"And don't tell us that all of those people are buying the guns for ill intent."

It is the ease of owning a gun in the US ( how and when people use it is their choice - no one knows their intent) that is different than in other countries.

For most American it is not an issue - they grew up in that environment , more so - majority supports it.
People from other countries often find it a bit scary ( rightly or wrongly) .
Why is that so hard to understand?

<i>People from other countries often find it a bit scary ( rightly or wrongly) .
Why is that so hard to understand?</i>

Because it is irrational. The laws of probability are not dependent upon nationality. Your risk is still so low that it should not be much of a concern for most people, regardless of where you are from.

I liken it to the posts you see from Americans about pickpockets and scam artists in Europe, which are equally silly.

yes, it may be irrational - most fears are.
The question was &quot; would you move to the US..&quot;;I am only suggesting that the ease of gun ownership in America would deter some people from other countries.
I have visited the US number of time ( only the big cities and Vermont!), and if could , would move to Manhattan in a &quot; New York minute&quot;

re: guns. I won't attempt to sort the irony from the earnest, because I can't quite tell which is which.

I live in a US metropolitan area, and have friends in suburban and rural areas. I can go for years at a time without seeing or hearing about anyone with a gun. except maybe in a locked rack at the home of my brother who hunts deer, turkey, and pheasant. I can't remember the last time I saw a handgun in person, except in the holster of a lawman.

Just don't go to the places where the kids shoot eachother, and let the paramedics clean up after removing the bodies. :D (blood is so sticky on concrete)

Anyway, that would be my stategy.

In Boston last time I was there, 5 kids where killed in just one night.

My news sources show some of Europe's capitals turning pretty violent.

Crime in Paris:

&quot;Publishing the latest crime statistics for the French capital, the National Crime Observatory reported more than 1,500 incidents of violent assault on and around the thoroughfare - a 32% rise on the previous year’s figure.

Reported thefts are up by 93% and incidents of threatening behaviour have risen by 48% - the biggest increase for any area in the city.

“The atmosphere is no longer good-natured, like it once was,” says senior policeman Guy Parent, head of the Paris antiprostitution brigade. He warns that what was once the world’s most famously elegant avenue is becoming a no-go zone, known instead for violent crime, prostitution and racketeering.&quot;


London and other Brit cities are seeing knives become the weapon of choice:

&quot;The true state of violent Britain was exposed yesterday in the Government’s own figures, which revealed there is a knife attack every four minutes...

There were nearly 130,000 attacks involving a blade last year yet that does not include offences committed by younger teenagers...

&quot;The fact that violent crime has risen by 80 per cent under Labour and the scale of knife crime on our streets, officially recorded for the first time, is a shocking indictment of Labour’s failure to tackle crime and its causes.&quot;

Try shooting someone with a knife.

Russ, the perception is that violent crime in the UK is on the increase, but it is not a perception reflected in the crime figures.

What has come to fore in the last year is fatal knife attacks on young men. There is a problem with people carrying knives.

Guns are a rarity in the UK - handguns are banned, Olympic shooters have to go and train overseas. To quote a favourite: &quot;only criminals have guns&quot;.

The stark statistics show that more people die from gunshots in an average day in the US, than in the average year in the UK. Even accounting for population sizes, the rate is between 50 and 100x greater.

I fully understand that my chances of being killed as an ordinary person, living in an ordinary town in the US are extremely remote.

Living conditions in Australia seem comparable to those in the USA, but working conditions seem better (a legislated minimum wage and four weeks paid holidays). Medical treatment seems more generally affordable, and, via the public hospital system, possibly free, albeit with too-long waiting lists. I also prefer the system of government, which places less emphasis on personalities, but that may be due to familiarity. The country also seems to have more resources than it can use, so should remain relatively prosperous in the foreseeable future. The society is law-abiding, multi-cultural and generally friendly, so I think I'll stay here rather than move to the US.

I think I phrased a little of my comments poorly - I didn't mean that I believe there is a large-scale ban on teaching evolution, but it has happened. also I believe that creationism is taught in many school science classes. Undefencible in my opinion.

also, flanner, I don't think that a generation of ignorant Americans will rise up to rule the world, because, actually, America doesn't rule the world. That's a perfect example of the sort of attitude I meant by 'word view' that would put me off moving to the US.

Actually we kind of do rule the world. If we wanted it tomorrow it would be ours. It's not being ignorant, it's just the truth.

<i>In Boston last time I was there, 5 kids where killed in just one night.</i>

And when was this, exactly? We know that it was not in 2008:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...ers_in_boston/

Nor was it 2007:

http://internet128.com/index.php/200...n-boston-2007/

Nor 2006:

http://www.universalhub.com/crime/murder2006.html

Perhaps it was before then? Regardless, that is surely some sort of amazing coincidence that you managed to be in Boston on a night that saw somewhere between 5 and 10% of the murders for the year. And all kids, too. Wow. That surely is something.

And even if we assume that this amazing coincidence is true, then I have to ask if the murders were unrelated? Were they all part of the same family? Were they killed by relatives or other people known to them? If so, then does this inform the average person's understanding of their risk of being randomly murdered?

If, instead of trying to cloud the issue by pointing to particularly gruesome events (that may or may not have occurred), we look at the murders objectively, we see that most were not random, that many involved family or acquaintances, and that most were committed in areas far removed from anywhere a tourist or even a local resident will ever set foot in. The data does not support a fear of being randomly murdered in the US, guns or no guns.

casey....


good grief. You've made my point wonderfully, thank you.

You may not agree with the way I said it but you must admit it is the truth. Do you disagree?

<i>I didn't mean that I believe there is a large-scale ban on teaching evolution, but it has happened.</i>

Not since 1968. Epperson v Arkansas has basically made it impossible to ban the teaching of evolution. It has certainly banned the teaching of creationism at the expense of evolution.

<i>also I believe that creationism is taught in many school science classes.</i>

You can believe it, but it doesn't make it true. The incidence is certainly quite low. Moreover, Edwards v Aguillard restricted the teaching of &quot;creation science&quot; and stated:

&quot;teaching a variety of scientific theories about the origins of humankind to school children might be validly done with the clear secular intent of enhancing the effectiveness of science instruction.&quot;

To date, virtually all attempts to force creationism to be taught have failed the &quot;secular intent&quot; test. So, can we finally put this myth about creationism being commonly taught to rest? Please?

Casey - I think you're deluding yourself. How would you &quot;Rule the world&quot;?

Do it in little portions - how are you going to &quot;Rule Russia&quot; or &quot;Rule China&quot;?

Not criticism, just realism.

I read about the posters who state crime, car-dependency and religious bigotry as reasons why they would never live in the USA and I have to joyfully say....GOOD RIDDANCE! :-D Anybody that speaks in such generalities needs to stay away as you definitely you will not be bringing anything to this country, but ignorance. OUR LOSS IS WELCOME!!

I have live in Europe, the Caribbean, and the USA. There is no doubt whatsover where you will find some of the best places to live in this planet....the USA!! Not a doubt.

Casey, do you seriously think that the US does currently 'sorta' rule the world? In what way? No-one would deny that the US is a major power, but there are other major powers.

Together, China and India have over 1/3rd of the world's population. How much influence do you think the US really has over those countries?

Next add in the rest of the world 6billion plus population - does the US 'rule' them?

You think the US could take control of the entire world tomorrow? All 194 (plus a few ones in dispute over existence) of them? Against the will of all those 6billions? Against the might of 194 militaries? How are you going to invade everywhere at once? And if you are thinking of gaining economic control - again, the US is very powerful, but not as powerful as the rest of the world put together. Not even as powerful as just China and India and the Middle East taking the opposing side to you. Deluded isn't the word for it. The only way the US could 'rule the world' would be by consent of the rest of the planet, and frankly, that aint gonna happen!

I meant 194 countries!

Nona, if Casey has made your point, you have made mine: that no matter how many well-reasoned, balanced presentations there are of the several sides of an issue, there are those who hear only the most strident voices or the most simplistic viewpoints and then extrapolate that they are representative of the whole.