yk's London/Oxford Trip Report - 6 days of art, music, historic houses - a journey through English history
#61
Original Poster


Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,086
Likes: 0
<b>What's The Damage</b>
This is my favorite part of the trip report... figuring out how much money I wasted.
The £ fluctuated a bit while I was there. I'll generalize it to £1 = $1.6
<b>Transportation</b>
Airfare $618
Oyster PAYG £32
Oxford bus & other Train tickets £19.10
<b>Lodging</b>
$542 for 5 nights
<b>Food</b> for 6 days (includes all snacks/coffee/fruit)
£96.85 = ~£16/day
This does not include the "free" hotel breakfast I ate on Day 5.
<b>Attractions</b>
£61.85
<b>Entertainment</b>
£86 (2 operas) + £10.50 (2 programmes)
<b>Postcards/Stamps</b>
£6.65
Total = $1661 (not including any shopping I did)
If I take out the airfare = $1043 = $174/day. This is quite a bit lower than my other solo trips in the past 2 years. In comparison:
UK May 2008 solo trip: $233/day
Spain Feb 2008 solo trip: $215/day
London Sept 2007 solo trip: $250/day
Germany April 2007 solo trip: $143/day
This is my favorite part of the trip report... figuring out how much money I wasted.

The £ fluctuated a bit while I was there. I'll generalize it to £1 = $1.6
<b>Transportation</b>
Airfare $618
Oyster PAYG £32
Oxford bus & other Train tickets £19.10
<b>Lodging</b>
$542 for 5 nights
<b>Food</b> for 6 days (includes all snacks/coffee/fruit)
£96.85 = ~£16/day
This does not include the "free" hotel breakfast I ate on Day 5.
<b>Attractions</b>
£61.85
<b>Entertainment</b>
£86 (2 operas) + £10.50 (2 programmes)
<b>Postcards/Stamps</b>
£6.65
Total = $1661 (not including any shopping I did)
If I take out the airfare = $1043 = $174/day. This is quite a bit lower than my other solo trips in the past 2 years. In comparison:
UK May 2008 solo trip: $233/day
Spain Feb 2008 solo trip: $215/day
London Sept 2007 solo trip: $250/day
Germany April 2007 solo trip: $143/day
#63

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,991
Likes: 6
Yes, we contemplated Tokyo for that, but it violates the sister-imposed rule of seeing the Vermeer in its home museum! ;-) There's also a Vermeer on loan to Rome right now (from Berlin). Makes it tough to plan the next pilgrimage, no?
You did well, cost-wise. And that fish and chips place sounds really good right about now....
You did well, cost-wise. And that fish and chips place sounds really good right about now....
#66
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 897
Likes: 0
Hi yk - Really enjoyed your trip report. You and my husband would make a great match (travel-wise!) - both energizer bunnies.
I've always wondered about the William Morris Gallery and whether it would be worth seeing. My sister and I visited Kelmscott a few years ago and, as janisj says, it's really worthwhile. I was driving and I don't know if we took the garden path instead of the road, but it was very, very narrow going in. If your DH agrees to go, maybe warm him up on some bigger roads first.
You shouldn't be embarassed to say you like Foyle's War, we like it a lot, too. We actually did visit Hastings because of it and it was a treat to walk around and identify different things that had appeared in the series. (Here's a map showing some of them - http://visit1066country.com/general/..._location.aspx.)
I know some people thought Hastings was tacky, but we would certainly return there if we were ever in the area again.
Agree with you about the Imperial War Museum - I wonder if it depends on what time of year you go? We found the higher we went in the museum, the fewer children there were. Did you enjoy the 1940s house? Honest to goodness, it's an exact replica of my mother's house, down to the George Formby 78s on the phonograph to the satin bedspread in the bedroom. She was only born in 1938, but is a 1940s fanatic.
When you mentioned staying near the Gloucester Road tube station and visiting the Temple area, I wondered if you were a fan of Horace Rumplole? I think he lived at 25B Froxbury Mansions or Court or ??? on Gloucester Road.
What's your next holiday?
I've always wondered about the William Morris Gallery and whether it would be worth seeing. My sister and I visited Kelmscott a few years ago and, as janisj says, it's really worthwhile. I was driving and I don't know if we took the garden path instead of the road, but it was very, very narrow going in. If your DH agrees to go, maybe warm him up on some bigger roads first.
You shouldn't be embarassed to say you like Foyle's War, we like it a lot, too. We actually did visit Hastings because of it and it was a treat to walk around and identify different things that had appeared in the series. (Here's a map showing some of them - http://visit1066country.com/general/..._location.aspx.)
I know some people thought Hastings was tacky, but we would certainly return there if we were ever in the area again.
Agree with you about the Imperial War Museum - I wonder if it depends on what time of year you go? We found the higher we went in the museum, the fewer children there were. Did you enjoy the 1940s house? Honest to goodness, it's an exact replica of my mother's house, down to the George Formby 78s on the phonograph to the satin bedspread in the bedroom. She was only born in 1938, but is a 1940s fanatic.
When you mentioned staying near the Gloucester Road tube station and visiting the Temple area, I wondered if you were a fan of Horace Rumplole? I think he lived at 25B Froxbury Mansions or Court or ??? on Gloucester Road.
What's your next holiday?
#67
Original Poster


Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,086
Likes: 0
Cathinjoetown - it was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek statement I made, hence the
after the sentence. Given the amount of money I had lost** in my investments/retirement, at least I got something out of this $1661!
( ** not truly "lost" unless I sell my investments)
amyb- you and your sister are too idealistic for me. I don't really care where I see it, as long as I get to see it.
rickmav - I really enjoyed William Morris Gallery, but I didn't know what to expect, and I'm a real Philistine when it comes to the Arts & Crafts Mvt as I didn't know anything about it until a few weeks before my trip when I started to read about it. But if you had already been to Kelmscott, I wonder if you might find MW Gallery a bit of a let down? It is organized as a gallery/museum, rather than a lived-in house.
The 1940 House is "fancier" than I had expected. I think it reflects more of an upper-class family home? There were kids running around (and up/down the stairs) so it was a bit difficult to enjoy it. I was surprised to see the cage/bunker thingie inside the house, but it says at least 1 million of these were sold during the war.
Never watched Rumpole, though I believe lots of filming were done in one of the Inns of Court.
Next holiday? None right now except to CT to visit my in-laws over Thanksgiving. I guess that doesn't really qualify as a real holiday, does it? I may get tempted if there are fare sales, but honestly, going to Europe during winter is not ideal, as I dislike cold weather.
I know for sure I'll be heading to NYC in mid-March. I just bought nosebleed tickets to see Juan Diego Florez sing in La Sonnambula at the Met in March.
My husband agrees to come along, but I bet a trip to NYC will be way less than $1661! (We'll take el cheapo Megabus to NYC, and we should be able to stay with my friends in Manhattan for free.)
after the sentence. Given the amount of money I had lost** in my investments/retirement, at least I got something out of this $1661!( ** not truly "lost" unless I sell my investments)
amyb- you and your sister are too idealistic for me. I don't really care where I see it, as long as I get to see it.
rickmav - I really enjoyed William Morris Gallery, but I didn't know what to expect, and I'm a real Philistine when it comes to the Arts & Crafts Mvt as I didn't know anything about it until a few weeks before my trip when I started to read about it. But if you had already been to Kelmscott, I wonder if you might find MW Gallery a bit of a let down? It is organized as a gallery/museum, rather than a lived-in house.
The 1940 House is "fancier" than I had expected. I think it reflects more of an upper-class family home? There were kids running around (and up/down the stairs) so it was a bit difficult to enjoy it. I was surprised to see the cage/bunker thingie inside the house, but it says at least 1 million of these were sold during the war.
Never watched Rumpole, though I believe lots of filming were done in one of the Inns of Court.
Next holiday? None right now except to CT to visit my in-laws over Thanksgiving. I guess that doesn't really qualify as a real holiday, does it? I may get tempted if there are fare sales, but honestly, going to Europe during winter is not ideal, as I dislike cold weather.
I know for sure I'll be heading to NYC in mid-March. I just bought nosebleed tickets to see Juan Diego Florez sing in La Sonnambula at the Met in March.
My husband agrees to come along, but I bet a trip to NYC will be way less than $1661! (We'll take el cheapo Megabus to NYC, and we should be able to stay with my friends in Manhattan for free.)
#68
Original Poster


Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,086
Likes: 0
<b>Photo link</b>
I apologize that these photos seem to be on the small side... I picked the "medium" dimensions when I uploaded them. If you have any questions for a specific photo, or if you want to see a bigger version, just let me know and I can upload it using a larger dimension.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/5hcluu
Enjoy!
I apologize that these photos seem to be on the small side... I picked the "medium" dimensions when I uploaded them. If you have any questions for a specific photo, or if you want to see a bigger version, just let me know and I can upload it using a larger dimension.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/5hcluu
Enjoy!
#69
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
That's great about the autographs and photos of Juan Diego Flores. Makes up for missing foxy what's-his-name 
It's amazing that you can go out and do so much not only on your arrival day, but on your departure day as well. So focused and organized! I'm going to try to learn from your example.
Yay, photos! I'm off to have a look.

It's amazing that you can go out and do so much not only on your arrival day, but on your departure day as well. So focused and organized! I'm going to try to learn from your example.
Yay, photos! I'm off to have a look.
#70
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Meant to say that anyone interested in the Arts & Craft Movement might like to visit Holy Trinity Sloan Square.
(something seems to be going wonky with tinyurl so I won't post a link, but it's easy enough to google)
Here's a quote from the website:
"The former Poet Laureate Sir John Betjeman called Holy Trinity Church the ‘Cathedral of the Arts & Crafts Movement’, and that indeed is what it is, containing treasures by William Morris and Edward Burne-Jones among many others"
I was hoping to visit the church in October but didn't make it.
(something seems to be going wonky with tinyurl so I won't post a link, but it's easy enough to google)
Here's a quote from the website:
"The former Poet Laureate Sir John Betjeman called Holy Trinity Church the ‘Cathedral of the Arts & Crafts Movement’, and that indeed is what it is, containing treasures by William Morris and Edward Burne-Jones among many others"
I was hoping to visit the church in October but didn't make it.
#71



Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 75,059
Likes: 50
#74
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,652
Likes: 0
yk,
I've been frustrated trying to choose what to leave out from my Paris itinerary, but your report shows that, with good planning, maybe I won't have to cut out so much afterall. You're right-- it's easier to do more on a solo trip.
Thanks for mentioning the Met's La Sonnambula with JDF too. Hadn't noticed him on the schedule. (Sad how I used to be so much more aware of NYC events when coming as a tourist!) How about a GTG at the opera?
I've been frustrated trying to choose what to leave out from my Paris itinerary, but your report shows that, with good planning, maybe I won't have to cut out so much afterall. You're right-- it's easier to do more on a solo trip.
Thanks for mentioning the Met's La Sonnambula with JDF too. Hadn't noticed him on the schedule. (Sad how I used to be so much more aware of NYC events when coming as a tourist!) How about a GTG at the opera?
#75

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,259
Likes: 0
yk -- The Finale Day was just as splendid as the previous ones ... and I wanted to add something to your visit to the Temples. About 10 years ago I went to all the Inns of Court -- and particularly wanted to see the Middle Temple Hall ... since it has the famous 30 foot long Head Table (which Elizabeth I donated to the Temple, floating a huge long down the Thames from Hampton Court). Also it has that huuuuge ceilling high carved wooden screen separating entry from tables.
It was supposed to be open from 2-4, but much bustle inside, and a sign "closed today." I asked an elderly functionary (they all seemed elderly) what was going on. He said, sorry ma'am but Prince Phillip is hosting a dinner here tonight, we're setting up, so it's closed, sorry.
THen, dear reader, I lied. I made a "woe" face and said oh, this is the whole point of my trip, and we leave tomorrow (that part was true, and I don't think we'll ever get back here. He softened and said, I can take you around briefly. We walked all thru, amid waiters, saw the Queen's high table, the gorgeous screen.( In WW II, the shock wave of an e-bomb shattered it into 25,000 pieces. Volunteers spent 3 full years at the world's largest jigsaw puzzle, putting it back together exactly ... and one would never know!
Our guide said that students still were required to take dinner there nightly, hence "benchers of the Inner Temple". I saw that the long tables had elegant chairs and said, at least now they have comfortable seating. He said o no, the benches will be replaced after this special event. I said, why not have chairs? He was shocked! Wouldn't do at all, ma'am! WHen you let go of tradition, you endanger everything! After that, it was not a surprise to learn that he lived in quarters inside the Temple enclave, and had brought up 3 children there.
It was supposed to be open from 2-4, but much bustle inside, and a sign "closed today." I asked an elderly functionary (they all seemed elderly) what was going on. He said, sorry ma'am but Prince Phillip is hosting a dinner here tonight, we're setting up, so it's closed, sorry.
THen, dear reader, I lied. I made a "woe" face and said oh, this is the whole point of my trip, and we leave tomorrow (that part was true, and I don't think we'll ever get back here. He softened and said, I can take you around briefly. We walked all thru, amid waiters, saw the Queen's high table, the gorgeous screen.( In WW II, the shock wave of an e-bomb shattered it into 25,000 pieces. Volunteers spent 3 full years at the world's largest jigsaw puzzle, putting it back together exactly ... and one would never know!
Our guide said that students still were required to take dinner there nightly, hence "benchers of the Inner Temple". I saw that the long tables had elegant chairs and said, at least now they have comfortable seating. He said o no, the benches will be replaced after this special event. I said, why not have chairs? He was shocked! Wouldn't do at all, ma'am! WHen you let go of tradition, you endanger everything! After that, it was not a surprise to learn that he lived in quarters inside the Temple enclave, and had brought up 3 children there.
#76
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 949
Likes: 0
yk,
Thanks for posting the rest of your report. I agree that you really do make the most of your arrival/dep. days - good suggestions that I need to keep in mind.
If I didn't love staying in apts. so much, I would really love using Priceline for London - everyone always seems to get great deals.
Thanks for putting up your photos - I can finally put a name to the dining room I loved at the V&A. Loved all your photos of the fall colors on trees, and your night photos were very lovely as well.
Thanks for posting the rest of your report. I agree that you really do make the most of your arrival/dep. days - good suggestions that I need to keep in mind.
If I didn't love staying in apts. so much, I would really love using Priceline for London - everyone always seems to get great deals.
Thanks for putting up your photos - I can finally put a name to the dining room I loved at the V&A. Loved all your photos of the fall colors on trees, and your night photos were very lovely as well.
#79
Original Poster


Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,086
Likes: 0
Re: <b>My itin and fitting it all in</b>
As I have alluded to in my opening post, I spent a lot of time planning and finetuning my itinerary before the trip to make this possible. There are a number of key elements:
1) When I'm on a solo trip, it's not a "vacation" to me. I travel to a place to see as much as I can, rather than to sit in coffee shops. This is a key concept to keep myself moving. I slow down a little when I travel with my husband or my parents, but they do a good job keeping up with me usually. A few years ago, a friend of mine commented that my itinerary looks more like a military campaign than a vacation.
2) Majority of the venues I visited are on the small side, so they can be seen within 60-90 minutes, unless other places like British Museum or St Paul's. As such, I can fit more places in each day. For larger museums, I focus on 1-2 sections rather than "conquer" the whole place on one visit.
3) I try to take advantage of late openings of museums to maximize sightseeing time. Granted, I prefer visiting museums in the morning when my head is clear, but I can tolerate museums in the evening if I have an afternoon nap (as in the case of my Oxford day/Tate Modern).
4) It is key to make sure I double (and triple) check the opening days and times of places. Nothing is more wasteful than going to a museum to find that it's closed.
5) I also investigated in detail on "how to get there" beforehand, esp on this trip with outlying places in Bexleyheath and Walthamstow. I wrote down train schedules, bus #s, printed out walking maps. All these helps in streamlining my visits. I also used tfl to calculate how long it will take to travel from A to B.
6) ** Most Important ** I made sure I checked TFL's and train companies' websites for any planned maintainence work (or closed stations) during my visit. Eg. Theorectically, I could take a train from Charing Cross to Bexleyheath (w/change in London Bridge), but it turns out the trains weren't leaving from Charing Cross on the Sunday I had to travel. If I hadn't known about this in advance, I would have shown up in Charing Cross for the train. And by the time I figured out I needed to go to London Bridge, most likely I would have missed my intended train and hence my pre-booked tour at Red House.
7) Once I have a basic itinerary, I research on food options in the vicinity. I usually have a few places in mind and know exactly where they are with their addresses (and cross streets) written down. I made so many blunders in the past when I thought I knew where a restaurant was, but I actually didn't have an actual address and wasted lots of time finding it.
As they say, planning is half the fun. This is definitely true for me.
Actually, there were a few places there were on my itin which I had to skip due to lack of time: Chelsea Physic Garden, Magdalen College in Oxford, Hunterian Museum.
--------------------------------
Apres_Londee - NOW I remember that thread you started about the church in Sloane Sq! I think you only asked about the opening times but never mentioned why you wanted to go there. At the time, I was assuming perhaps you're a very religious person.
travelerjan - THANK YOU for sharing your story! You know, I had thought about just walking in and ignoring the huge sign that says "CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC" but then I thought, if I were stopped, what was I supposed to say to explain myself? I couldn't say that I don't understand English! I didn't know the Hall is open (to the public) in the afternoon, as I was there before lunchtime. It is open for lunch for students.
http://www.middletemple.org.uk/Inn/H...mple_Hall.html
Anna - I'm glad you enjoyed the photos.
bilboburgler - Thanks for your input on my Oxford thread. Too bad I didn't make it to Loch Fyne, the fish restaurant.
MademoiselleFifi - Oh! I'd love a GTG with you! Our tickets are for the March 14th Saturday evening performance. I might get into the city a few days earlier... Just saw that Rusalka will be on during that time with Renee Fleming. Why don't you drop me an email and we can plan it as the date gets closer. You can reach me at yk fodors at hotmail (no space between my screen name and fodors).
As I have alluded to in my opening post, I spent a lot of time planning and finetuning my itinerary before the trip to make this possible. There are a number of key elements:
1) When I'm on a solo trip, it's not a "vacation" to me. I travel to a place to see as much as I can, rather than to sit in coffee shops. This is a key concept to keep myself moving. I slow down a little when I travel with my husband or my parents, but they do a good job keeping up with me usually. A few years ago, a friend of mine commented that my itinerary looks more like a military campaign than a vacation.
2) Majority of the venues I visited are on the small side, so they can be seen within 60-90 minutes, unless other places like British Museum or St Paul's. As such, I can fit more places in each day. For larger museums, I focus on 1-2 sections rather than "conquer" the whole place on one visit.
3) I try to take advantage of late openings of museums to maximize sightseeing time. Granted, I prefer visiting museums in the morning when my head is clear, but I can tolerate museums in the evening if I have an afternoon nap (as in the case of my Oxford day/Tate Modern).
4) It is key to make sure I double (and triple) check the opening days and times of places. Nothing is more wasteful than going to a museum to find that it's closed.
5) I also investigated in detail on "how to get there" beforehand, esp on this trip with outlying places in Bexleyheath and Walthamstow. I wrote down train schedules, bus #s, printed out walking maps. All these helps in streamlining my visits. I also used tfl to calculate how long it will take to travel from A to B.
6) ** Most Important ** I made sure I checked TFL's and train companies' websites for any planned maintainence work (or closed stations) during my visit. Eg. Theorectically, I could take a train from Charing Cross to Bexleyheath (w/change in London Bridge), but it turns out the trains weren't leaving from Charing Cross on the Sunday I had to travel. If I hadn't known about this in advance, I would have shown up in Charing Cross for the train. And by the time I figured out I needed to go to London Bridge, most likely I would have missed my intended train and hence my pre-booked tour at Red House.
7) Once I have a basic itinerary, I research on food options in the vicinity. I usually have a few places in mind and know exactly where they are with their addresses (and cross streets) written down. I made so many blunders in the past when I thought I knew where a restaurant was, but I actually didn't have an actual address and wasted lots of time finding it.
As they say, planning is half the fun. This is definitely true for me.
Actually, there were a few places there were on my itin which I had to skip due to lack of time: Chelsea Physic Garden, Magdalen College in Oxford, Hunterian Museum.
--------------------------------
Apres_Londee - NOW I remember that thread you started about the church in Sloane Sq! I think you only asked about the opening times but never mentioned why you wanted to go there. At the time, I was assuming perhaps you're a very religious person.

travelerjan - THANK YOU for sharing your story! You know, I had thought about just walking in and ignoring the huge sign that says "CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC" but then I thought, if I were stopped, what was I supposed to say to explain myself? I couldn't say that I don't understand English! I didn't know the Hall is open (to the public) in the afternoon, as I was there before lunchtime. It is open for lunch for students.
http://www.middletemple.org.uk/Inn/H...mple_Hall.html
Anna - I'm glad you enjoyed the photos.
bilboburgler - Thanks for your input on my Oxford thread. Too bad I didn't make it to Loch Fyne, the fish restaurant.
MademoiselleFifi - Oh! I'd love a GTG with you! Our tickets are for the March 14th Saturday evening performance. I might get into the city a few days earlier... Just saw that Rusalka will be on during that time with Renee Fleming. Why don't you drop me an email and we can plan it as the date gets closer. You can reach me at yk fodors at hotmail (no space between my screen name and fodors).
#80
Original Poster


Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,086
Likes: 0
<b>Rothko and Tate</b>
For those of you interested in Rothko, you may also be interested in these 2 recent news bits.
#1 <u>Tate 'lost out' on Rothko works</u>
<i>The Tate missed the chance to own 30 works by Mark Rothko, which would today be worth about $1bn (£630m), according to newly unearthed memoirs.</i>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...re/7711675.stm
#2 <u>Rothko art hung 'wrong way round' in exhibition</u>
http://tinyurl.com/5al6h8 (news article from The Telegraph)
and
<u>Which Way Up?</u>
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/ne...othko_nh.shtml
with a 2 1/2 min radio interview
For those of you interested in Rothko, you may also be interested in these 2 recent news bits.
#1 <u>Tate 'lost out' on Rothko works</u>
<i>The Tate missed the chance to own 30 works by Mark Rothko, which would today be worth about $1bn (£630m), according to newly unearthed memoirs.</i>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...re/7711675.stm
#2 <u>Rothko art hung 'wrong way round' in exhibition</u>
http://tinyurl.com/5al6h8 (news article from The Telegraph)
and
<u>Which Way Up?</u>
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/ne...othko_nh.shtml
with a 2 1/2 min radio interview




