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<i>Yes, Americans are generous people, by and large. But the most generous in the world? What proof is there for such a claim?</i>
Such claims are based upon measuring private + public giving. The US easily outpaces other countries in private giving. The numbers here aren't perfect - private giving is a % of GDP, while state aid is % of GNI, and the years are not the same, but I would think the claim is, at least, plausible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...able_countries |
"Equality of opportunity" is an ideological fantasy designed to make the believer feel better about themselves and squash any lurking guilt they may feel about the comfort and security of their own lives."
Neil_ Oz, I agree with you. I doubt that there is even any guilt. Just empty rhetoric. "Cutting taxes" has always been the mantra of most American politicians. One can easily read the message between the lines. |
About Australia: I'm somewhat scared whenever I go there. ;-). One of the few places that were so much like home, yet totally different. Without the endless masses of people but with parties, that felt SO much like they took place somewhere in suburban Munich on a warm summers day.
So relaxed and concentrating on the important stuff, maybe we could be like that every day, if just the weather would be better? Whatever, a place where you can buy "Weihenstephaner White Beer" always has my sympathy. ;-). |
travelgourmet, I certainly recognise Americans' admirable level private giving and tradition of corporate philanthropy. I would though include the way a country treats its own most vulnerable citizens in my definition of "generosity".
America is an excellent country in which to be rich, or even middle-class, but seems to treat its poorest inhabitants more harshly than other Western nations. This is oddly at variance with the kindness and generosity I've seen in ordinary Americans. It seems linked to a prevailing view among many that, as discussed above, it's their own fault if they're poor. I've heard it said that this attitude partly stems from America's evangelistic religious heritage, with its emphasis on individual salvation rather than the "social gospel", but my theology isn't up to going too far down that road. |
I don't think it's the result of evangelism: the theology of those movements is pretty much the same as the evangelical movements in eastern Europe and among Britain's Caribbean population - who all share the socialising philosophies of Western Europe and the settler Commonwealth.
The real reason for the social selfishness of America's public policy is the cult of American exceptionalism. Nineteenth century Europe was just as committed to the "it's their own fault" theory as modern America - but social initiatives in Bismark's Germany and in New Zealand clearly worked and were widely publicised. They then got gradually and piecemeal copied during the first half of the 20th century throughout whichever bits of Western Europe were democratic, and in Australia, New Zealand and Canada. The copying, above all, came from the open-ness of those societies to ideas from other societies. None - once they got democratic - had absurd "our country's perfect" propaganda poured into them from birth. Many (I'd say practically all, but it'll only upset them) Americans, lumbered with the brainwashing they've all been through, cannot accept the "if it works in Australia, let's see if it works here" philosophy that underlies practically all public policy in Western Europe and the settler Commonwealth. "It can't be right if Americans haven't invented it" is the inevitable consequence of every single child starting every single schoolday - just like the North Koreans - forced to chant absurd nationalistic slogans. |
>Many (I'd say practically all, but it'll only upset them) Americans, lumbered with the brainwashing they've all been through, cannot accept the "if it works in Australia, let's see if it works here" philosophy
Flanneruk, this is not the experience I have made with individual americans. Most I know will readily agree with you if you say "it works in Australia/France/South Korea, it will work in USA too if you try) - but immediately tell you how this or that political direction will definitely prevent the implementation. Many Americans I know are individually open to new ideas from abroad but preventatively surrender to vocal minorities in their country without firing a single (figurative) shot. I always wonder where the famous "can do" attitude has gone. |
<i>America is an excellent country in which to be rich, or even middle-class, but seems to treat its poorest inhabitants more harshly than other Western nations.</i>
I think this exaggerates both the plight of the poor in the US and the living conditions of the poor in much of the other Western nations. Indeed, absolute poverty rates are similar or higher than the US in Australia and Italy, for example, even after all wealth transfers are accounted for. France, as well, is not that much better than the US. And many of the European countries, including France, Italy, the Netherlands, the Scandinavian countries, and Belgium, have pre-transfer poverty rates significantly higher than the US (hence claims that the US is more upwardly mobile). Council estates in the UK or the suburban ghettos of Paris are as grim as South Central Los Angeles. And the aboriginal tribes of Australia suffer from the same poverty, isolation, and social problems that plague Native American tribes. Being poor is rough; don't kid yourself into thinking that the poor are significantly better off in Europe over America. <i>Many Americans I know are individually open to new ideas from abroad...</i> I think you are confusing the realization that the European systems have their own, significant costs and compromises, with a resistance to foreign ideas. Were I to look for change, it wouldn't be toward a model that has the bureacracy, inefficencies, and huge public committments of the larger European systems. There are more market-based models that would be more appropriate. A system like that instituted in Massachusetts is much better suited to the American situation than a statist model like the French have. <i>The real reason for the social selfishness of America's public policy is the cult of American exceptionalism.</i> Bah! The real reason is the relative condition of the economies of Europe and the US, following WWII. Prior to the war, the systems in the US and Europe were not that dissimilar. It was the aftermath of WWII, with the large-scale disruptions and devastation in Europe that led the state, as one of the few large and stable actors, to adopt the more comprehensive systems seen in Europe today. Simply put, there were no other actors capable of providing for the welfare of the citizens. The US, without the burden of rebuilding, and with many large companies that provided security and cradle-to-the-grave protection, was simply in a different place, and a statist system was not needed. |
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Just came back from 3 weeks in the US.
Positives: Americans are still wonderful, kind and helpful. Shopping is still one big candy shop. My kids said it was easier to shop in Switzerland because the selection isn't so big and confusing. Negatives: Traffic. I'm just not used to it. The congestion on I5 between Seattle and Olympia are daily (weekends too) and last for 3+ hours at a time. Local news: I watched 20 minutes of Seattle news. 6 murders, 1 machete attack, a pedophile babysitter and 3 small airplane crashes. No good news at all. Utterly depressing. Schools: The US needs to take the pressure off less academic students to attend universities. More pride needs to be put into trade schools and apprenticeships. Home schooling: Not enough quality checking on home-schooled kids. Home schooling basically does not exist in Switzerland. Religion and sports: Both play a larger role in the daily life of Americans than of Europeans. The amount of time and money put into both is amazing. Gambling: Those Native Americans must be billionaires by now. Gambling isn't as important in Europe. Vacation-time used: Why do so many Americans not use their accrued vacation time? Almost unheard of in Switzerland. Fast food: It is still cheap. My husband thinks it's too cheap which is why people overeat on it. Fast food is MUCH more expensive in Switzerland, which is why many Swiss would rather visit the (often cheaper) cafeteria-style restaurants in Manor, Migros and Coop. Starbucks: What is it with that chain? You rarely find one Starbucks by itself. It usually has two other Starbucks competing on the same block. Just wanted to share a few impressions. |
A few more impressions:
Donations: Everyone wants a donation for something. The local bank was asking for donations (cancer), the grocery store, Starbucks, the county fair booths, etc. I was overwhelmed at first. High school employees: A bit daunting at first. I was at a few entertainment places where most of the employees were 16. Many couldn't answer basic questions or were not concentrating on their job. Most employees are 18+ in Switzerland. Although I realize US teenagers need money and want to gain experience, many aren't well-trained or perhaps still a bit immature to be working. |
In reply to Schuler...thanks for a great laughable report! Your generalizations are really funny and show a total lack of knowledge of America...again LOL!!!
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Schuler wrote---Schools: The US needs to take the pressure off less academic students to attend universities. More pride needs to be put into trade schools and apprenticeships.
Amen to that! Herein lies the root of most of the US's education problems. |
I would move to America if I had the chance. I love it there. Maybe holidays are different to actually living there and the idea might lose its gloss over time - but I can't actually see that it's all that much different to the UK, except that (in some parts!) the weather is better, the streets cleaner, the countryside more beautiful and the people friendlier and more polite. I feel more at home in the US than I do in, say, France (which I also love). I've spent 3 long vacations over there (totally around 3 months) and have been from east to west and have only ever felt unsafe once and that was in LA (and probably then I was imagining it!)
If I had a choice, I wouldn't want to live in the east (much as I enjoy visiting NYC and Chicago) but the west somewhere. Ideally Palm Springs (yes, despite the heat!) or Seattle - or Springdale, Utah! But I won't be moving from this country as we have ties here and they're not likely to allow immigration to a couple in their later years with an at-home working son! If I were alone though, and had plenty of money, I wouldn't hesitate. |
Great topic!
In response - The US is many, many times the area and has many times the population of any European country. It's interesting to have people compare a small country's issues with ours. We have every type of climate and topography here - thousands of miles of coastline, mountains, deserts, plains. Wehave great cities, slums, charming small towns, large industrial areas, agricultural areas. We have an nparalled national park system. We have many religious groups, from fundamentalist (Christian, Jewish and Muslim) to New Age. We have many Buddhists and Hindus! Our penal institutions recognize the traditions of Wiccans, for heavens sake! So, we are as tolerant and intolerant as anyone else. Every nation in the world has something to be ashamed of in its history, but hopefully more to be proud of. Health care - thankfully, it has been our philosophy that health care should not be paid for by taxes. Most other countries - especially European - send their finest physicians to do research in the US where they work with the finest medical minds and equipment. There is way too much violence in some of our cities - waaaay too much. There are more gang-related murders per year than war-related casualties. But like Paris, Rome, etc., this violence is pretty much contained to small areas. To the socialists/communists who posted, this definitely is not the place for you, even though there are many prominent and successful socialists living and working here. For instance, a few years ago the head of the American Library Association was the Head Librarian at the Marxist/Leninist Library. There are socialist candidates in many local and national elections. In my opinion, the best reason not to move to the U.S. is the abysmal state of public education. We put billions of dollars into the educational system but are not slipping but falling backward, and fast. Part of it is the sheer number of students - many Southern California elementary school classes have students that speak 10 or 12 different languages. That's really only part of the story, though. If we cant figure it out we'll be lost. I say all this not to convince anyone that Americas the best country in the world -- but to put some of the other comments in perspective. Mostcitizens of the world should and do love their own country. That's the nature of humans. |
- The proudness thing.
For no reason people are proud of anything possible. Like the pres. candidate said in Berlin. "I come to you as a proud american" (makes people giggle) |
SusieQQ: Which generalizations don't you agree with? By the way, I grew up in the States and left after completing my BA.
Cimbrone: Thanks for the encouragement. Things are changing a bit in Switzerland and the pressure of going to a university is increasing due to global expectations. I'm not particularly happy with this trend because it slightly dimishes Swiss pride in our skilled trade labourers. |
laurela who were the "communists/socialists who posted"?
Curious labelling........ |
OK Schuler: just about everything you said were generalizations. America is a huge country and has many differences. Here are the major points from your post which are quite warped:
shopping: not everyone lives near great shopping..although many wish they did. Traffic:...many, many places do not have traffic congestion.... Schools: we do not a national school system.there are many variations across the country...for example my county has magnet high schools that have various vocational programs home schooling: each state regulates these programs so some states have strict regulations and some don't. sports: are you really serious about this one...Europeans that I know are obsessed with their "football" religion...this is a regional attitude...not were I live...I don't even know very many people who actually go to church...again a vast generalization. gambling...where in the world are there as many casinos as in Europe...for example, there are casinos in the middle of London..none in NYC...the majority of states don't have Indian reservations. Starbucks...recently announced that they are closing many of their stores... |
SusieQQ:
I have compared my experience in Washington State with Switzerland's lifestyle. If I'm making generalizations about the "US", you are also making generalizations by using the word "Europe". My comments stem from personal experience and comments from local Washingtonians. Regarding sports, our universites in Switzerland do not have the sport facilities or fans as they do in the US. Professional "high-powered, high-earning" sports in Europe is basically limited to soccer. Not so in the US. Regarding religion: Have you been to our churches in Switzerland? You'll find them 1/3 full on Sundays masses, unlike those in the US. Shopping: You haven't been to our local store here in our village. Any Safeway would be considered huge in comparison. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on our perceptions. |
>>>>I have compared my experience in Washington State with Switzerland's lifestyle.<<<<
Then you should have said this...Seattle Washington is definitely not the "US". This posting topic was the "US" not Seattle. Stop generalizing... for example, When my young son and I visited Zurich, we were fasinated by the stores and the shopping, but because of that I wouldn't say that Europe or even Switzerland has great shopping... do you get my point? Don't generalize.....most of your issues do not exist in the rest of the country..... |
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