We are a family of 4, considering a trip to Argentina this June-July, as long as 3 weeks. I will be attending a conference part of the time, in Buenos Aires. We had been planning to spend about half the time visiting Rio and Bahia, but, frankly -- despite all the encouragement on this forum -- we heard one too many stories of visitors being physically assaulted, just last week. So, we're off Brazil. The question now is: what would people suggest we do for 3 weeks in Argentina during their winter?

We are definitely not winter sports enthusiasts, so opportunities for skiing are not appealing. We'd like to go South, but would the cold be uncomfortable? Would it still be pleasant to tour Patagonia and the Lake District? Or would we encounter icy conditions, snowstorms, etc.? Are there any towns in the North that are worth a special trip, and where the weather might be a little better?

We have read a lot about Iguazu, and would plan to spend 3 nights there. (Which raises another question. I've read conflicting reports -- is it necessary to have Brazilian visas to spend one day on the Brazilian side of the Falls?)

We are experienced travellers, and have been to Europe and China on our own. We generally like first class, but not luxury, accomodations, etc.

Thank you in advance for any advice you may have for us.

Ed:
A wouldnt quit visiting specially Bahia. Cánt belive its that bad !
As for B. A. and Argentina let me give you a few ideas:
a) For B.A. a week to 10 days is good enough .There are many side tours ( day tours / week end)
Eg)a) Estancias , if you enjoy horse riding , BBQs and some natural sorroundings.
b)Tigre Delta . A private boat tour w/lunch on board or at Hosterias w/water activities (rowing /fishing ) and island walks.
c) Trip to Colonia in Uruguay . Historical city.
d) Martín Garcia Island.
Dont miss = 3 day in Iguazú falls
Mendoza province w/ a wine tour.
The south of Argentina will be cold.
Maybe Santiago de Chile and sorroundings
is a nice 3/5 days stay if not choosing Brazil.
For hotels in B.A. , there are many very good ones to choose depending on your preferences .Dónt miss a visit to Palermo soho , nice restaurants and shops.

You can check out the average temperatures for many places in Argentina and Chile on www.weather.com, or just look at the photos in the skiing section of the Llao Llao resort website. In southern Chile and Argentina it really is winter in July. If winter sports are out, would you otherwise enjoy a holiday with snow and winter clothes? Some people do and some don't.

If you like wine, I recommend visiting the Mendoza area of Argentina. The weather is definitely cool in June and July but I don't think they get a lot of snow. The wineries are generally very small but very welcoming of visitors, although you do need appointments in advance. And Mendoza is a lovely small city. You can also fly to Santiago de Chile and visit wineries there.

Search the board and you will find other ideas for the Salta area of Argentina (north of Mendoza), I have not been there myself.

If you want warmer weather have you considered some places more off the beaten path in Brazil? An Amazon lodge visit or some time on the beach in Morro de Sao Paulo or Costa do Sauipe? They definitely aren't Rio, or Salvador for that matter.

Thank you for your responses.

We are definitely not lovers of cold weather -- snow and bundling up -- fans, and wouldn't be going to South America that time of year but for the conference I'll be attending in Buenos Aires. It sounds like BA weather will be okay, as it's close to our winter weather in Northern California. We just wouldn't want to get any colder than that, nor risk getting travel plans bogged down in snowstorms.

It sounds then like Mendoza would be a good bet, and perhaps Salta? I've started reading about those areas. Is Mendoza worth the trip if we don't tour the wineries? Our kids are too young for wine, so they get bored if we haul them around to wineries, but we nonetheless enjoy Napa and Sonoma for the scenery, great restaurants, and so forth. Would Mendoza be similar to these areas in California?

Also, is it worth visiting Montevideo as well as Colonia? Should we consider stopping in Colonia for one night en route to Montevideo, then flying back to BA from there?

Thanks again.

Mendoza without the wineries or the nearby mountains (the mountains are cold in July) is not worth a trip in my opinion.....

Iguazu and Salta are perhaps the warmest areas of Argentina.

Iguazu is worth a trip, and the kids will enjoy the falls....depending on their age, there are several active tours you can do....rapelling and a boat ride that will take you almost under the falls (one of the most exciting trips imagineable! ).......Here is the url of a nice place for families to stay....cabins on the river, just outside of the town.....www.suparacataratas.com.ar
tel. 011-54-3757-422542.

You will need to arrange transportation to/from the falls, but they can help you with this in the hotel office, where some of the workers speak English....

About a visa to visit Brazil. The answer is not as clear as you would probably like...By law, you need a visa. In the real world, the law is very often ignored for day visitors to Iguazu. On any given day, you might encounter a cranky or rigid border person who decides to enforce the letter of the law, but this is not likely.....I have been across twice in the past 12 months without a problem....

In BA, you might look at renting an apartment or staying in an aparthotel with a family of four....and since you will be there for three weeks with chidren, by all means think about staying outside of the downtown area....look for places in Palermo or Belgrano, which are much more family friendly than the city center or Recoleta.....

Agree with drdawggy that Mendoza without the wineries and the mountains is not worth the trip. There are some nice places to eat but it doesn't come close to Napa or Sonoma. We drove over the Andes from Mendoza to Santiago, which was truly spectacular but that was in December - I would never do it in the winter.

Can I make another pitch for Brazil? I live and work in suburban Salvador. First the bad stuff: The historic area of Salvador (Pelhourino) is, in my opinion, a high stress place and the government needs to work much harder to control petty crime. I don't like being approached by people constantly. It's ok for a quick visit in the daytime sans wallet, purse or camera but not somewhere to hang around or stay. I have not yet been to Rio, but I expect some of the beach areas to be similar, at least at night.

Now the good stuff: once you get away from those very few high stress areas, you can have a very relaxed holiday here. I drive everywhere, I go to the mall and the bank and lots of downtown restaurants at night (just not in the historic district) with absolutely no problem. Here in Bahia the resorts at Costa do Sauipe are lovely, last Sunday we spent the day at Praia do Forte which is a cute tourist place (mostly Brazilian tourists) that has a nice and quite expensive ecoresort with biologist-led treks on the beach and kayaking to see wildlife.

Fly to Salvador, rent a car at Hertz, turn right as you leave the airport - you just follow one (good) road to Praia do Forte and Costa do Sauipe. Take an organized tour from one of the resorts to the historic district. Just something to think about.

I appreciate the pitch for Bahia, lovesprada. It seems a shame to feel we have to skip Rio if we go to Brazil, though. I'm really disappointed that we're ruling out Brazil, because it has always been near the top of my list for places I'd want to visit, especially Rio. We were just about to purchase the tickets for a return home from Rio, and then the last crime story was about a friend's friend who was assaulted on a crowded street in a good area, just yards from his hotel, a few weeks ago in Rio at mid-morning. He'd been out for a jog, and as he was returning he was suddenly surrounded by a gang of young men, one of whom quickly almost sliced his ear off with some kind of knife or razor. The idea was to produce enough profuse bleeding to divert his attention, and in the confusion they quickly got his hidden wallet. My wife and I would probably feel much more comfortable going there on our own, but with our kids, we're too worried that they could be grabbed or assaulted as a diversion in a robbery.

drdawggy, I realized that I didn't specify the ages of our kids, which might affect recommendations -- they are daughters and will be 16 and 18. Would you still suggest staying outside the BA downtown? For about 4 days we'll want to stay where my meeting is, in the central area, at the Sheraton Libertad.

Given our restrictions -- i.e. that we want to avoid cold weather and that wineries won't keep half the family happy -- do you think that we could still keep busy and enjoy a full 3 weeks in Argentina? It sounds like, from a weather standpoint, the main places to consider visiting outside of BA are Salta, Iguazu, and a trip over to Colonia in Uruguay.

If 3 weeks in Argentina that time of year is too much, another idea we've had is to stay only 2 weeks in Argentina, and then stop in Lima on the way back to the States, for a sidetrip to Machu Pichu. Does this sound like a reasonable plan, or too much for a family that is used to fairly leisurely travel? I'm still not quite clear from my reading, whether getting to Machu Pichu on our own from Lima is an easy trip.

Again, many thanks for the suggestions.

Why don't you start a new post for Lima and Machu Pichu? Lots of people on the board have been there. (I've been to Lima on business but that was 10 years ago, and Machu Pichu is still on the "to do" list.)

Or what about a Galapagos island trip?

I caught up on my reading of messages about Machu Pichu and Peru on this board last night -- also a few guidebooks. Now Peru is sounding like Brazil in terms of all the warnings about safety in Lima and Cuzco! I think my real question remains: Given our restrictions (cold weather concerns and wineries not being of interest), do people think that the full 3 weeks could still be spent enjoyably in Argentina, at that time of year?

I will spend three enjoyeable months in Buenos Aires this year, from Mid-May until Mid-August. Buenos Aires is full of things to do and see--from the opera (Your kids will yawn, probably) to restaurants and plays to site seeing and just kicking back!

About your hotel....I don't care much for the location as a place to hang with the family....on a busy downtown street filled with office workers during the night and that mostly empties at night, except for some unsavory characters who lurk on street corners....

So, yes, even with the age of your kids...and maybe especially with their ages....I would still recommend looking at Recoleta or Palermo as an option.....

Your kids would love Las Canitas or Palermo Viejo....teen and young adult paradise!

Based on your advice, drdawggy, I think we may stay in another part of BA, and I'll take a taxi to my meetings.

You had mentioned Salta, and I've been researching the area. How many nights would you suggest in Salta? Can it be used as a base for touring the area, or should we rent a car and plan on stopping in the nearby towns for the night as we tour? Is it possible to see the area by hiring taxis by the day? If so, any idea of prices? Or are the buses adequate? And do you have any thoughts about hotels in the area? There's very little of substance on the message board about Salta. Thanks.

While awaiting any responses about Salta, another question:

We can get adjoining Queen and "Cozy" Double for the 4 of us at the Art Hotel for about $150 all inclusive of VAT and breakfast buffet. I've read that this is a relatively new hotel, with smallish rooms but good service. I'm not as sure about the location. Does this sound like a good spot for a family with 2 teenage daughters? The Artsuites sounds a little better, but they require a full 25% front end, potentially nonrefundable deposit -- and for 9 days stay that's quite a bit to pay upfront.

Thanks again.

I would recommend staying at an estancia. either outside of Ba or in the hills of Cordoba. I think that Estancia La Paz in Ascochinga(45 minutes outside of cordoba)is great. Do some horseback riding/golf visit the Jesuit missions.Shouldn't be that cold then.