Your experience at St. Pancras station in London / on Eurostar?
Feb 29th, 2008, 01:29 AM
#21
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NeoPatrick, I'm just curious. If it's easy for you to take the RER from CDG to your door, why is a taxi the only easy and logical way to travel from the Gare du Nord? The RER that goes to CDG is the same that goes through the Gare du Nord, after all.
For me, the calculation is reversed. I have an easy bus ride to the Gare du Nord, but since I live near the periph on the north side it only takes 20-30 min by taxi to get to CDG instead of having to budget about 1.5 hours to do it by public transportation.
For me, the calculation is reversed. I have an easy bus ride to the Gare du Nord, but since I live near the periph on the north side it only takes 20-30 min by taxi to get to CDG instead of having to budget about 1.5 hours to do it by public transportation.
Feb 29th, 2008, 02:47 AM
#22
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St Pancras is a medium-term project, not a one-off opening. Between now and 2012 there are a number of additions planned to come in different phases (adding high-speed commuter trains to Kent, adding new Tube access near the domestic high-speed platforms, the opening of the hotel and Javelin trains to the Olympics site). And the current phase isn't totally finished, since there are still shops and the like to fit out.
So many of the details (like PalQ's "appalling" signage) are likely to change, at least once a year
But other details are less likely to:
- Kings Cross/St Pancras is the best connected spot on the planet, with direct tube or train connections to three nearby airports which, between them, handle almost as many international passengers every day as the entire airport system of the United States. It has direct tube lines to more places in the world's greatest city than anywhere else, and together with the nearby Euston station has direct train lines to most of Britain.
- But many British love whingeing, and the insular suburbanites of SE England do it better than anyone else. So - because St Pancras is less convenient for a few suburbs in south London than Waterloo was - there's a huge mob of suburban whiners who believe the sky's fallen in. In fact, St Pancras isn't just handier for most Britons than Waterloo was: it's handier for most of central London as well. Waterloo's south of the bleedin' river, for crying out loud: how can it be handy for anyone unless they live in Wandsworth?
- However, the new station's far from perfect. Apart from the aesthetics, there's a real problem with getting onto the tube system for people arriving from the Continent not already armed with an Oystercard. The tube ticket offices opposite the Eurostar arrivals haven't got enough manned kiosks, and most passengers seem too computer illiterate (or just French) to be happy using the complicated ticket machines (and I'm not sure there are enough of them anyway). So there are long queues to get tube tickets, and I can't see where there's space to put more selling points. Actually, you can walk round the immense "landside" area of the tube station to find other ticket offices, but they're tricky to find, and there are steps which make them a pain with luggage. Every time I come through (a few times a week) the queue seems up to fifteen minutes.
- there's no all-escalator access between the Circle Line (which connects you to Paddington and therefore the Cotswolds, so is by definition the most important connection in the station) and Eurostar. Actually - unlike Waterloo - there IS a lift, but it really is very badly signed, and you actually have to get two separate lifts. It was working yesterday, but was out of action for most of the previous two weeks. Kings Cross/St Pancras tube station continues to have poor standards of accessibility for anyone who's not nimble or has cumbersome luggage. Not remotely as awful as the disgraceful standards of accessibilty New Yorkers tolerate on their subway. But not what you'd expect from the main tube station in a civilised city.
- the refurbished St Pancras station is still a local tourist attraction in its own right, and it was never built to handle serious volumes of passengers. So although it - ie the 19th century bit that Eurostar uses - has astonishingly few trains (rarely more than a couple of departures an hour) it always seems amazingly crowded. This might explain why it never seems possibe to get a seat in the world's biggest champagne bar
- Shamingly, unlike the Gare de Lyon or Grand Central, there isn't a decent restaurant in the station, and there are few nearby. In fact there are none within half a mile, unless you count Addis in Caledonian Rd, which serves decent Ethiopian food, though often with attitude. The Drummond St Indians are just too far away for a comfortable walk. Eat beforehand.
- BUT, the British Library gallery next door to St Pancras is by several million miles the finest museum next to a major railway station anywhere in the universe (and the Library's Prue Leith-run caffs are just as good as the overpriced places in the station). If you've got time to kill and the security queues don't look too long, kill it in the British Library. Or the new, nearby, Wellcome Collection.
So many of the details (like PalQ's "appalling" signage) are likely to change, at least once a year
But other details are less likely to:
- Kings Cross/St Pancras is the best connected spot on the planet, with direct tube or train connections to three nearby airports which, between them, handle almost as many international passengers every day as the entire airport system of the United States. It has direct tube lines to more places in the world's greatest city than anywhere else, and together with the nearby Euston station has direct train lines to most of Britain.
- But many British love whingeing, and the insular suburbanites of SE England do it better than anyone else. So - because St Pancras is less convenient for a few suburbs in south London than Waterloo was - there's a huge mob of suburban whiners who believe the sky's fallen in. In fact, St Pancras isn't just handier for most Britons than Waterloo was: it's handier for most of central London as well. Waterloo's south of the bleedin' river, for crying out loud: how can it be handy for anyone unless they live in Wandsworth?
- However, the new station's far from perfect. Apart from the aesthetics, there's a real problem with getting onto the tube system for people arriving from the Continent not already armed with an Oystercard. The tube ticket offices opposite the Eurostar arrivals haven't got enough manned kiosks, and most passengers seem too computer illiterate (or just French) to be happy using the complicated ticket machines (and I'm not sure there are enough of them anyway). So there are long queues to get tube tickets, and I can't see where there's space to put more selling points. Actually, you can walk round the immense "landside" area of the tube station to find other ticket offices, but they're tricky to find, and there are steps which make them a pain with luggage. Every time I come through (a few times a week) the queue seems up to fifteen minutes.
- there's no all-escalator access between the Circle Line (which connects you to Paddington and therefore the Cotswolds, so is by definition the most important connection in the station) and Eurostar. Actually - unlike Waterloo - there IS a lift, but it really is very badly signed, and you actually have to get two separate lifts. It was working yesterday, but was out of action for most of the previous two weeks. Kings Cross/St Pancras tube station continues to have poor standards of accessibility for anyone who's not nimble or has cumbersome luggage. Not remotely as awful as the disgraceful standards of accessibilty New Yorkers tolerate on their subway. But not what you'd expect from the main tube station in a civilised city.
- the refurbished St Pancras station is still a local tourist attraction in its own right, and it was never built to handle serious volumes of passengers. So although it - ie the 19th century bit that Eurostar uses - has astonishingly few trains (rarely more than a couple of departures an hour) it always seems amazingly crowded. This might explain why it never seems possibe to get a seat in the world's biggest champagne bar
- Shamingly, unlike the Gare de Lyon or Grand Central, there isn't a decent restaurant in the station, and there are few nearby. In fact there are none within half a mile, unless you count Addis in Caledonian Rd, which serves decent Ethiopian food, though often with attitude. The Drummond St Indians are just too far away for a comfortable walk. Eat beforehand.
- BUT, the British Library gallery next door to St Pancras is by several million miles the finest museum next to a major railway station anywhere in the universe (and the Library's Prue Leith-run caffs are just as good as the overpriced places in the station). If you've got time to kill and the security queues don't look too long, kill it in the British Library. Or the new, nearby, Wellcome Collection.
Feb 29th, 2008, 03:42 AM
#23
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The part of the station where folks getting off Eurostar and need directions to FCC trains appears fully finished and there is no excuse for a lack of adequate or any apparently signage pointing the way there
there is a plethora of signs for say Eurostar checked luggage that point you to the area FCC trains are in for example
there is a plethora of signs for say Eurostar checked luggage that point you to the area FCC trains are in for example
Feb 29th, 2008, 05:32 AM
#24
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FlUK neglects to tell you the elevators are miniscule and can handle at most a couple of people at a time and hope they aren't carrying much luggage.
On my most recent Eurostar trip involving St. Pancras, I ended up having to help several elderly travelers who were having difficulty with a) significant Tube delays on the lines directly serving St. Pancras/Kings Cross (meanwhile, the Bakerloo line to Waterloo was running fine) b) getting themselves and their luggage up three different sets of stairs c) fighting through the commuter hordes and d) finding their way to the Eurostar check-in area.
There were NO staff around who showed the slightest inclination of being willing or able to help these travelers who had started out being excited about their first Eurostar trip and who rapidly became stressed and anxious. One of the elevators was not working. The signage was appalling as noted above and there's NO excuse for that, how hard was it to make decent signs??!!!
St. Pancras just doesn't handle crowds that well and God help the people coming for the London Olympics if the same staff attitude I saw last month prevails.
On my most recent Eurostar trip involving St. Pancras, I ended up having to help several elderly travelers who were having difficulty with a) significant Tube delays on the lines directly serving St. Pancras/Kings Cross (meanwhile, the Bakerloo line to Waterloo was running fine) b) getting themselves and their luggage up three different sets of stairs c) fighting through the commuter hordes and d) finding their way to the Eurostar check-in area.
There were NO staff around who showed the slightest inclination of being willing or able to help these travelers who had started out being excited about their first Eurostar trip and who rapidly became stressed and anxious. One of the elevators was not working. The signage was appalling as noted above and there's NO excuse for that, how hard was it to make decent signs??!!!
St. Pancras just doesn't handle crowds that well and God help the people coming for the London Olympics if the same staff attitude I saw last month prevails.
Mar 3rd, 2008, 12:50 PM
#25
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Hi everyone!
A London & Continental Railways representative replied to the question of the signage for FCC in St. Pancras International, prompted by your comments here.
He notes that there will be more direction / guidance in the station. (Keep in mind, as other posters have mentioned here, that the station is not completely finished.)
One new aspect will be the addition of digital "Public Information Points" or PIPs. The rep said that some PIPs are up and running now and that more are being added. These interactive posts will help travelers find their way around the station and will also give other visitor info (station facilities, neighborhood info and so on).
So, let's see how these PIPs help!
A London & Continental Railways representative replied to the question of the signage for FCC in St. Pancras International, prompted by your comments here.
He notes that there will be more direction / guidance in the station. (Keep in mind, as other posters have mentioned here, that the station is not completely finished.)
One new aspect will be the addition of digital "Public Information Points" or PIPs. The rep said that some PIPs are up and running now and that more are being added. These interactive posts will help travelers find their way around the station and will also give other visitor info (station facilities, neighborhood info and so on).
So, let's see how these PIPs help!
Mar 3rd, 2008, 01:02 PM
#26
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This is a very interesting thread to me as we are arriving in London on December 23 and taking the train I hope to our hotel - and then taking the Eurostar to Brussels and then train to Brugges on the 24.
Not happy about hearing there is no heating - brrrrr...going to have to get some of those handwarmers!
Not happy about hearing there is no heating - brrrrr...going to have to get some of those handwarmers!
Mar 3rd, 2008, 01:16 PM
#27
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i know my way but i see many travellers confused in trying to get from the tube to the eurostar. the signage IS very poor with no consistent eurostar logo'd signs. you would think they would over-sign it since it is new.
all the hype about the 'glamourous' champagne bar will undoubtly leave many shaking their heads. it's a small bar with a longish row of booths. hardly glamourous and very ordinary, and yes, cold. if you did not hear the hype, you would just walk by without even taking note of it. it's also in an awkward position/location and is somewhat isolated. so the sense of cold is not entirely just the temporature.
the passenger lounge is very poorly designed. the waterloo lounge was too small to handle passenger volumes and a bit worn. this new one already looks worn and provides no more seating. the decor is very ordinary...while not a showplace, the waterloo lounge felt more comfortable (lighting, seating, colours, etc). the cheesy, very long, snaking bench at the st pancras lounge impedes flow around the lounge...if you get caught on the wrong side of it, it is a long walk.
in my first visit, i commented many times how poor the design of the place it. just doesn't work well, imo. none of it.
all the hype about the 'glamourous' champagne bar will undoubtly leave many shaking their heads. it's a small bar with a longish row of booths. hardly glamourous and very ordinary, and yes, cold. if you did not hear the hype, you would just walk by without even taking note of it. it's also in an awkward position/location and is somewhat isolated. so the sense of cold is not entirely just the temporature.
the passenger lounge is very poorly designed. the waterloo lounge was too small to handle passenger volumes and a bit worn. this new one already looks worn and provides no more seating. the decor is very ordinary...while not a showplace, the waterloo lounge felt more comfortable (lighting, seating, colours, etc). the cheesy, very long, snaking bench at the st pancras lounge impedes flow around the lounge...if you get caught on the wrong side of it, it is a long walk.
in my first visit, i commented many times how poor the design of the place it. just doesn't work well, imo. none of it.
Mar 3rd, 2008, 01:20 PM
#28
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jen...the station is far too busy for electronic PIPs to be of much use. for example, during many hours of the day, it's a battle to get between the tube and the eurostar. good, intuitive design, visual markers/signs, layout and flow is the only thing that can make it work. electronic kiosks will make no difference, IMO. let's get back to the basics and use some common sense.
Mar 3rd, 2008, 02:18 PM
#29
Oh great - the place is poorly arranged, signed and crowded -- and their answer is <i>PIPs</i>??
I can see it now - the already congested areas will be even worse w/ folks trying to figure out how these "Public Information Points" work. If the SIGNS were adequate they wouldn't need bottleneck-causing PIPs . . . . .
I can see it now - the already congested areas will be even worse w/ folks trying to figure out how these "Public Information Points" work. If the SIGNS were adequate they wouldn't need bottleneck-causing PIPs . . . . .
Mar 4th, 2008, 07:57 AM
#30
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I've done only 2 trips from St Panc (both to Paris). Three of my biggest gripes are: 1) business lounge not open (as of Jan), 2) no mobile coverage while the trains are travelling underground, 3) taxi out of St.Panc can get rerouted through big King's X projects north of the station, esp if you're heading N/NW.
Also perfectly agree with walkinarout re: departure lounges. I really wish they could have provided more seatings. On the other hand, I seemed to have better luck with getting a taxi--as opposed to frantic rush toward the taxi rank at Waterloo. I found signage as ok, though people who are not accustomed to commuter horde may be taken aback if connecting to tube during the rush hours.
Also perfectly agree with walkinarout re: departure lounges. I really wish they could have provided more seatings. On the other hand, I seemed to have better luck with getting a taxi--as opposed to frantic rush toward the taxi rank at Waterloo. I found signage as ok, though people who are not accustomed to commuter horde may be taken aback if connecting to tube during the rush hours.
Mar 5th, 2008, 07:37 AM
#33
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Thanks for your notes, everyone. Has anyone actually used the PIPs yet? I'm curious to know where they're located and how well they work for travelers new to the station. (For instance, are they easily visible, yet placed in such a way that they won't impede the crowds at peak times? Do they have a clear station floorplan or map as a starting point?)
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:20 AM
#34
One of the knock ons from the opening of st pancras is that the Bedford/Brighton line now goes through St Pancras not Kings Cross (some sub name) the effect is that when trying to book trips on www.thetrainline.com you get different ticket timetables from Nationalexpress.co.uk
Building lovely
Building lovely
Mar 7th, 2008, 10:37 AM
#35
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Re the Paris end of things, we just received a letter from Eurostar Carte Blanche services with the following advice:
The departure area at Gare du Nord is being remodeled to provide more space for check-in, passport control, and security. A fourth x-ray machine will be added. Most of the work will be completed by summer 2008 (they claim).
Although train schedules haven't changed, passengers are advised to check in 5 to 10 minutes earlier (note: that's the advice for Eurostar Carte Blanch cardholders, who have premium check-in services. Regular travelers should probably plan on checking in at least 15 minutes earlier than usual).
The departure area at Gare du Nord is being remodeled to provide more space for check-in, passport control, and security. A fourth x-ray machine will be added. Most of the work will be completed by summer 2008 (they claim).
Although train schedules haven't changed, passengers are advised to check in 5 to 10 minutes earlier (note: that's the advice for Eurostar Carte Blanch cardholders, who have premium check-in services. Regular travelers should probably plan on checking in at least 15 minutes earlier than usual).
Mar 10th, 2008, 05:41 AM
#36
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Having taken the Eurostar r/t from London to Paris recently, I thought the St. Pancras station was okay. The Eurostar itself is still tops though, so I'm happy to put up with the seedy Gare du Nord, and the space-challenged St-Pancras. Also, St-Pancras integrates poorly with the Underground -- you have to abandon your trolley cart a bit before "interfacing" with the Underground, as there's nowhere to return it.
The Underground itself is a mess, as far as accessibility is concerned. Few elevators. Lots of stairs. Leaving St. Pancras, there's an inevitable wave of wheelchairs, strollers and large suitcase-wielders, slowly, slowly struggling along, waiting for the same slow and small elevators, and so on. I'm hoping the Olympics prep will eventually deal with that. Not holding my breath.
The Underground itself is a mess, as far as accessibility is concerned. Few elevators. Lots of stairs. Leaving St. Pancras, there's an inevitable wave of wheelchairs, strollers and large suitcase-wielders, slowly, slowly struggling along, waiting for the same slow and small elevators, and so on. I'm hoping the Olympics prep will eventually deal with that. Not holding my breath.
Mar 10th, 2008, 05:48 AM
#37
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I popped in for another look over the weekend, and I can't see what's wrong with the signage.
I haven't checked all available entrances, but from the main entrance from the tube station, the overhead signs are clearly labelled for Eurostar and for UK trains.
I haven't checked all available entrances, but from the main entrance from the tube station, the overhead signs are clearly labelled for Eurostar and for UK trains.
Mar 10th, 2008, 06:07 AM
#38
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Thanks for the warnings re signage. We're travelling by Eurostar from London to Paris next month. Our teenage son and his friend will join us in Paris a few days later or at least we hope they will!
I might have to drag them to St. Pancras when we leave for Paris so they get the lie of the land. Although my son has taken the Eurostar before he's only familiar with Waterloo and I'd assumed we'd be tripping over signs at the new station!
I'll keep an eye out for PIPs!
I might have to drag them to St. Pancras when we leave for Paris so they get the lie of the land. Although my son has taken the Eurostar before he's only familiar with Waterloo and I'd assumed we'd be tripping over signs at the new station!
I'll keep an eye out for PIPs!
Mar 10th, 2008, 06:25 AM
#39
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Patrick - nevertheless i was befuddled a few weeks ago finding the FCC trains and i'm no novice traveler
perhaps the use of the term UK trains is amiguous to those not in the know - i took this as meaning mainline trains from St Pancras and not the FCC but i see your point
perhaps the use of the term UK trains is amiguous to those not in the know - i took this as meaning mainline trains from St Pancras and not the FCC but i see your point
Mar 11th, 2008, 01:00 AM
#40
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I think the problem for me (and I havent been there since Dec) was that there previously had been clear Thameslink signage...I dont think there is anything that specifies FCC now. And FCC is in a different place than the regular national rail services
