swing, as Rubicund points out, everyday people that we were able to meet (especially young people) weren't universally gung-ho about everything. There were very guarded criticisms of the difficulties of daily life and questions to us about lifestyle, freedom to travel, rock and folk music, etc. It wasn't that impossible to believe this model couldn't be sustained forever, especially as more Russians learned the "pravda" about how the western world lived.
Nov 29th, 2017, 01:09 PM
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Usually visiting a tomb (or other resting place of the deceased) is connected with paying respects to the dead. If you're going with any bit of that purpose, that's disturbing considering Lenin is responsible for the creation and distribution of the deadliest and most destructive ideology of the 20th century.<
If Putin had his way Stalin would still be buried with Lenin in the Dead Red Mausoleum as there is a major rehab going on now in Russia about making Stalin a hero again - his grave I believe is by Kremlin Walls - after he was kicked out of Dead Red Mausoleum after fall of Soviet Union.
I saw Lenin and Stalin's tombs long long ago - why? Why not -n macabre probably more than anything.
If Putin had his way Stalin would still be buried with Lenin in the Dead Red Mausoleum as there is a major rehab going on now in Russia about making Stalin a hero again - his grave I believe is by Kremlin Walls - after he was kicked out of Dead Red Mausoleum after fall of Soviet Union.
I saw Lenin and Stalin's tombs long long ago - why? Why not -n macabre probably more than anything.
Nov 30th, 2017, 11:08 AM
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Why not doesn't cut it.
And comparing the resting place of a mass murderer who paved the way for hundreds of millions of deaths in addition to the millions on his own hands from Kulak purges and the Russian Revolution and the basic enslavement of billions under his daft ideology to Pere Lachaise (how do Jim Morrison, Oscar Wilde, Maria Callas [or her urn], Camille Pissaro and Georges Seurat belong in the same thought process?) is just morally obtuse.
And comparing the resting place of a mass murderer who paved the way for hundreds of millions of deaths in addition to the millions on his own hands from Kulak purges and the Russian Revolution and the basic enslavement of billions under his daft ideology to Pere Lachaise (how do Jim Morrison, Oscar Wilde, Maria Callas [or her urn], Camille Pissaro and Georges Seurat belong in the same thought process?) is just morally obtuse.
Nov 30th, 2017, 02:02 PM
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You don't have to honor Lenin by seeing that macabre bizarre site. Plenty of statues of say kings of England who have bloody histories too in places like Westminster Abbey and folks like Henry
VII at Windsor and Hampton Court- or zillions of Roman emperoros -
contrary when I saw Lenin I viewed him as a total tyrant - the idea you are paying homage to Lenin by wanting to see such a famous and creepy sight is to me rather idiotic.
President Trump held a ceremonty for Native Americans recently in White House under picture of Andrew Jackson who was responsible for zillions of 'savage Indian' deaths and tortures yet we have him also on our $20 bill - do you accept $20 bills - guess not if consistent with your views.
VII at Windsor and Hampton Court- or zillions of Roman emperoros -
contrary when I saw Lenin I viewed him as a total tyrant - the idea you are paying homage to Lenin by wanting to see such a famous and creepy sight is to me rather idiotic.
President Trump held a ceremonty for Native Americans recently in White House under picture of Andrew Jackson who was responsible for zillions of 'savage Indian' deaths and tortures yet we have him also on our $20 bill - do you accept $20 bills - guess not if consistent with your views.
Nov 30th, 2017, 05:38 PM
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Good luck getting in! We tried to get in and waited patiently in line. We were literally the next in line, but for some unexplained reason, the guard cupped my elbow in his hand and said 'nyt' while twirling me around. Of the two or three words in Russian I know, this is one of them! Maybe the quota for Americans to enter Lenin's tomb had already been reached for the day!
Dec 1st, 2017, 03:25 PM
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Debs . . it could have been anything from not liking the way you were dressed, to you reminding him of someone he did not like.
They have great latitude in who they refuse!
Rubicund . . Every 8 - 10 years they take him out for a "wash and grease". They fluff him up and refresh the embalming.
The family has wanted to bury him or years. It almost happened when I lived there in the 90's, but at the last minute, Yeltsin decided not to make the change.
They have great latitude in who they refuse!
Rubicund . . Every 8 - 10 years they take him out for a "wash and grease". They fluff him up and refresh the embalming.
The family has wanted to bury him or years. It almost happened when I lived there in the 90's, but at the last minute, Yeltsin decided not to make the change.
Dec 2nd, 2017, 03:57 AM
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A very large number of important history sites in the world honor mass murderers or have been the homes of mass murderers, rapists, slave holders, torturers. Many of these monuments have played an influential role in shaping public opinion globally for better and for worse.
Thinking people aren't afraid of ghosts or to go anywhere to see for themselves what is the meaning of these monuments.
have no idea why Fodor's attracts so many hysterics who want to impose their anxieites on other travelers. Every adult I know could go to Lenin's Tomb and be just fine afterward, uncorrupted and having learned something important. But hide under the bed and cry if you must. Just don't mistake it for travel advice.
Thinking people aren't afraid of ghosts or to go anywhere to see for themselves what is the meaning of these monuments.
have no idea why Fodor's attracts so many hysterics who want to impose their anxieites on other travelers. Every adult I know could go to Lenin's Tomb and be just fine afterward, uncorrupted and having learned something important. But hide under the bed and cry if you must. Just don't mistake it for travel advice.
Dec 3rd, 2017, 03:43 PM
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"Usually visiting a tomb (or other resting place of the deceased) is connected with paying respects to the dead. If you're going with any bit of that purpose, that's disturbing considering Lenin is responsible for the creation and distribution of the deadliest and most destructive ideology of the 20th century."
You might say the same about Napoleon and the 19th, but I'll bet you saw it.
I won't go because I don't want to fund any of Vlad's miscreant behavior, but , when I do go, I will have no problem gawking at Lenin. Respect him, no?
You might say the same about Napoleon and the 19th, but I'll bet you saw it.
I won't go because I don't want to fund any of Vlad's miscreant behavior, but , when I do go, I will have no problem gawking at Lenin. Respect him, no?
Dec 4th, 2017, 02:50 AM
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Can't wait for Americans to quit going to the Vatican and 90 percent of the rest of Italian, French, British and Spanish churches and museums out of their moral sensibilities about famous figures involved in sexual abuse (assuming they further avoid looking at the Jefferson Memorial and Mt Rushmore as well).
Onward with ignorance shrilly shouted as superior values. The less you look at history and its artifacts, the less you know, and the more secure you can be in the totality of your knowledge and the virtue of your own beliefs.
Onward with ignorance shrilly shouted as superior values. The less you look at history and its artifacts, the less you know, and the more secure you can be in the totality of your knowledge and the virtue of your own beliefs.
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