Well, what a shame that so few bothered to read my posts properly before responding. Walkinaround - your response was especially idiotic.

Nowhere have I said that people shouldn't visit the US or that they shouldn't choose to live there. Or that they are at risk of imminant death from gun crime if they do. In fact, higher up in the thread I'd already stated that I'd visited on several occasions and would quite happily work there for a short period.

My sole comment on guns and gun crime was that it's a bit daft to keep argueing that gun crime is not an issue when statistics plainly show that the US has a bigger problem than practically every other Western industrialised nation, and is more on a par with some developing countries - hence I agreed with an earlier comment that is it strange that some US citizens would try to argue that this particularl point isn't an issue when statistics show that in many areas, it is. Raising the not-unreasonable question of ingrained patriotism.

This is a great board, with loads of brilliant tips, and I especially love the trip reports and people's photographs, but I surely can't be the only person heartily sick of the sneery comments and rampant sacrcasm that follow any attempt at discussing a serious topic. Is there any chance of having a debate on this (or any subject for that matter) where responses aren't littered with shouty block capitals and comments like 'Duh!' , 'Moron!', 'Good Riddance!'

BTW, I don't remember the equivalent thread 'Would you move to Europe' being littered with aggressive countering of every other point made for or against the move....

I love going to Northern Ireland to visit family, however, would I move there? Probably not. I would miss the stuff I'm used to in the US like a laundrymat in a town so I don't have to do my laundry in a sink. I think that people in Europe would miss the stuff they're used to also.

However, I do take exception to the "crime" in the US. I live in a small town (4500 pop) in northern Wyoming. I leave my house open unless I'm gone overnight. I don't leave my keys in the vehicle (unlike a lot of people) but I don't have to lock it. I did worry about my daughter after I heard about a young boy being kidnapped in a town of about 300 people. So crime can and does happen anywhere. Even though the $ is down against a lot of currencies, we still get great value. When I was in NI in April, some foods were twice what they are here (milk $4, minced steak...aka hamburger $8/lb).

As far as health care, universal is great but you are paying dearly for that "privilege". Your taxes are much higher than ours are and you have to wait to get the service. I'm fortunate because my husband has health insurance through his retirement ($169/month). Yes, we do have to pay for some of the services but I think it's well worth it based on what I know of the health care system in the UK at least. My relative lives 40 miles from Belfast but can take an ambulance home from hospital since she doesn't drive. How much is this costing the system?

Sorry, as much as I would love to live overseas, the cost is not worth it.

Nikki - good point :-)

Of course I don't imagine everyone or even a majority feel the same way, and I did point out that I haven't been to the US so I'm only going on general impressions...

Really I listed my problems with moving to the US in order of importance. To me, the main reason it's not feasible because I just couldn't leave my home for somewhere so far away...

"Actually we kind of do rule the world. If we wanted it tomorrow it would be ours. It's not being ignorant, it's just the truth."


Oh my goodness! Tell me you were being sarcastic. No one could really be that grandiose!

According to a report on Fox News from May 2008, "one in eight U.S. high school biology teachers presents creationism or intelligent design in a positive light in the classroom, a new survey shows, despite a federal court's recent ban against it."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,357181,00.html

1 in 8 is many to me... (note 'many' does not mean the same as 'most').

<i>My sole comment on guns and gun crime was that it's a bit daft to keep argueing that gun crime is not an issue when statistics plainly show that the US has a bigger problem than practically every other Western industrialised nation, and is more on a par with some developing countries - hence I agreed with an earlier comment that is it strange that some US citizens would try to argue that this particularl point isn't an issue when statistics show that in many areas, it is. Raising the not-unreasonable question of ingrained patriotism.</i>

But you don't seem to be reading the responses to that post, nor the statistics that you are talking about. The point being made is that, while gun crime is more prevalent in the US than in Europe, this is not the same as saying it is prevalent enough that it is rational to base your decision to not live in the US because of it.

This is particularly true when you take into account the fact that gun crimes tend to be relatively isolated, geographically. It is the rare tourist that would ever have occasion to visit one of those neighborhoods and most any European moving to the US would not be living in one of those neighborhoods, either. Heck, looking through the lists of Boston homicides I posted above, roughly 90% of them took place in neighborhoods where I rarely/never set foot in, and I lived in Boston for the better part of 13 years. And it wasn't a case that I avoided them because of crime, but rather that there was simply nothing (shops, cultural facilities, transit hubs, etc) in those neighborhoods that would ever draw me to them.

This isn't patriotism, this is about putting in just that little extra effort to truly understand your risks.

The level of violence you are exposed to depends heavily on your choice of venue - no matter what the country.

The U.S. has Detroit and L.A. But Europe has soccer. I'd feel safer in most major U.S. cities than in any European city where a major soccer event is held.

I'm sad to hear that the poor folk of Northern Ireland are reduced to doing their washing in a sink because there are no laundrettes. At least, they have stopped bashing their undies on rocks in the river.

How remarkably smart from Shuler-- citing FOX NEWS, the most UNBIASED news reporting in the USA.....NOT!

Citing a biased source is dumber than a bag of hair, a bag of hammers, or a bag of rocks, take your pick :-D.

&gt;5 kids where killed in just one night
a Day in June 2008

&gt;5 kids where killed in just one night
a Day in June 2008
Thanks for ths chart of shame, that does't show everything.

For someone like myself living in the U.K., the question is also about how the United States compares with the other options.

Moving to Spain, France or Italy would give me a better climate, and also the ability to easily return to the U.K. to visit family or in case of emergency. Moving to Australia, New Zealand or Canada would mean a similar society to the one I am used to, with social support mechanisms.

What would be the advantages of the United States? There is some grand scenery, but I personally find the distances you have to travel to see it a disadvantage. Some of the tourist areas, like Cambria or Mendocino on the west coast, are attractive, but rather artificial.

I enjoyed visiting Boston and Seattle, and some rural towns can be appealing, but the American townscape with its slab concrete sidewalk and chain-link fencing doesn't have the variety of its European equivalent.

The coastal Southern California climate is good, but I would not want the temperatures of Texas, or the brutal winters of the mid west. Britain may be damp, but it is invariably mild.

Living in the U.S. would be attractive if I was young, healthy, and ambitious for my own prosperity rather than that of the community in which I lived. Most Americans are friendly, but their lifetsyle and relationships to one another are not what I am used to, and I think I would miss that.

There is also the joy here of having history on one's doorstep, and gentle and green countryside.

Re the issue of paid vacation time in the US--it certainly matters as to the type of profession, the size of the company, and the individual's position within the company. But I'd like to add that if employers did not have to also be in the business of paying for their employees' health care they would be able to offer more time for vacation. I didn't read every single post here, but scanning through I saw the pro-America group extolling the virtues of their health-care plans but not explaining that most of us get our insurance through our workplaces, and our employers pay huge amounts to insurance companies for the plans that we enjoy. We contribute to those plans but relatively small amounts. This arrangement has sadly caused many a small business or manufacturer to close down. Fifty years ago, the jobs that provided health care benefits were the civil-servant areas (police, fire, post office, government) and the big industries (IBM for example). And even then health-care benes were offered as perks to the people high on the career ladder, not to the people actually on the ground doing the work! Then increasingly these benefit packages were marketed by the insurance companies and lobbied for by unions, and employers found themselves having to be in the business of insurance providers. Now cracks are beginning to develop, and changes are on the (far) horizon.

I realize that IBM wasn't a good example to use..

I would not live in America long-term. I was fortunate in my youth to spend 6 months working there for 2 summers while I attended college.It was a wonderful experience. I have been to many parts of America since on vacation and like certain aspects of the country very much.I believe though that it a country for the rich and very rich and note for example that the minimum wage in Ireland,where I live now, is double that of America,every worker here gets 4 weeks vacation and paid maternity leave is 6 months.Medical costs are a fraction of those in America,although there is no hospital here to compare with the very top range there.This situation is fairly similar in the European community,except for those countries who joined recently, who have a long way to catch up. I think America is a great country if you are young,well-educated, ambitious, hard-working and healthy.Otherwise the going is pretty rough and the number of housing foreclosures there at present makes my hair stand on end.

<i>Thanks for ths chart of shame, that does't show everything.</i>

It shows that 5 kids were not murdered in one day in Boston in June 2008, which is all it was intended to do. You could at least make up &quot;facts&quot; that aren't so easily checked. Or you could, God forbid, stop making things up.

Nice try though. Thanks for playing...

Sandylan: If you look closely at the foreclosures you will find that it is a lot more complicated than people simply not earning a living wage and having to give up their homes. It's a huge, multi-layered problem that includes people whose eyes were bigger than their pocketbooks and bought a second (vacation) home that required them to take on more debt than they could afford. And re the medical insurance issue please see my prior post. I also note that a lot of the posters here have travelled to &quot;tourist&quot; areas: NYC, LA,New Orleans, etc and haven't visited the suburbs and small towns where us 'regular' people live. The quality of life in most places is average or even pretty nice.

It doesn't show the people shot that died the next day in hospital. That's all!

Well, I for one am happy to learn that so many are interested in discussing evolution. I look forward to more threads about it, and about genetics in general. And here I was thinking I was boring everyone to tears, every time I raised the subject. ;)

Look, folks, if you're happy where you are, be this the UK, the US, somewhere in Europe, or Timbuctu, that's great! On the other hand, I could do with fewer bogus claims for why someone isn't going to move. For example, I somehow doubt anyone's going to refuse to move, to, say, Vienna solely or even mainly because that city's Cardinal Schonbrun holds that neo-Darwinism is incompatible with Catholic doctrine. Or to the UK because there apparently exists some outfit called &quot;Truth in Science&quot; [sic] that is apparently dedicated to having creationism taught in British schools.

As for crime, we should remember that for all practical purposes the principal consideration is the degree of possible bodily harm that one could sustain in a given locale. On that note, may I point out that one is just as dead whether one is shot, dismembered by a bomb left in a taxi, run down by a car, or slowly suffocated by pollution-caused lung disease (Beijing, anyone?) In other words, most places carry their fair share of risks as well as of rewards, and people who are serious about relocating to just about anywhere recognize this.