"It will, of course, fall mostly on deaf ears particularly those who have a friend or family member who meets the negative stereotype and immediately becomes emblematic of an entire nation."

Amen to that!

BTilke, Be careful with the gratuitous use of "amen." It will lead to the obvious conclusion that all American expats are bible thumpers...

"Schuler, my niece walks to school, plays with her friends outside for hours, walks to most of her activities, her school is fantastic, and her parents are well acquainted with the parents of her friends. So the life you have described has NOT been phased out, not where she lives and not in many other places as well. "

"It will, of course, fall mostly on deaf ears particularly those who have a friend or family member who meets the negative stereotype and immediately becomes emblematic of an entire nation.

"Amen to that!"

Now what am I supposed to believe?

"Nor does it mean that the average American has any contact with gun wielding people other than law enforcement personnel."

Oh yes they do.

The minute you arrive in the US (well, actually about two hours after in most cases, but let's not go into that), you're confronted by a gun-toting immigration official. Go into a Wal-Mart, and the security staff carry guns.

OK, that's what you meant by law-enforcing personnel. But if you come from a country where not even the police normally need weapons, it's a shock.

And don't convince yourself that "Gun crime is not present to any noticeable degree in most places in the US". I was once responsible for the running of a chain of shops in most of the world's affluent countries. Gun crime was a recurrent concern for every single US employee. Outside the US, only in Soweto and Northern Ireland at the height of the troubles was the obsession matched.

If you believe gun crime doesn't exist in most of the US - or is all about minorities killing their neighbours - talk to your local liquor store. Or ask your 7-Eleven franchisee what those height measurers are doing around his doorway.

Nope!

Travelled lots-everywhere in the world. Other places are very nice to visit but the west coast of Canada is about as good as it gets in every respect!

Gun -crime aside, people in other countries are not used to ordinary citizens
owning guns .
Once I opened a kitchen drawer in someone's house in Atlanta and saw their gun right there.
A friend ( a broker in the financial sector) attended a meeting in Florida and was absolutely astonished to see his
business partner carried a gun.
One understands it is legal in the US to own and purchase all kinds of fire arms, but for some of us it is still a bit unsettling to imagine living in that kind of environment.

"That evolution can be easily turned into "evil lution" means little more than when they twist a kids name in an attempt to make fun of them"


Bulling exists in all schools, but it would be very hard to find a child in Denmark who is bullied because his parent teaches evolution.
Maybe in Iran ?

"If you believe gun crime doesn't exist in most of the US - or is all about minorities killing their neighbours - talk to your local liquor store. Or ask your 7-Eleven franchisee what those height measurers are doing around his doorway."

I don't have to go back to the US for that! I can talk to the people at my local British Blockbusters, Threshers, and Co-Op--all were robbed AT GUNPOINT in the last two years. The local Co-op now closes an hour earlier than it used to because of crime problems and the store now has security staff.

Meanwhile, the staff at the grocery store and liquor store in the PA town where I grew up have NEVER had a gun crime problem.

"Go into a Wal-Mart, and the security staff carry guns."

I was at Wal-Mart last night and I did NOT see a gun on the security guard gun.

Seems to be lots of good and bad generalizations in this thread. My family came to the US in the early to mid-1800's. I have lived all of my life in the US except for a study aboad program in college. I have traveled to 25 countries and have been to 5 continents. I prefer to put the nationalistic BS aside. What I have found in my travels is the there is good and bad in each place I have visited. I can usually find beauty in most places and things that I like and things that annoy me. When I travel, I try to be respectful of the culture and understand the differences are what makes cultures interesting. There are many things I love about my country (beautiful and varied scenery, wonderful national parks and really we are a giving country when it comes down to it). There are also things I dislike (our current administration and their policies, our lack of focus on things I find important, insufficient but improving mass transit). Not to sound too idealistic -- but really -- you can make your happiness anywhere.

flanner...it's not just the security guards that carry guns in walmart, it's all the shoppers, the cashiers (cruelly made to work standing by their gun-toting managers), and even the pensioner who greets you at the door. the 16 year old kid who rounds up the shopping trolleys in the car park also carries a gun but because they work outside where it is more dangerous, they carry machine guns and RPGs. the guns sold in the toy aisles are not toys. never, ever go into an american walmart if you value your safety. europeans beware and be afraid!

flanner's right, america is very backward. in our top stores like boots we have ELECTRONIC height and weight machines that you can use for £0.50. and some will even give you your horoscope. the height measurers on the doors in american stores are free but they don't do weight and they are just marks on the door rather than our high-tech laser height measurers. how backward is that! and the ones in america aren't even in centimetres. as if!

It may very well be that gun-related crime in Moosecreek Idaho, or some other far flung rural outpost is relatively low, but if you look at the country wide statistics, there's absolutely no doubt that the US is way out in front of all the other wealthy, developed western nations as regards firearms related death and criminal activity.

I just do not know why people are bothering to argue this point - it's not opinion, it's fact. I think perhaps Willit is right, and the patriotism is so ingrained in US culture, that even when the figures show otherwise, people just won't accept it.

"it's not just the security guards that carry guns in walmart, it's all the shoppers, the cashiers (cruelly made to work standing by their gun-toting managers), and even the pensioner who greets you at the door. the 16 year old kid who rounds up the shopping trolleys in the car park also carries a gun but because they work outside where it is more dangerous, they carry machine guns and RPGs.""

No need to get upset. the people you mention may not have a gun in the store but I would not be too sure they don't have one at home, in the car or ( in some states) on their person.
If they don't have a gun or more efficient fire arm, how hard would it be to go to a local gun store and buy one?

i totally agree with you RM67, we europeans are not concerned enough about getting murdered in america. there is not enough discussion about the gun problem. some ignorant people talk about going to america just like they are going to greece or spain or some other safe country. it makes me sick to hear britons talk about going to florida for some 'sun' or to NYC to go 'shopping'. these stupid people need to wake up and realise that they are going to get murdered. i'm very concerned about this.

and i agree with you too danon. if they don't have a gun at work, then they probably have one in their car, and if they don't have when in the car then they have one at home, and if they don't have one at home they can buy one in the store and if the stores don't have guns, then they can fashion one out of a lead pipe. sick, sick place america is. you make such a good point. people need to be very concerned about this.

sick, sick place america is. you make such a good point. people need to be very concerned about this."


don't tell us people cannot buy guns ( in most states) with ease, and they don't do so.

It is your Costitutional right,
even the Supreme Court agrees.
This does not make America a sick , sick place - just different than many other countries.
What is so upsetting about that?

schuler said: "1/3 of my friends in the US have strong religious views and can be very judgemental as a result..."

The obvious question is, how many friends do you have in the US? :-)

<i>Bulling exists in all schools, but it would be very hard to find a child in Denmark who is bullied because his parent teaches evolution.
Maybe in Iran ?</i>

Did you read the rest of the post? Do you really think the kid is getting bullied because of his father's views on evolution? Please.

<i>we europeans are not concerned enough about getting murdered in america. there is not enough discussion about the gun problem. some ignorant people talk about going to america just like they are going to greece or spain or some other safe country. it makes me sick to hear britons talk about going to florida for some 'sun' or to NYC to go 'shopping'. these stupid people need to wake up and realise that they are going to get murdered. i'm very concerned about this.</i>

Thank you for sounding the alarm. Many would look at the statistics and see that they actually have an extremely low likelihood of ever being the victim of gun crime. But they are clearly delusional.

<i>don't tell us people cannot buy guns ( in most states) with ease, and they don't do so.</i>

And don't tell us that all of those people are buying the guns for ill intent. I grew up in a state with gun ownership rates well above the national average. Amazingly, there was a single murder detective for the entire state (I knew him personally - his job was pretty boring). But hey, make sure you watch your back next time you are in Vermont.

<i>I just do not know why people are bothering to argue this point - it's not opinion, it's fact. I think perhaps Willit is right, and the patriotism is so ingrained in US culture, that even when the figures show otherwise, people just won't accept it.</i>

It isn't patriotism. It is the ability to understand risk. And the risk of being the victim of gun crime is extremely low, even in the US.

walkinaround, The electronic machines mustn't work well because they always seem to show less than half the weight. And the marks on the doors tell you how many guns we keep. Nothing to do with heights. ;)

Schuler, Religious friends who are judgemental? I have many who are judgemental and not at all religious. I mean what's up with that?!

:)

&quot;I just do not know why people are bothering to argue this point - it's not opinion, it's fact. I think perhaps Willit is right, and the patriotism is so ingrained in US culture, that even when the figures show otherwise, people just won't accept it.&quot;

I'm not arguing about statistics. I think it's a bad thing that there are more gun related deaths in the US than in other countries. A very bad thing indeed. I think we should do something about it.

But the fact remains that in the day to day experience of most people in the US, guns are not a factor. Clearly guns are a much greater presence in the minds of people reading the headlines and the statistics from abroad than they are in the minds and lives of most Americans.

One death however is one too many. And many people in the US believe that and are in favor of much stricter gun control than exists in most states. The US gun lobby would have me believe that I am unpatriotic for having that opinion. RM67 would have me believe that I am patriotic just for stating the facts of my experience. What on earth does this have to do with patriotism?