would you if you could, move to the US
Jul 21st, 2008 | 01:16 AM
#201
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
<i>To the Americans defending America, I think it's hard to appreciate how odd others view America's toleration of guns and the insecurity they cause.</i>
But it would appear difficult for Europeans railing against it to, a) realistically assess the level of insecurity that results, and b) to view that toleration as a function of both history and geography. Some of the issue in the US is that there is no consensus as to whether it is needed. If you live in Wyoming, you will likely have a much different view on gun control than if you live in New York City And I'm not sure it is appropriate to implement, in Wyoming, a solution designed for New York City.
<i>But compared to Europe, having to worry as much as Americans do about gun crime is odd.</i>
I don't really think most Americans worry that much about gun crime. I know I don't. None of my friends have ever mentioned it as weighing on them. My family doesn't think about it, that I know of. And, if there was a groundswell of concern, then I would think you would get your wish and see more rigorous gun control.
<i>I know Americans don't think their weather is severe, but tornadoes, blizzards, ice storms, catastrophic flooding, Southern-style humidity and temps of 110 degrees in treeless deserts are not the norm is much of long-settled Europe.</i>
And they are not the norm in most of the settled US. There is a reason places like North Dakota are sparsely populated. But New York's weather is not decidedly different from what you see in Paris. And Boston is no colder than Stockholm in the winter. Athens can get nearly as hot as Phoenix. The UK saw relatively severe flooding as recently as last year, and the Eastern European countries also see flooding with some regularity.
American weather is severe, there is no doubt about that, but I think you underestimate just how nasty it can get in much of Europe.
But it would appear difficult for Europeans railing against it to, a) realistically assess the level of insecurity that results, and b) to view that toleration as a function of both history and geography. Some of the issue in the US is that there is no consensus as to whether it is needed. If you live in Wyoming, you will likely have a much different view on gun control than if you live in New York City And I'm not sure it is appropriate to implement, in Wyoming, a solution designed for New York City.
<i>But compared to Europe, having to worry as much as Americans do about gun crime is odd.</i>
I don't really think most Americans worry that much about gun crime. I know I don't. None of my friends have ever mentioned it as weighing on them. My family doesn't think about it, that I know of. And, if there was a groundswell of concern, then I would think you would get your wish and see more rigorous gun control.
<i>I know Americans don't think their weather is severe, but tornadoes, blizzards, ice storms, catastrophic flooding, Southern-style humidity and temps of 110 degrees in treeless deserts are not the norm is much of long-settled Europe.</i>
And they are not the norm in most of the settled US. There is a reason places like North Dakota are sparsely populated. But New York's weather is not decidedly different from what you see in Paris. And Boston is no colder than Stockholm in the winter. Athens can get nearly as hot as Phoenix. The UK saw relatively severe flooding as recently as last year, and the Eastern European countries also see flooding with some regularity.
American weather is severe, there is no doubt about that, but I think you underestimate just how nasty it can get in much of Europe.
Jul 21st, 2008 | 01:18 AM
#202
Guest
Posts: n/a
willit,
You said yourself half of the deaths were by suicide. You made it sound like it doesn't matter if it was suicide or murder. You obviously think suicide is the same as murder. You can't compare the two! If there are 30,000 deaths due to gun shot and 15,000 of them are suicide then only 15,000 are violent gun crimes. You can't say that 1,000,000 people were beat up last year even though half of them were boxing. That's doubletalk my friend. You said something that was obviously meant to mean one thing but worded it differenty. Obviously I can comprehend and look past what you were down playing. You knew you were wrong so you tried to make it seem like suicide was the same thing as murder.. You can word it however you want but when you try to make it seem like suicide and murder is the same thing then you should be called out on it. That crap does not fly. You are just making things up to try and prove a point that is running on empty. The only thing my comment disproves is your credibilty and honesty, ole chap.
You said yourself half of the deaths were by suicide. You made it sound like it doesn't matter if it was suicide or murder. You obviously think suicide is the same as murder. You can't compare the two! If there are 30,000 deaths due to gun shot and 15,000 of them are suicide then only 15,000 are violent gun crimes. You can't say that 1,000,000 people were beat up last year even though half of them were boxing. That's doubletalk my friend. You said something that was obviously meant to mean one thing but worded it differenty. Obviously I can comprehend and look past what you were down playing. You knew you were wrong so you tried to make it seem like suicide was the same thing as murder.. You can word it however you want but when you try to make it seem like suicide and murder is the same thing then you should be called out on it. That crap does not fly. You are just making things up to try and prove a point that is running on empty. The only thing my comment disproves is your credibilty and honesty, ole chap.
Jul 21st, 2008 | 01:18 AM
#203
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
"I am proud to be an American. As are the hundreds of millions of people who have come from Europe and all over the world to start a new beginning and be able to have the rights that we are given that others are not."
Name one. Just one.
Apart from the right to carry guns (created, you might remember, to ensure you didn't need a standing army. Got that one wrong, didn't they?) name just one right an American has that his distant Polish, Irish or Italians cousins don't.
It's pig-ignorant gibberish like casey's that summarise why practically none of us on this thread want to live in a society where glib belief in deluded nationalistic propaganda is so widespread.
Like North Korea with an obesity problem.
Name one. Just one.
Apart from the right to carry guns (created, you might remember, to ensure you didn't need a standing army. Got that one wrong, didn't they?) name just one right an American has that his distant Polish, Irish or Italians cousins don't.
It's pig-ignorant gibberish like casey's that summarise why practically none of us on this thread want to live in a society where glib belief in deluded nationalistic propaganda is so widespread.
Like North Korea with an obesity problem.
Jul 21st, 2008 | 01:34 AM
#204
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 1
You'll have to explain where I have said that murder and suicide are the same - I gave the statistic that 30k deaths a year are from gunshot, and then pointed out that 15k are actually suicides.
Your interpretation of this is that I am doubletalking, but it seems a straw man arguement to me. You are taking me to task for an incorrect interpretation of what I said.
This seems a pointless argument as we are not going to agree. I would be interested to see if others interpreted my post the same way you did. Maybe my language was imprecise, but I cannot see how you could turn it 180 degrees.
Your interpretation of this is that I am doubletalking, but it seems a straw man arguement to me. You are taking me to task for an incorrect interpretation of what I said.
This seems a pointless argument as we are not going to agree. I would be interested to see if others interpreted my post the same way you did. Maybe my language was imprecise, but I cannot see how you could turn it 180 degrees.
Jul 21st, 2008 | 01:35 AM
#205
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,236
Likes: 1
Casey said:
"Europe is great, I'd like to visit or even live their one day."
If you don't live outside the US or have never even visited Europe, I'm afraid your comments on this thread are just patriotic mumble jumble.
Switzerland and suicide: Yes, it's a terrible problem here. Living in a country that expects almost perfection from its citizens can lead to depression. That's one of many reasons why the government would like stricter gun controls.
The pressure of perfection is also one reason why some Swiss emmigrate. Opening a business is also difficult in Switzerland due to tight competition, which is another reason why some Swiss choose a different country to live in.
"Europe is great, I'd like to visit or even live their one day."
If you don't live outside the US or have never even visited Europe, I'm afraid your comments on this thread are just patriotic mumble jumble.
Switzerland and suicide: Yes, it's a terrible problem here. Living in a country that expects almost perfection from its citizens can lead to depression. That's one of many reasons why the government would like stricter gun controls.
The pressure of perfection is also one reason why some Swiss emmigrate. Opening a business is also difficult in Switzerland due to tight competition, which is another reason why some Swiss choose a different country to live in.
Jul 21st, 2008 | 01:37 AM
#206
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,016
Likes: 0
>So I guess you would just let him hurt you..
What if he was just asking for directions? Trigger happy, scared people that see crime everywhere. (Well, maybe it is everywhere???).
You can't go anywhere and simply ask where the next MCDonald is, because you may be trespassing without knowing and then this proud guy will shoot you.
What if he was just asking for directions? Trigger happy, scared people that see crime everywhere. (Well, maybe it is everywhere???).
You can't go anywhere and simply ask where the next MCDonald is, because you may be trespassing without knowing and then this proud guy will shoot you.
Jul 21st, 2008 | 02:33 AM
#212
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,236
Likes: 1
Casey,
Do you know how the Germans try to piss off their neighbours? They go through laws, rule and regulations until they find something they can complain about and then the fighting using the law as a weapon begins.
In Switzerland, we use loud grill parties because the neighbours are so close.
Do you know how the Germans try to piss off their neighbours? They go through laws, rule and regulations until they find something they can complain about and then the fighting using the law as a weapon begins.
In Switzerland, we use loud grill parties because the neighbours are so close.
Jul 21st, 2008 | 02:34 AM
#213
Guest
Posts: n/a
Who ever said someone was going to break into your house with a gun? What if he had a knife or a bat? I'm not saying that everyone should own a gun. It's a right here in America to own one if you wish. A lot of poeple choose not to. I do not own a gun. But if I ever wanted to I could go buy one. Many Europeans don't have that right. It's not guns that kill people, it's people that kill people.
Jul 21st, 2008 | 02:54 AM
#216
Guest
Posts: n/a
>>>It's guns that kill, all people can do is punch you in the face.
Last time I checked it took someone to pull the trigger. Unless you know of some magic gun I'm unaware of.
>>>Just curious : how many Europeans have you smelled in your lifetime?
None, thankfully. How many people have you known been shot in America?
Last time I checked it took someone to pull the trigger. Unless you know of some magic gun I'm unaware of.
>>>Just curious : how many Europeans have you smelled in your lifetime?
None, thankfully. How many people have you known been shot in America?
Jul 21st, 2008 | 03:10 AM
#218
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 0
name just one right an American has that his distant Polish, Irish or Italians cousins don't.
Can't think of any, but
the Polish, Irish and Italian cousins have the right not to languish on Death Row.
On a more frivolous note, they have the right to hang out their washing.
Can't think of any, but
the Polish, Irish and Italian cousins have the right not to languish on Death Row.
On a more frivolous note, they have the right to hang out their washing.
