The REAL Buenos Aires
Feb 7th, 2008 | 01:34 PM
#221
Original Poster
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,245
Likes: 0
I'm not much of a peacemaker, in fact I relish controversy, but I'll do my best.
Ladies first, OF COURSE:
RAQUEL, thank you very much for helping me with this thread.
PLEASE, please do NOT "fade into the sunset" or anywhere else.
Just go on doing the great job you do here and in other forums.
However, don't you agree you just MAY have been a little harsh with our new friend wesmma11?
Could it be the heady influence of the title of TA Local Expert for Costa Rica recently and most deservedly bestowed upon you? LOL!!!
Gentlemen next:
wesmma11: you said you wanted "more info on this" and that you have "read the entire thread". I confirm receiving your e-mail.
Whatever info you can possibly want about my tour is in the above posts.
Unfortunately, I don't expect my knee to be up to doing my tour in less than two weeks' time. Perhaps some other time?
Please try to post a trip report. Have a great time in our country.
Ladies first, OF COURSE:
RAQUEL, thank you very much for helping me with this thread.
PLEASE, please do NOT "fade into the sunset" or anywhere else.
Just go on doing the great job you do here and in other forums.
However, don't you agree you just MAY have been a little harsh with our new friend wesmma11?
Could it be the heady influence of the title of TA Local Expert for Costa Rica recently and most deservedly bestowed upon you? LOL!!!
Gentlemen next:
wesmma11: you said you wanted "more info on this" and that you have "read the entire thread". I confirm receiving your e-mail.
Whatever info you can possibly want about my tour is in the above posts.
Unfortunately, I don't expect my knee to be up to doing my tour in less than two weeks' time. Perhaps some other time?
Please try to post a trip report. Have a great time in our country.
Feb 8th, 2008 | 06:36 AM
#222
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
AV,
I thank you for your response, and look forward to meeting with you another time. My apology to Raquel. I'm sure all this was in good fun, and I do respect her opinions. Although she's still having a little trouble with my name. Ha Ha
Wes
I thank you for your response, and look forward to meeting with you another time. My apology to Raquel. I'm sure all this was in good fun, and I do respect her opinions. Although she's still having a little trouble with my name. Ha Ha
Wes
Feb 8th, 2008 | 10:25 AM
#225
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Raquel,
Me too!!! I guess we're all getting older. LOL I do want to thank you and all on this forum (and others) for all the great advice thru the years. I have been very fortunate to have traveled quite a few places and used alot of the advice I received. It seems now on this, my first BA trip, my buddy of many years (and trips) will not be making the journey with me. He had a stroke 3 weeks ago and although he is doing fine, can not travel that far away, this early. My wife, also a veteran partner in my travels, can not go either due to prior commitments. So, at this late date, it looks like I may be going solo. Something I haven't done much of since my younger years. I needed to get some added local knowledge. AV's real BA tour looked like it was just what I needed. Maybe next time.
Thanks again to all
Wes
Me too!!! I guess we're all getting older. LOL I do want to thank you and all on this forum (and others) for all the great advice thru the years. I have been very fortunate to have traveled quite a few places and used alot of the advice I received. It seems now on this, my first BA trip, my buddy of many years (and trips) will not be making the journey with me. He had a stroke 3 weeks ago and although he is doing fine, can not travel that far away, this early. My wife, also a veteran partner in my travels, can not go either due to prior commitments. So, at this late date, it looks like I may be going solo. Something I haven't done much of since my younger years. I needed to get some added local knowledge. AV's real BA tour looked like it was just what I needed. Maybe next time.
Thanks again to all
Wes
Feb 27th, 2008 | 11:36 AM
#227
Original Poster
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,245
Likes: 0
As I have mentioned somewhere above, my tour, which included watching the "cartonero train" pass and explaining the circumstances that led to its existence, does not exist any more, at least in that format, because the "cartonero train" was discontinued late last year.
However, the "cartoneros" are fighting to get it back, as reported today in our leading newspaper:
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/990818
However, the "cartoneros" are fighting to get it back, as reported today in our leading newspaper:
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/990818
Mar 7th, 2008 | 02:44 AM
#228
Original Poster
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,245
Likes: 0
A good friend told me that my tour was being discussed in another forum. http://tinyurl.com/2s4mm9
A self-proclaimed expert on this town referred to it as "people on other forums offering a tour to the cartoneros train, as if they were a tourist attraction."
Another friend, who has taken my tour twice, replied:
"I think you are talking about the "Real Buenos Aires Tour", which I have taken twice and some of the well known members of this forum too. Feel free to speak up if you went on the tour.
It was the few times in Buenos Aires; I put away the camera, watched and learned something. You can learn something about yourself, or others, the people you happen to be on tour with and maybe you are lucky enough to have all three happen.
But I agree it not for the tourists. It is for those who want to expand their knowledge of the world.
Maybe this is not good for tourism in Buenos Aires or the image of Buenos Aires but it is a true picture."
Thank you, Bill.
Another poster replied:
"The "The Other Argentina" tour that AVRooster so generously offers (I say generously because he doesn't make any money off of it) gives those tourists an opportunity to see the other side of life in Argentina."
Thank you, Roberto
I could ask many other friends who have taken my tour and know what they are talking about (as opposed to the self-proclaimed expert I mentioned above) to reply to that comment, but I feel it's just not worth it.
A self-proclaimed expert on this town referred to it as "people on other forums offering a tour to the cartoneros train, as if they were a tourist attraction."
Another friend, who has taken my tour twice, replied:
"I think you are talking about the "Real Buenos Aires Tour", which I have taken twice and some of the well known members of this forum too. Feel free to speak up if you went on the tour.
It was the few times in Buenos Aires; I put away the camera, watched and learned something. You can learn something about yourself, or others, the people you happen to be on tour with and maybe you are lucky enough to have all three happen.
But I agree it not for the tourists. It is for those who want to expand their knowledge of the world.
Maybe this is not good for tourism in Buenos Aires or the image of Buenos Aires but it is a true picture."
Thank you, Bill.
Another poster replied:
"The "The Other Argentina" tour that AVRooster so generously offers (I say generously because he doesn't make any money off of it) gives those tourists an opportunity to see the other side of life in Argentina."
Thank you, Roberto
I could ask many other friends who have taken my tour and know what they are talking about (as opposed to the self-proclaimed expert I mentioned above) to reply to that comment, but I feel it's just not worth it.
Mar 9th, 2008 | 04:54 AM
#229
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
AV, I have unfortunately not taken your tour, so I don't feel I should comment. However, here is an article from this morning's Washington Post Travel Section. I will post a link. Sometimes, it stays active, and other times, you have to register with the Post. It is free.
Anyway, only in America would this kind of tour turn into a "Disneyland" event, complete with a stop at a gift shop at the end of the tour......
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030701352.html
AV, maybe you can turn this into a "tiny url". Saludos
Anyway, only in America would this kind of tour turn into a "Disneyland" event, complete with a stop at a gift shop at the end of the tour......
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030701352.html
AV, maybe you can turn this into a "tiny url". Saludos
Mar 9th, 2008 | 05:24 AM
#230
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,799
Likes: 0
About poverty tourism....
Those who are interested in expanding their view or the world and the impact of "globalization" on the social and economic structure of countries around the world would find it instructive to acquaint themselves with the literature (online or in print) about the how the integrated global economy is evolving...and which groups are the winners and which groups are the losers....
With this bit of background knowledge about the conditions that created Cartoneros or the fabricas recuperados....a tour of a recycling facility or a recovered factory would be enlightening and educational.
In terms of AV's Real BA tour...the focus of the tour is much broader...it has always been more about a commuter lifestyle than about Cartoneros per se...and with the demise of the Cartoneros train...the emphasis on poverty is even less nowadays....
A similar tour in New York might include a guide who took a group to Penn Station to catch a train to the suburbs at rush hour, and a tour of the suburban villages and towns in which commuters live, with a dinner in a restaurant where there are no tourists....a trip made more interesting when the volunteer tour guide shares his insights into the political, social and economic climate..past, present and anticipated future....
I highly recommend this tour for those who want to experience a day-in-the-life-of a Porteno (sorry I am typing on computer where the alt 164 instruction does not produce a tilde...must have been made by an English-centric manufacturer )
Those who are interested in expanding their view or the world and the impact of "globalization" on the social and economic structure of countries around the world would find it instructive to acquaint themselves with the literature (online or in print) about the how the integrated global economy is evolving...and which groups are the winners and which groups are the losers....
With this bit of background knowledge about the conditions that created Cartoneros or the fabricas recuperados....a tour of a recycling facility or a recovered factory would be enlightening and educational.
In terms of AV's Real BA tour...the focus of the tour is much broader...it has always been more about a commuter lifestyle than about Cartoneros per se...and with the demise of the Cartoneros train...the emphasis on poverty is even less nowadays....
A similar tour in New York might include a guide who took a group to Penn Station to catch a train to the suburbs at rush hour, and a tour of the suburban villages and towns in which commuters live, with a dinner in a restaurant where there are no tourists....a trip made more interesting when the volunteer tour guide shares his insights into the political, social and economic climate..past, present and anticipated future....
I highly recommend this tour for those who want to experience a day-in-the-life-of a Porteno (sorry I am typing on computer where the alt 164 instruction does not produce a tilde...must have been made by an English-centric manufacturer )
Mar 9th, 2008 | 05:57 AM
#231
Original Poster
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,245
Likes: 0
Milltown, here you are:
http://tinyurl.com/2gx3dl
To do it yourself, just go to:
http://tinyurl.com/create.php
See you soon in BA.
http://tinyurl.com/2gx3dl
To do it yourself, just go to:
http://tinyurl.com/create.php
See you soon in BA.
Mar 9th, 2008 | 06:00 AM
#232
Original Poster
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,245
Likes: 0
Says drdawggy, the universally acknowledged TOP Internet authority
on BA:
"I highly recommend this tour for those who want to experience a day-in-the-life-of a Porteño" (I corrected the lack of an "ñ" in his computer).
Wow, this could make my tour even more popular than I want it to be!
I'll have to do something about that! LOL!!!
on BA:
"I highly recommend this tour for those who want to experience a day-in-the-life-of a Porteño" (I corrected the lack of an "ñ" in his computer).
Wow, this could make my tour even more popular than I want it to be!
I'll have to do something about that! LOL!!!
Mar 27th, 2008 | 06:10 PM
#234
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
AVRooster
That is why Buenos Aires is special for me. I seem to have done many first time thing while in BA.
First time gone horse back riding and did it at Estancia Los Dos Hemanos. First time I have taken a cooking class and that was Cooking with Teresita for some empandas. First time I gone to some one's home to have dinner, paying for the privilege to eat in their home. That was at Casa Saltshaker.
And in Buenos Aires, it was the first time I gone on a non touristy tour and enjoyed it. The was the REAL Buenos Aires tour.
I know I am a better person for all these first I did.
AV look for an email from me. On was recently on TV here in New York City. Of course the only thing I would be on TV is as a photographer.
Bill
http://www.WilliamBert.com
That is why Buenos Aires is special for me. I seem to have done many first time thing while in BA.
First time gone horse back riding and did it at Estancia Los Dos Hemanos. First time I have taken a cooking class and that was Cooking with Teresita for some empandas. First time I gone to some one's home to have dinner, paying for the privilege to eat in their home. That was at Casa Saltshaker.
And in Buenos Aires, it was the first time I gone on a non touristy tour and enjoyed it. The was the REAL Buenos Aires tour.
I know I am a better person for all these first I did.
AV look for an email from me. On was recently on TV here in New York City. Of course the only thing I would be on TV is as a photographer.
Bill
http://www.WilliamBert.com
Sep 7th, 2008 | 07:37 AM
#236
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 9,773
Likes: 0
Hi Avrooster, Have been reading with interest your many posts and in particular, this one. Are you still running these tours? If so, we are spending a month in BA in December at teh end of our year long round the world trip and would very much like to take advantage of your tour and your knowledge. Do you have an email address I can contact you on?
Sep 7th, 2008 | 09:48 AM
#237
Original Poster
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,245
Likes: 0
Hi, crellston!
On 02/27/2008 at 03:36 pm, I wrote in this thread:
"As I have mentioned somewhere above, my tour, which included watching the 'cartonero train' pass and explaining the circumstances that led to its existence, does not exist any more, at least in that format, because the "cartonero train" was discontinued late last year."
So, the answer is no, I am no longer doing this tour, at least not in its original form.
About my e-mail, if you read this thread, you should find it soon enough.
"A month in BA in December at teh end of our year long round the world trip"! Wow, that's great! Write to me whenever you want.
On 02/27/2008 at 03:36 pm, I wrote in this thread:
"As I have mentioned somewhere above, my tour, which included watching the 'cartonero train' pass and explaining the circumstances that led to its existence, does not exist any more, at least in that format, because the "cartonero train" was discontinued late last year."
So, the answer is no, I am no longer doing this tour, at least not in its original form.
About my e-mail, if you read this thread, you should find it soon enough.
"A month in BA in December at teh end of our year long round the world trip"! Wow, that's great! Write to me whenever you want.
Dec 18th, 2008 | 06:37 PM
#238
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Hello, avrooster:
You may not recall, given the volume of your correspondence on this board, but you were kind enough to offer some counsel a while back on apartment location (Recoleta, Juncal near Montevideo) for my wife, teenage son and myself. Well, we arrive next week for an 11-day visit, our first. We are "city people" (having lived in NY, Washington DC and Paris in various incarnations) and thus are looking forward to experiencing, well, the "Real" BA to the extent that is possible for non-Spanish speakers. In an earlier exchange, you suggested I contact you again when our visit grew near to see if there was a chance of participating in your tour or, if that's not practical given the holiday season (or lingering knee issues!), to seek some direction on how to approximate it ourselves -- perhaps specific thoughts on train accessible neighborhood visits that might offer our son (and his parents!) a glimpse of real life? Many thanks.
You may not recall, given the volume of your correspondence on this board, but you were kind enough to offer some counsel a while back on apartment location (Recoleta, Juncal near Montevideo) for my wife, teenage son and myself. Well, we arrive next week for an 11-day visit, our first. We are "city people" (having lived in NY, Washington DC and Paris in various incarnations) and thus are looking forward to experiencing, well, the "Real" BA to the extent that is possible for non-Spanish speakers. In an earlier exchange, you suggested I contact you again when our visit grew near to see if there was a chance of participating in your tour or, if that's not practical given the holiday season (or lingering knee issues!), to seek some direction on how to approximate it ourselves -- perhaps specific thoughts on train accessible neighborhood visits that might offer our son (and his parents!) a glimpse of real life? Many thanks.
