michaelpianko

Trip report: Saturday, August 26th: My flight from Detroit to Mexico City left at 9:20am. I had tried taking this trip on May 20th of this year, but on that date there was too much volcanic ash and my flights were canceled. I got my money back and rescheduled... After getting through the passport checking procedure, I picked the first taxi stand I saw, paid with a debit card, and an employee led me to where the taxi would come. The ride was over an hour because traffic was so slow, even though the driving distance was approximately only 6.2 to 8.2 miles. After arriving at Hostal Juarez and checking in, I had to find an Automatic Teller Machine and then I had time to buy some fruit and supplies at Mercado Juarez, the closest Mexican market to the Hostal. Mexico has multiple covered markets inwarehouse-like buildings that have multiple vendors selling prepared food, produce, some other foods, and souvenirs and certain products like the plastic clothes hangers and reusable rubber gloves I bought.



Sunday, August 27th: My first stop was Museo Templo Mayor. I was able to view the outdoor ruins and some artifacts indoors. Nearby was the spectacle of the people dressed in Aztec clothes dancing, beating drums, and administering some kind of ritual involving incense, to whoever would pay. Then I had some kind of miniature soft taco appetizer and some kind of chicken sandwich that had too much avocado and mayonnaise, at a low end Mexican restaurant with table service. In the past I had a phase in my adult life when I was afraid restaurant food is bad for you and I know that it is all made with salt, oil, and/or sugar. But I decided to let myself eat one restaurant meal per day. My next stop was the Museo de la Secretaria de Hacienda y Credito Publico, a tax collecting agency that has a smallish art collection the agency allowed artists to donate instead of paying cash for taxes. There was one Diego Rivera painting and some other artists I didn’t recognize, a collection of typewriters, and a lot to read, which I skipped even though I had tried teaching myself Spanish before my trip. Then I had a ticket for Luche Libra Mexican wrestling, at Arena Mexico, at 5pm. There were four founds or sessions, the 2nd session was women. The electronic ticket saved to my phone worked.



Monday, August 28th:

Today was a trip to the remains of ancient Teotihuacan. I took the subway trains to Terminal del Norte, then bought round trip tickets to and from Teotihuacan. I spent over 5 hours there, including the times I stopped to sit. I walked through the place unguided. On the way out, I bought a t-shirt. That was my only souvenir I bought on this whole trip. Look at the map of the place: I entered at gate 2, turned right, walked to the end, climbed the pyramid they let you climb, walked back but turned onto the path toward the site museum, after the site museum I continued onto a path that is not the avenue of the Dead, until I got to the Pyramids at the opposite end, then past the pyramids of the sun and Moon and palace of the serpent, back along the avenue of the dead, back to gate 2.



Tuesday, August 29th: I had an advance ticket to the Museo Frida Kahlo. I spend about an hour there. Then I took an Uber ride to Museo Anahuacalli, Diego Rivera’s museum of his pre-Columbian artifacts – there were a lot of figurines, maybe some clay bowls, and a few modern abstract recent works, and some big sketches of murals. The figurines were all unique but they started all seeming the same after seeing ten of them. Then I took an Uber to Mercado Coyoacan. I ate something in a sauce that was awful because it was spicy. Then I walked the Leon Trotsky house, just because it was there, even though communism is a mental disorder. Then a bus and subway to the synagogue in the Centro Historico. They had to see my identification; I showed my passport. The synagogue was built in 1940, abandoned in 1965; restoration starting in about 2005. Then to Colegio de San Ildefonso, an art school or former art school with some paintings from 2000 to 2023 on display and some older murals. This is place is not so big. I spent about a half hour here. Then to the house of Tiles, a historic building covered with tiles on the outside, which now houses a Sanborn’s, a combination of high-class restaurant, drug store, and department store. Then to the Torre Latinoamericana. I paid to ride the elevator to the observation deck on approximately the 39th floor and looked at some pictures of the tower, on the 38th floor. Or at least I vaguely remember the observation area being on the 37th or 39th floor even though descriptions on the internet say the observation area in on the 44th floor.



Wednesday, August 30th: I started with a tour of the Palacio Nacional. Mainly they only show you a courtyard and a detailed explanation of some murals by Diego Rivera and possibly murals by somebody else. I was able to join an English tour without trouble. I followed the directions in the reply to my e-mail: I showed up before 10am at the counter at Moneda 4, they made me give them my passport and they held it until I returned, the tour started at 10:30.After the tour I walked ot the Museo Nacional de Arte. I noticed some old Catholic-themed paintings which wouldn’t be spiritually meaningful to me because I wasn’t raised Catholic, some decent landscapes, some paintings of people, detailed well-made sculpture, landscapes that were not photo-realistic but still able to see that it contained a representation of an animal, volcano, landscape, and so on. Then I had time for the murals and art exhibit in the Palacio de Bellas Artes. This is a fancy building that also has concert halls. Then I went to the Museo del Estanquillo – The exhibits are old black-and-white photo-portraits, some cartoons, some drawings. Only see this museum if you have extra time, don’t make it your first stop. Then I had time for the Palacio de Cultura Citibanamex – Palacio de Iturbide. This is a smallish museum of Mexican paintings from about the 1700’s, including a series of paintings meant to teach the racial categories in New Spain; the paintings had messages in Spanish that taught something like, “ an Indian and a Spaniard is this category”, “an Indian and a black person is this category”, and so on, they had categories such as meztiso, morisco, and so on. I didn’t realize they had so many categories; inventing and teaching the categories is a mental disorder. Then I had time to walk to the Monument to the Revolution. It was dark when I arrived. I skipped taking the elevator to the top even though the elevator ride was actually open, because I figured that one tower, the Torre Latinoamericana, was enough. The monument was illuminated from the outside. Then I walked to a small grocery store called Sumesa. The cashier had trouble breaking a $500 peso bill. I should have used a debit card.



Thursday, August 31st: I arrived at the Museo National de Antropologia at approximately 9:35am and stayed until approximately 4pm. Then I walked partly through Chapultepec park. I had a late lunch at a place in the park that had tables, with chairs and umbrellas; it cost 100 pesos. I stopped to take a picture of the Altar a la Patria - a monument with 6 tall columns; the Baños de Chapultepec; then I made my way back to the hostel because it was raining too much.



Friday, September 1st: My first stop was the Zona Arqueologica Tlatelolco. I took the subway and then had to do some walking, passing some parking lots and areas that were intermediate between ritzy and decrepit. I paid 75 pesos to enter the site. I had the site to myself. Small crowds that could have been part of guided tours were gathered at a point along the fence surrounding the site. At the end of the path through the ruins, I went into the church made from destroyed pyramids. The Plaza de las Tres Culturas was right next to the church and the ruins. People were there but it was the opposite of crowded. The whole site took about an hour. Apparently also there was a mass shooting by government agents at this site in 1968; there was a plaque about this. My next stop was Chapultepec Castle. The castle took abou t2-1/2 hours. This was where Maximillio Hapsburg stayed when he was ruling Mexico as part of the French intervention in Mexico in about 1864-1867. The National History Museum is at this site too. Then I walked partly through Chapultepec park, past a CDMX sign, then to the Modern Art Museum – it has one Frida Kahlo painting, a gallery of paintings and drawings of volcanos, and fortunately no super junk works like splatters of paint of canvas. Then I took an Uber ride to the Angel of Independence monument, then past a fountain called Fuente de la Cazadora, just to take a picture of it, just because it was there.



Saturday, September 2nd: My first stop was Museo Soumaya. I took the subway and a bus. This is a museum set up by Carlos Slim, a super-successful business owner who owned a phone company and maybe other businesses. The top floor is mostly statues; the best statues were the ancient Greek inspired ones on the 2nd floor. The place has a collection of antique telephones, wind-up pocket watches, multiple old European paintings. Then I bought some street food less than 100 yards from the museum. Then I went into JUMEX, a modern art museum right next to the Soumaya, just because it was there. There were works by 3 artists, all made of junk; one exhibit was a mockery of the office environment, with a maze made of cubicle dividers and a lot of shredded paper on the floor. I didn’t bother participating but this was an audience participation work where the a guard was part of the show and to enter the maze you had to fill out a ridiculous and absurd form; I didn’t see any successfully get into the maze. That evening it was raining. I didn’t go anywhere else.

Fra_Diavolo

Congratulations Michael on making the trip! What were your impressions of the Anthropology Museum and Teotihuacan? Also glad to see you tried the local eateries.

mlgb

Thanks for the report back. Did you get sick? Did you try out your fledgling Spanish at all? Perhaps asking "is it spicy" might have been a good phrase to learn since you apparently don't care for spicy that.

Paqngo

How wonderful for you to make this trip! Glad you are trying some of the most amazing food in the world. Looking forward to the rest of your report.

michaelpianko

Sunday, September 3rd: I took an Uber to the bus station. My bus to Puebla left at 9am. I had bought the ticket from ADO at home online. It took about 4 hours from the time I left my hostel in Mexico City until I got to my hostel in Puebla. In Puebla first I went into the church (Parroquia del Sagrario Metropolitano) across the street from the hostel just because it was there. Then walked to Mercado 5 de Mayo. I had a Cemita Poblano sandwich; it was too salty, had too much cheese, it might have given me heartburn. My next stop was the Biblioteca Palafaxiana, a library founded in 1646, the oldest library in the Americas; also I was in the Catedral de Puebla before of after the library. On the way to the market I walked along a packed pedestrianized shopping street with so many stores selling shoes and clothes, a little bit of housewares, a few street performers – somebody dressed as Spiderman or Superman, and two people dressed as characters from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.



Monday, September 4th: I took an Uber to Cholula. I had forgot that the archaeological zone was closed Mondays. But I went to the church at the top of the pyramid because it was open and I was already at the bottom of the pyramid. Then another Uber to Mercado del Carmen. It was dark and almost deserted compared to the other markets I had been to. I had chicken soup with a chicken leg that was too tough, and a short stack of soft tortillas. Then to the Museo Amparo. It has old figurines and earthenware vessels, a model of a house from about the 1500’s-1800’s, and some modern art, the kind made of junk, and at least one video installation. My next stop was the Viviente Puebla, an exhibit of reptiles and snakes and a few birds. I hadn’t originally planned to stop here but I was looking for something to do. A worker who was a student was able to give me an English tour that lasted at least 45 minutes; they don’t let people in unguided. Many of the species were not native to Mexico; there were no Axolotls. The aquarium on Belle Isle in Detroit had Axolotls when I was there. Then I took an Uber to the mirador de los Fuertes, near the forts and park area northeast of the middle of Puebla.



Tuesday, September 5th: I took an Uber to Cholula again and walked the rest of the way, probably a half mile or less?, to the archaeological zone. Most of the ruins were barely above ground level. My next stop was Mercado de Cholula. I had another chicken cemita sandwich but this time I got it without cheese. Then I went to the Archaeological-site museum, then another Uber to Santa Maria Tonantzintla Church. I went just because I had read about it, but I only appreciated the churches in a superficial way from seeing the extensive decoration but the churches were not spiritually meaningful because I wasn’t raised Catholic. Yes there was decoration popping out of every square foot of ceiling and wall. My next stop was the Casa del Alfeñique. It occupied me for about a half-hour. This is an old house turned into a museum. Then back to the hostel and it started raining.



Wednesday, September 6th: My bus to Oaxaca de Juarez left at 10:35am. I had forgoten that I read that Azul Cielo Hostal requires payment in cash but they let me drop my stuff off in my room and then I paid later that evening. I walked to an Automatic Teller Machine where I took money out of my account. Then I walked to Mercado 20 de Noviembre because it was open until 7pm.



Thursday, September 7th: I paid 100 pesos round trip for a tour van operated by Lescas to drive me to Monte Alban. The site had a lot of stone raised platforms; it was smaller than Teotihuacan but still occupied me for 2-1/2 hours. Then I had time for the museum of Cultures of Oaxaca. I spent about an hour and a half there, but I didn’t try reading everything. There were some coins on display; I always like to see coins but they were flat; I wish they were in a horizontal acrylic display case. I saw the necklaces and objects from tomb 7 at Monte Alban, and the highly ornately carved pieces of bone that are white and shaped like knife blades. Next stop was the Museo de los Pintores Oaxaqueños. This was only a small collection of some recent paintings from about the 1970’s to 2000’s. Next stop was the Central Fotografico Manuel Alvaro Bravo. This is just a small collection of poor-quality old black-and-white photographs. Also I briefly went into more than one church.

michaelpianko

Friday, September 8th: I took the bus to Mitla. Following the recommendation of a hostel employee, I got on the bus on Periférico next to Chedaui, NOT near a stadium east of an ADO bus station and north of the middle of town, as some suggested in the forums online before my trip. I waited about 15 to 20 minutes for a bus going to Mitla to arrive. After getting off the bus at the middle of the town of Mitla, at first I was going to walk to the archaeological site, maybe to compensate for sitting so much on the bus, but an older guy driving one of the gas-powered 3-wheeled covered carts seemed to be imploring me to get on, and I gave in and got on and avoided walking about 0.8 to 0.9 of a mile. The site seemed ot be divided into two areas, separated by about 50 yards of street with vendors selling clothes and souvenirs. The ruins consisted of at least 3 courtyards surrounded by long narrow rooms with high walls and missing roofs. Two partially covered square holes were tombs. Then I had a lunch in a low-end restaurant just high class enough to have table service; I had rice and chicken that was too tough and some tortillas, and same kind I had had more than once. It cost me about 150 pesos. This was my second-most expensive restaurant meal, after the lunch in the anthropology museum. I was wrong above; I ate a late lunch in a restaurant with table service in Chapultepec park, after the Chapultepec castle but before the modern art museum. My most expensive restaurant meal was a lunch in the anthropology museum, of some kind of chicken that might have been spicy, sweet potato, and some kind of black-gray bean soup. I have trouble eating anything spicy.... at the town of Mitla, after the restaurant, I took another ride in a 3-wheeled gas-powered covered cart to the place where I had gotten off the bus. I tried waiting for a collective covered pickup-truck to Hierve el Agua. Only one other lady, an English speaker from the UK who could have been 10 or more years younger than me, was waiting for the covered pick-up truck. The pick-up truck driver finally found us a collective taxi, which cost 500 pesos total but only 250 pesos for me and 250 the lady. She was quite reluctant to take the shared taxi because she thought that was a high price. I thought it was a good price. The driver seemed to drive as fast as possible. On the way back, the pick-up truck driver drove rather slow and carefully. The Hierve el Agua site took me about 2 hours. I saw the waterfall-shaped calcium-carbonate left behind by the little trickles of creeks, as completely as possible. I wasted over an hour from about 4 to 5 pm, waiting near the parking lot, on a bench, before enough people showed up to fill up a collective pick-up truck. The ride was about 75 pesos. I ended up in the second row of seats inside the cab of the vehicle instead of in the bed of the pickup-truck. Also while at the park it started raining but then the rain almost stopped before leaving. The driver took us back to the side of a road in Mitla next to a closed bus-station. After 10 minutes, a bus arrived that we were able to get on. I wasn’t sure whether I would be able to get on a bus or whether I would have to take a taxi. I got off the bus by Chedraui, bought something there and took a taxi back to the hostel. There was a note in the hostel recommending taking a taxi back to the hostel if arriving after 9pm, although I didn’t want to feel like the area was dangerous.

Saturday, September 9th: The final Friday and Saturday of my trip were the most complex due to the transportation and where I went. Today I walked to Valerio Trujano street, just north of the Central Abastos de Oaxaca market area. I found a collective taxi going toward Santa Maria Atzompa. Two people were already waiting in the back seats of the car. My destination was the Archaeological zone of Atzompa. This site might have been founded by people from Monte Alban, and/or the residents had to pay tribute to Monte Alban or maybe it was part of Monte Alban or a satellite of Monte Alban. Both sites are probably less than 5 miles apart but on different hills. Unfortunately the driver dropped me off by the site museum, which was closed. Then I had to walk at least 1.8 miles one way to the site, uphill along a deserted road. This site is much less commonly visited that Monte Alban. I had the site to myself except I saw one lone guy laying on a bench, and one couple illegally sitting on the steps of a pyramid. I should have tried getting a ride on one of the 3 wheeled gas-powered free carts I saw. There were no carts near the entrance to the site. The site took me about 2 hours including sitting on a bench once and another break. But the views of Oaxaca were spectacular. At the bottom of the hill, I was able to get a ride in a cart and then I got a colectivo-taxi driver to agree to drive me to Mercado 5 de Noviembre. But traffic was so slow that I paid and got out of the taxi over a mile away from the Mercado. I had a chicken leg in black mole sauce, rice, and more plain tortillas. It was weird but at least it wasn’t spicy. But I specified “no queso” and “no picante.” Then I went to the Museo Sitio Casa Juarez. It is 6 rooms that were the house Benito Juarez grew up in. It took me 15 minutes. There wasn’t much to see. My next stop was the textile de Oaxaca. It was just a few fancy shirts or dresses. Then I saw a big celebration in the street. Maybe it was part of a wedding? There were teenagers or young adults playing instruments like drumbs, clarinets and brass; a larger-than-life sized puppet with a person at the bottom inside it, like the puppet was a costume; a bit round thing on a pole somebody kept spinning, and people dancing in a circle like crazy, and some lady was dressed in a white dress that extended to her feet but most of her torso was exposed and her rear-end was barely covered and it was too loose on her and every so often she would pull on it or pull it up. Then I went to the Museo de la Filatelia – a talk was being given in the museum, which seemed to be blocking access some rooms; there was barely anything to see. It is supposed to be a museum of stamps. While walking along the streets, I glanced at some drawing and paintings and souvenirs for sale. I didn’t buy anything. I would have been as happy or more if I had skipped these small museums and sat on a bench in the Zocalo.

Sunday, September 10th: My flights back to Detroit left from Oaxaca at 10:27am. The flights back worked out well. [I didn’t have to go through airport security again when switching planes in Mexico City. Apparently Delta does their own extra security stunts and apparently I keep getting flagged for special treatment, involving an extra search of my bags and emptying of my pockets, maybe because I am a single bearded man? This was done in Mexico City and not in Oaxaca. I was afraid I would miss my flights. I made it onto my flight]

michaelpianko

I did not get sick. Unlike in Spain. I was not even aware of problems due to the elevation. On the tour of the Palacio Nacional, I was out of breath after going up flights of stairs. I hope that was because of the elevation. And my ears didn't feel good during and just after going ot the top of the Torre Latinoamericana. But I recovered soon after leaving the tower.

Sí, intenté decir algunas frases en español para parecer inteligente.

michaelpianko

Maybe I didn't get as much out of the archaeology museum as I could have because I didn't read all of the descriptions. I read the bold faced titles and tried figuring out approximately what most of what I was. There was some English; I could read some of the Spanish due to having tried teaching myself some Spanish. I found out what a Teponaztli is.

mlgb

I haven't gone back and reread all of your multiple planning threads, but I think maybe ONE person (Christina) was trying to find you some information on the bus to Mitla. I think most of us suggested you either use a taxi or take a tour, to go to Mitla and Hierve del Agua in the same day, even if included a stop at a Mezcal distillery. It sounds like you wasted a lot of time (more than at a distillery?) and probably paid more than if you had gone on a tour.
Did you conclude that it was a good idea to ignore the advice about finding a tour?

I don't think most people go to Tonantzintla for the "spiritual" reason, but for the 17th century baroque mix of indigenous and Catholic. If you had taken a tour or read more about it, you would have understood. Most people do not think visiting the archaeological site at Cholula is worthwhile, and just view it from the outside, what did you think? I'm surprised you didn't have the research or forgot that it was closed, and even more so that you went back for a second day, rather than going on to Tzonantzintla (and San Francisco Acatepec). Then you would have time to see some of the other museums In Puebla that you missed. Did you consider stopping in to the tourist center to see if there was a day tour? According to Viator, they have one now for $8. https://www.viator.com/tours/Puebla-...50490-14576P13


Oh, congratulations on learning to use Uber. Did you think it went well?

PS as far as the tough chicken in the soup, it is typical to use old stewing hens for making soup because they have the most flavor. I notice that you didn't complain about the flavor of the soup, how did it compare with your mother's?

michaelpianko

By accident I saved money on my trip to Mitla and Hierve el Agua. My budget wasn't tight enough that I cared. I could have afforded an organized tour. Yes I wasted about 2 hours total waiting. On a guided tour with a tour van I would have spent the 2 hours in the workshops instead of waiting for the pickup trucks. I perceived that the workshops wouldn't be interesting, I don't drink alcohol, and I wasn't going to buy any other products either. You are technically right that the guided tour would have been easier.

As for the soup, my mom gave up making chicken soup but the soup in Mexico had about the same saltiness as what I remember my mother making, except that in Mexico they probably added salt, while my mother didn't add salt but she only uses kosher chicken, which is processed with salt, which has something to do with an obsessive-compulsive fear of eating even a tiny amount of blood.

Edit: living on my own I have boiled non-kosher chicken in water; I didn't add salt; my broth did not taste salty like what I had in Mexico.

michaelpianko

Uber worked well. The longest I waited for a driver was about 10 minutes. When possible and reasonable, in Mexico City, I walked and used the metro. the subway. The buses were harder to figure out and/or I doubted I would find the bus I wanted. Once near Chapultepec park, I wanted to take a bus. Buses kept arriving, but I couldn't identify which of them, if any, was the bus I wanted. I finally gave up and ordered an Uber. I took a subway and then a bus, to the Soumaya museum. Not the metro bus but one of the smaller buses that doesn't require a card, where you just pay the driver in cash.

Fra_Diavolo

I'm not getting a sense your reactions to Mexico. Are you glad you went? Would you go back to visit other areas, such as the mountain towns north of Mexico City? What disappointed you? What did you especially enjoy?

michaelpianko

I am glad I went to Mexico. I saw most of what I thought I wanted to see. I missed the Palacio Postal in Mexico City. I probably didn't miss much. I am happy that my trip turned out ok, contrary to my mother's worry. I avoided getting assaulted or robbed; I did not get sick. I did not catch a virus or have a problem due to the elevation. I had thought to try going to Mexico in the past because I didn't think I wanted to rent a car and I thought the long distance buses were supposed to be dangerous. The buses worked out well. Even an aunt and my brother were suspicious that I was doing something unsafe.

michaelpianko

I have not thought to go to the mountain towns north of Mexico City. Without doing some research, if I was going to travel to Mexico again, my first thought would be to go to the Yucatan area, to Chichen Itza and Uxmal. Maybe I saw enough ruins. I have thought of traveling to Germany, France, and/or Peru. And/or I could travel to Tennessee; I read that in Nashville there is a replica of what the Parthenon in Athen, Greece, would have looked like when it was new. I went to Canada twice as a kid, once as an adult, and took 6 solo trips to Europe.

chrisdaniel0933

Thanks for reporting back to posters here who helped you plan. And congratulations for overcoming fears, both your own and those of relatives, and then having a great trip! While in Mexico I sometimes find that unexpected experiences, such as simply watching everyday life unfold, can be as rewarding as going to guidebook 'sights'.

Building on the practical things that you've learned you could potentially venture a bit further afield in Mexico next time.

"Without doing some research, if I was going to travel to Mexico again, my first thought would be to go to the Yucatan area, to Chichen Itza and Uxmal. Maybe I saw enough ruins."

If you decide to visit the Yucatan Peninsula, or other low elevation places in Mexico, to avoid exposure to excessive heat, make that trip during the winter. Also, there's much more to enjoy in Mexico than ruins. Located northwest of Mexico City, Guanajuato is very [size=13px]attractive[/size] and lively. I also especially like Las Grutas de Tolantongo, a very affordable 'resort' that is located north of Mexico City in a scenic canyon where a hot springs river flows out of a cavern. But, to avoid crowds, go there during a normal work week rather than at busier weekend and holiday times.

Paqngo

That resonates with me. I have found this to be true everywhere I have traveled.

michaelpianko

It was worth the time and money to pay to enter the Archaeological zone in Cholula because there were plaques to read and it's not worth traveling to a site just to view it from the fence on the edge of the site.

emd3

If you like ruins, don’t overlook Palenque. It’s fantastic.

If you go to Chichen Itza, the absolute only way I’ll go there (I’ve been 6 times) is to stay at the hotel directly adjacent to the ruins. You can get into Chichen Itza two hrs early before the hoards, through a gate btwn the hotel and ruins if you stay there. Very worth it.

And don’t miss Coba.