wanderingcanadian

I need itinerary advice for this trip; we fly into Denver from Canada. Timing is October, 8-25 for sightseeing (we like history, geology, hiking, nature, scenery, we don’t shop as entertainment) and then 26-29 in Phoenix for a conference, fly home from Phoenix.
I am having problems deciding how much time to spend in each area and whether I am over planning. Is my plan doable? And in the right order? On other long road trips we have planned day long drives to include time to sight see along the way. Also I would appreciate advice on accommodation, we’re not picky, clean and confortable is just fine, its where to stay as in what towns I’m not sure of. The only nights booked are at GCNP. Should I be pre-booking all accommodation?
So far the plan is.
Day 1: Oct 8, arrive Denver, 2pm, get rental car, start drive to Mesa Verde NP, stay where overnight?
Day 2: Oct 9, arrive Mesa Verde, stay overnight in park (not booked yet)
Day 3: Oct 10, Mesa Verde, stay overnight in park (not booked yet)
Day 4: Oct 11, Monument Valley? Drive to Arches NP,
Day 5: Oct 12, Arches
Day 6: Oct 13, drive to Bryce NP on Hwy 12
Day 7: Oct 14, Bryce
Day 8: Oct 15, to Zion
Day 9: Oct 16, Zion
Day 10: Oct 17, drive to GCNP, overnight at Bright Angel lodge (booked)
Day 11: Oct 18, GCNP, overnight at Best Western, Grand Canyon (booked)
Day 12: Oct 19, drive to Flagstaff, see Walnut Canyon, Sunset Crater Volcano, and Wupatki, not all?
Day 13: Oct 20, Sedona, Oak Creek Canyon and ???
Day 14: Oct 21, drive to Tucson
This is where I am getting confused, in the Tucson area Kartchner Cavern SP is a must, also we want to see Saguaro NP, Biosphere 2, Sabino Canyon, Mission san Xavier del bac, Maybe Agua Caliente Park, Tucson,
Day 15: Oct 22,
Day 16: Oct 23,
Day 17: Oct 24,
Day 18: Oct 25, end the day in Phoenix
Day 19, 20, 21: Phoenix, what to do by myself?

I wanted to include Monument Valley but when? I know there are other national monuments and ruins in the Tucson area, but thought more might be too much even for history nuts.
Comments and suggestions are appreciated, thanks.

DebitNM

The weekend you have for Mesa Verde is a 3 day weekend here, Columbus Day and the Far View Lodge could be booked already or will be soon. Book sooner rather than later.

bigtyke

from tucson, consider visiting Chiricahua National Monument, also Bisbee (take Copper Queen Mine tour) and Tombstone (on way between Bisbee and Tucson)

DebitNM

Also, for your arrival day - it will be at least 3 pm before you are on the road. Are you gaining 2 hours with time change from Eastern Canada?

Driving to Mesa Verde from Denver will be 8 hours or so. Way too far I think so an overnight is a good idea. Depending on how far you did want to drive that first day - stay overnight in Salida [about 3 hour drive] but that leaves 5 hours next day and a chunk of time out of Mesa Verde [a mistake in my opinion.]

Second option would be to drive to Pagosa Springs which is 5.5 hours and would leave about 2.5 hours the next morning.

A happy medium would be to stay somewhere in Del Norte area, don't know much about it but this might help:

http://www.upperriograndeguide.com/Lodging.htm#DelNorte

emalloy

If you don't already have your flights planned yet, consider flying into Vegas, then going to Zion, Bryce, Arches, Mesa Verde, Monument Valley, Grand Canyon, Wupatki, Sunset Crater, Walnut Canyon, Oak Creek Canyon, Sedona, then down to Tucson etc. I think this will be better in terms of time in the car and also in terms of costs as Denver is one of the most expensive places I've rented a car from and you can be at Zion in 3 hours from Vegas.

As to booking accommodations ahead. I've done it both ways. If I know where I'll be on a specific day, I may book in NP's. I've never had all places booked far ahead, but have called a day or two when we know where we'll go next. The NP's get late cancellations all the time and you can call and keep calling to find them as they seldom show up on the web page. As long as you are near a medium sized town or a high way you will find lots of chain type motel/hotels last minute.

I would want to spend more time in the Arches/Canyonlands area even if it meant cutting something else down.

Sounds like a great trip.

tomfuller

If you stick with Denver, you should be able to make it to Gunnison in 4 hours. Gunnison to Mesa Verde is 5 hours.
Day 4 leave Mesa Verde early and head for Kayenta Arizona.
Don't bother stopping to see the 4 corners monument. It seems to be a tourist trap. From Kayenta through Monument Valley to Moab Utah is 3 hours driving time plus whatever time you stop to see Monument Valley.
On one of your days in Phoenix, head down through Tucson and head up to the top of Mt. Lemon. The top of the mountain will be at least 30 degrees cooler than the valley floor.
Are you paying a drop off fee for picking up a rental car in Denver and leaving it in Phoenix?

wanderingcanadian

Thanks that is Thanksgiving weekend here, didn't realise it was also a long weekend in the US.
Yes we are gaining time, two hours I think.
Where/what is the million or billion dollar highway, it was a suggested route to MVNP? We were also warned about snow? Something we are very used to!
We do have our flights booked, there are no direct flights from Toronto, except to Denver or Vegas.
How long from MVNP to Kayenta, that seems to make sense for adding Monument valley.
The car isn't booked yet, I have looked at costs but it doesn't show a breakdown so I assume we are paying a drop off fee, but I'm not sure, it's a similar cost to renting a car for the same amount of time in the UK.

DebitNM

Million Dollar Highway is a loop that goes from Durango to Mesa Verde to Cortez [via CO SR 160] then north through Dolores, Stoner, Rico on up to Telluride [via CO SR 145] then over to Montrose, Ridgeway and then down to Ouray, Silverton and back to Durango [via CO SR 550.]

http://www.roadtripamerica.com/places/million.htm

http://www.theculturedtraveler.com/A...on_Highway.htm

We just did the route a few weeks ago, a nice day.

Some more info on this old thread:
http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...suggestion.cfm

lennyba

<This is where I am getting confused, in the Tucson area Kartchner Cavern SP is a must, also we want to see Saguaro NP, Biosphere 2, Sabino Canyon, Mission san Xavier del bac, Maybe Agua Caliente Park, Tucson, >

Looks like you have four full days in Tucson? That's time for all of that, although these are all in different directions. Kartchner is a good share of a day by itself. Assuming you're hikers with this itinerary, I'd combine the Mission with a trip to Madera Canyon. Saguaro NP is on both the east and west sides of Tucson. Perhaps do SNP east on the same day as Agua Caliente park (which is not very large but a nice change from the usual Tucson desert-y stuff). Sabino Canyon is to the east of the city as well.
Or you could do SNP west and visit the Desert Museum. Biosphere 2 is about 20 miles straight north up Oracle Road. We went over Memorial Day and spent about an hour and a half on the tour.

WhereAreWe

I'm not sure why you are devoting 4 days to Tucson and just 2.5 days in Colorado (most of that at Mesa Verde). That time of year may be past peak aspen color but there will still be some good pockets of color, the elk will be in rut and yet you're basically skipping all of that. I don't understand unless you truly aren't interested in the mountains at all.

I would definitely add some time in the mountains of Colorado and cut back at least a day or two elsewhere (Tucson and Mesa Verde most likely). Your trip is heavy on the red rocks and desert and it might all blend together after awhile. Perhaps also take a drive up into the mountains outside Flagstaff - very near to Wupatki and Sunset Crater.

Phoenix- visit Casa Grande NM about an hour away, take the scenic drive past Lost Dutchman State Park out to Tonto National Monument and stop in at Boyce Thompson Arboretum on your way back into town, visit the Heard Museum, go to South Mountain Park, etc.

wanderingcanadian

Hi there Where are We, why you are devoting 4 days to Tucson etc
The answer is previous trips, a month in the Canadian Rockies and Coastal Mountains, 5 days in Denver and Manitou Springs, Pikes Peak, the front range and a week in Yellowstone, plus Grand Teton and more.
I agree the trip has lots of red rocks, definitely some thing we don't have at home which is why the emphasis.I wanted to find some activities in the Tucson area that are not quite so desert/red rock stuff.
Also we were warned about the potential for snow in the mountains in Colorado, I drive in snow for 6 months of the year at home! And that's enough.
The Boyce Thompson arboretum is on a maybe list,depending on time, I am in the garden business so anything related to plants/horticulure is always good.

emalloy

Not far from Tucson is Kitt Peak Observatory. We toured it several years ago and found it very interesting.

WhereAreWe

Ok, that makes sense to skip through Colorado rather quickly then.

Tomfuller mentioned Gunnison as an overnight stop on the way to Mesa Verde. I would highly recommend a visit to Black Canyon of the Gunnison if you decide to go that route.

If you follow bigtyke's advice and go to Chiricahua National Monument, I would also highly recommend a side trip to Fort Bowie National Historical Site (if you are familiar with the history of that area, otherwise it may not interest you).

I'll try to think of more when I have some time.

travlsolo2

Just a little to add -- between Arches and Bryce, the Capitol Reef NP area is sometimes overlooked....more red rocks, but we love it!
If you're not staying in the lodge at Zion, a really nice place to stay in Springdale (right outside Zion) is the Desert Pearl Inn. Numerous good places to eat in Springdale, too.
Have a great trip!

spirobulldog

You might consider riding the train in Durango. You can ride the train one way and then take a bus back on the Million Dollar HWY. Better yet do the train/zipline-very expensive though.

I wouldn't miss Goblin Valley in Utah- its not far from Arches.

Monument Valley is one of my least favorites in the area. It is nice, but if you have to eliminate something you should consider it.

Rental cars are more expensive in Denver than most places, btw.
You might consider flying into Cortez, Durango, Gunnison, or some small airport nearby. This would save you some time and gas.

Get a National Park Pass at your first park. $80 will get you into all of them. Not sure if that works for non-residents or not?? The pass will not get you into Monument Valley. It's on Indian Reservation and they collect their own money there.

Capitol Reef will have good fall foliage at that time. Don't miss having a piece of pie in The Gifford House. Eat the pie just a few steps away in the picnic area. The picnic area is in the orchard and usually has lots of deer. You might also be able to pick apples in the orchard at that time. Zion/Bryce will have good color at that time as well.

I just posted some photos today of a recent trip and if you search on my name there are photos/trip reports on every place you mention except Tucson.

DebitNM

Do not fly into Cortez; you have to go through Denver anyways, and rental cars are limited to ones from a dealer - $$$$$$

Durango also requires flying through Denver and is also $$$$

bigtyke

If you take the back route from Tucson to Phoenix (rte 77) then the Boyce Thompson Arboretum would be easy to visit and this route is more scenic than the freeway. Boyce is an interesting place although they could benefit from more selectivity in how the trees are displayed (my brother volunteers there and always presses them to have 1 or two superior specimens rather than a half dozen average ones). Good bird watching there also.

spirobulldog

You will need to check car rental rates. Personally, I find that the Denver airport is one of the highest places in the country to rent a car.

Prices on expedia for oct 8 thru 25 were above $918 for a economy car and $1001 for full size in Denver.

Prices on expedia for oct 8 thru 25 were $601 for economy and $670 for a full size in Cortez.

Durango-- economy $490 Full Size $621

American Airlines does not connect in Denver to fly to Durango
several other carriers do.

There were rental cars at the airport in Cortez and Durango when we were there. Plus there is zero hassle checking into those places. Cortez only has a handful of flights per day, so at the most just a few people in line at the airport.

spirobulldog

I did not factor in Dropoff fees to Phoenix, don't know what that would be. Just making my point to check rates and it is far less expensive to rent anywhere but Denver.

spirobulldog

It's 402 miles and a 7 hour drive from DEN to Cortez, btw.