Will my husband be detained?
Aug 13th, 2004, 05:26 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will my husband be detained?
Hi sorry,
I've created this new thread re: this earlier subject. Thanks for any help.
Author: ferrier50
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:01 pm
Message: So we found out something really crazy today.
A friend of ours about a month ago mentioned that someone he knew (a Canadian citizen, born and raised in Canada) had to get papers re: travelling to Italy or else he would be detained because of his Italian background.
Here's what the consulate told us:
Even if you're born outside of Italy, but you have a parent who was an Italian citizen, you could be considered an Italian citizen as well and can be detained while you're on Italian soil to serve in their military.
If the Italian parent doesn't get the new citizenship before their children are born, then those children are considered Italian citizens even if they were never born, ever set foot in Italy, have nothing to do with Italy.
Have any men out there with similar Italian family backgrounds visited Italy recently and have there been any attempts of detaining you?
There's supposed to be paperwork that has to be filled out, but the Italian consulate tells us it takes FOUR MONTHS!!!!!! We're leaving next month.
This is just so frustrating. Who knew that there's any way the Italian government can try to get you even if you were born elsewhere, a citizen of another country and never ever been there?
Please help.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Grasshopper
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:06 pm
Message: There's nothing on your passport that indicates your parents' nationality. How would they even know?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Huitres
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:21 pm
Message: What, I don't get this?! My sister and her husband live in Berlin, her 2 young children were born in Berlin, yet they are all American citizens. Just because he has an Italian heritage, he is still a Canadian citizen. Just because this person's parent did not get citizenship, by this guy being born in Canada, it made him a Canadian citizen. In my sister's case, her 2 children have dual citizenship: German and American -- they German being automatic because born in the country. His Italian nationality should have nothing to do with being conscripted into the Italian army! I don't know how different the Canadian law is, but I would think it is similar to America's. The passports don't indicate our parents' addresses, country of citizenship, etc. only ours! His says Canada and they will think he a Canadian of Italian descent. I would tell your friend that knows his friend, not to worry............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: taggie
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:31 pm
Message: This has been in the news lately also with regard to men of Greek descent. Some of them going to watch the Olympics have been in danger of being conscripted into the army.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: dgruzew
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:41 pm
Message: There are alot of serious problems with this
1 - How the heck could they possibly know he had an itialian parent?? - they would have to stop everyone at the border with an itialian SOUNDING last name and do some sort of genelogly research - it would take FORVEVER, unless they have some sort of database with his name in it.
2 - I did not even know that Italy had a draft ?? mabye they do - I just never heard of it
3 - I really don't think it is that easy to become an italian citizen (just having an italian parent)
Huitres, just FYI the US Goverment will not recongize your sisters childrens German Citizenship after they are 18 - I belive they will have to choose. The US does not recognize dual citizenship, alough germany and the EU might(so technicaly the germans might still consider them a citizen)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: elina
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:52 pm
Message: "they German being automatic because born in the country." I thought only Ireland and US grant a citizenship if one is born in the country. That is not usually the case in European countries (except before mentioned Ireland).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Christina
Date: 08/13/2004, 02:08 pm
Message: I suspect some of these things are being distorted in the telling.
First, Germany is not one to give away citizenship to a baby who just happens to be born in Germany, to my knowledge. In fact, that country really wants to regulate who gets citizenship, they are quite picky about it. I think they've eased up a bit, but the parents still have to have been legal residents in Germany for a long time.
I have an acquaintance with Greek parents and relatives, and I think he is actually Greek although he's lived in the US many years. Even he was not automatically drafted when he went back to Greece to live, and he never had a problem when he just visited there periodically. He finally decided to move back permanently and said he will have to make a decision about serving in the military when he's been resident about 6 months or something. He never was conscripted just because he was visiting Greece in the summer for a few weeks or even month before.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Huitres
Date: 08/13/2004, 02:25 pm
Message: To clarify re: the German citizenship question and my sister's children.....I should have stated that they have obtained dual citizenship for both children. It helped that both children were born in Berlin and my sister works as an official in the country, in addition to her being a long time (10+ years) resident in Germany.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: kismetchimera
Date: 08/13/2004, 02:44 pm
Message: If a child was born in Italy from an Italian father and a French mother for example ,and if the parents reside in that country, when the child is 18 years old, it used to be 21, he or she must decide if they want to be Italian or French citizens.
Every male, unless is exempts for a reason or other, is drafted for at least a year. If the male is a college student, he will join the army after he graduate..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Trish
Date: 08/13/2004, 03:24 pm
Message: If Italy handles this like Greece does he would not be allowed to spend more than 6 months in a calender year without risking conscription into the military. When entering Greece the immigration people seem to do something diffrent to my husbands passport than they do to mine although we both travel on Canadian ones.
We both have friends who have been in Greece for more than 6 months and have been contacted by the military, they have like two weeks to report for service or get out. The amazing thing is how they found them because they weren't staying at family property, so no one really knows.
Also on the back page of our Canadian passports they is a warning that says Canadian citizens with more than one nationality either through birth, descent or marrige are advised that while in the country of their nationality, they maybe suject to all laws, obligations particularly military service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: bardo
Date: 08/13/2004, 03:29 pm
Message: This is true if your parents were born in Iran and you were born in the US. That's why young Iranian-American males of military-draft age don't visit Iran. I have not heard this about Italy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: ferrier50
Date: 08/13/2004, 04:00 pm
Message: Thank you for all your replies.
My husband is a Canadian citizen, has a Canadian passport and was born here in Canada.
The Italian consulate here in Canada told him that because his father didn't get his citizenship until after he was born, then the Italian government considers my husband an Italian citizen - which means he's subject to all the laws re: citizenship and military service.
We told her that was insane and she said that unfortunately that's how the Italian government sees it. She said chances are slim that he'll be detained while he's in Italy - but of course she doesn't give us any guarantee.
We will be in Italy for 7 days next month. We want to be able to leave it when we choose.
I know it sounds crazy. We thought it was crazy, but apparently that's how the Italian government sees it. We're getting this information from the actual consulate.
If someone who's in a similar situation as my husband has travelled or travelling to Italy, could you tell me whether you encountered any problems or how you're dealing/dealt with them?
Thank you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've created this new thread re: this earlier subject. Thanks for any help.
Author: ferrier50
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:01 pm
Message: So we found out something really crazy today.
A friend of ours about a month ago mentioned that someone he knew (a Canadian citizen, born and raised in Canada) had to get papers re: travelling to Italy or else he would be detained because of his Italian background.
Here's what the consulate told us:
Even if you're born outside of Italy, but you have a parent who was an Italian citizen, you could be considered an Italian citizen as well and can be detained while you're on Italian soil to serve in their military.
If the Italian parent doesn't get the new citizenship before their children are born, then those children are considered Italian citizens even if they were never born, ever set foot in Italy, have nothing to do with Italy.
Have any men out there with similar Italian family backgrounds visited Italy recently and have there been any attempts of detaining you?
There's supposed to be paperwork that has to be filled out, but the Italian consulate tells us it takes FOUR MONTHS!!!!!! We're leaving next month.
This is just so frustrating. Who knew that there's any way the Italian government can try to get you even if you were born elsewhere, a citizen of another country and never ever been there?
Please help.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Grasshopper
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:06 pm
Message: There's nothing on your passport that indicates your parents' nationality. How would they even know?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Huitres
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:21 pm
Message: What, I don't get this?! My sister and her husband live in Berlin, her 2 young children were born in Berlin, yet they are all American citizens. Just because he has an Italian heritage, he is still a Canadian citizen. Just because this person's parent did not get citizenship, by this guy being born in Canada, it made him a Canadian citizen. In my sister's case, her 2 children have dual citizenship: German and American -- they German being automatic because born in the country. His Italian nationality should have nothing to do with being conscripted into the Italian army! I don't know how different the Canadian law is, but I would think it is similar to America's. The passports don't indicate our parents' addresses, country of citizenship, etc. only ours! His says Canada and they will think he a Canadian of Italian descent. I would tell your friend that knows his friend, not to worry............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: taggie
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:31 pm
Message: This has been in the news lately also with regard to men of Greek descent. Some of them going to watch the Olympics have been in danger of being conscripted into the army.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: dgruzew
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:41 pm
Message: There are alot of serious problems with this
1 - How the heck could they possibly know he had an itialian parent?? - they would have to stop everyone at the border with an itialian SOUNDING last name and do some sort of genelogly research - it would take FORVEVER, unless they have some sort of database with his name in it.
2 - I did not even know that Italy had a draft ?? mabye they do - I just never heard of it
3 - I really don't think it is that easy to become an italian citizen (just having an italian parent)
Huitres, just FYI the US Goverment will not recongize your sisters childrens German Citizenship after they are 18 - I belive they will have to choose. The US does not recognize dual citizenship, alough germany and the EU might(so technicaly the germans might still consider them a citizen)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: elina
Date: 08/13/2004, 01:52 pm
Message: "they German being automatic because born in the country." I thought only Ireland and US grant a citizenship if one is born in the country. That is not usually the case in European countries (except before mentioned Ireland).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Christina
Date: 08/13/2004, 02:08 pm
Message: I suspect some of these things are being distorted in the telling.
First, Germany is not one to give away citizenship to a baby who just happens to be born in Germany, to my knowledge. In fact, that country really wants to regulate who gets citizenship, they are quite picky about it. I think they've eased up a bit, but the parents still have to have been legal residents in Germany for a long time.
I have an acquaintance with Greek parents and relatives, and I think he is actually Greek although he's lived in the US many years. Even he was not automatically drafted when he went back to Greece to live, and he never had a problem when he just visited there periodically. He finally decided to move back permanently and said he will have to make a decision about serving in the military when he's been resident about 6 months or something. He never was conscripted just because he was visiting Greece in the summer for a few weeks or even month before.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Huitres
Date: 08/13/2004, 02:25 pm
Message: To clarify re: the German citizenship question and my sister's children.....I should have stated that they have obtained dual citizenship for both children. It helped that both children were born in Berlin and my sister works as an official in the country, in addition to her being a long time (10+ years) resident in Germany.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: kismetchimera
Date: 08/13/2004, 02:44 pm
Message: If a child was born in Italy from an Italian father and a French mother for example ,and if the parents reside in that country, when the child is 18 years old, it used to be 21, he or she must decide if they want to be Italian or French citizens.
Every male, unless is exempts for a reason or other, is drafted for at least a year. If the male is a college student, he will join the army after he graduate..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Trish
Date: 08/13/2004, 03:24 pm
Message: If Italy handles this like Greece does he would not be allowed to spend more than 6 months in a calender year without risking conscription into the military. When entering Greece the immigration people seem to do something diffrent to my husbands passport than they do to mine although we both travel on Canadian ones.
We both have friends who have been in Greece for more than 6 months and have been contacted by the military, they have like two weeks to report for service or get out. The amazing thing is how they found them because they weren't staying at family property, so no one really knows.
Also on the back page of our Canadian passports they is a warning that says Canadian citizens with more than one nationality either through birth, descent or marrige are advised that while in the country of their nationality, they maybe suject to all laws, obligations particularly military service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: bardo
Date: 08/13/2004, 03:29 pm
Message: This is true if your parents were born in Iran and you were born in the US. That's why young Iranian-American males of military-draft age don't visit Iran. I have not heard this about Italy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: ferrier50
Date: 08/13/2004, 04:00 pm
Message: Thank you for all your replies.
My husband is a Canadian citizen, has a Canadian passport and was born here in Canada.
The Italian consulate here in Canada told him that because his father didn't get his citizenship until after he was born, then the Italian government considers my husband an Italian citizen - which means he's subject to all the laws re: citizenship and military service.
We told her that was insane and she said that unfortunately that's how the Italian government sees it. She said chances are slim that he'll be detained while he's in Italy - but of course she doesn't give us any guarantee.
We will be in Italy for 7 days next month. We want to be able to leave it when we choose.
I know it sounds crazy. We thought it was crazy, but apparently that's how the Italian government sees it. We're getting this information from the actual consulate.
If someone who's in a similar situation as my husband has travelled or travelling to Italy, could you tell me whether you encountered any problems or how you're dealing/dealt with them?
Thank you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aug 13th, 2004, 05:35 PM
#2
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ferrier-my suggestion to you would be to see an immigration lawyer-if you REALLY want peace of mind (of course, you'll have to pay-but maybe not much!) and have him/her provide experienced legal advice on the matter-after doing some legal research on your behalf.
Aug 13th, 2004, 05:54 PM
#3
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Balderdash - there is ZERO chance he will be detained. If you have a Canadian or US passport, they don't even look at you. They won't run any check on your ancestory. Unless you come in from Switzerland, not a member of the EU, they won't even check passports, Italy being a member of the Schengen Accord, abolishing border formalities among EU members. I can't believe anyone would give serious concern about this. Forget it.
Aug 13th, 2004, 06:03 PM
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for your replies.
PalQ, thanks for the assurance. I guess we wouldn't be so concerned if a) our own Canadian federal website warns us about this kind of thing and b) the Italian consulate here confirms it.
We're told the chances are small. So I just wanted to make sure that in reality this hasn't happened to anyone in Italy.
Thanks.
PalQ, thanks for the assurance. I guess we wouldn't be so concerned if a) our own Canadian federal website warns us about this kind of thing and b) the Italian consulate here confirms it.
We're told the chances are small. So I just wanted to make sure that in reality this hasn't happened to anyone in Italy.
Thanks.
Aug 13th, 2004, 06:06 PM
#5
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ferrier-if the Canadian Govt. is warning about this matter on its website, then I WOULD NOT IGNORE IT, NOR TAKE THE ADVICE OF POSTERS, HOWEVER WELL-MEANING!
See an immigration lawyer-they have the knowledge, skills and experience to properly advise you on this issue!
See an immigration lawyer-they have the knowledge, skills and experience to properly advise you on this issue!
Aug 13th, 2004, 06:56 PM
#8
I can't help myself. I'm possessed.
What's the thinnest book in the world?
The book of Italian war heroes.
What do Italian Special Forces shout as they jump ashore from the Zodiac?
Retreat!
There are more.
What's the thinnest book in the world?
The book of Italian war heroes.
What do Italian Special Forces shout as they jump ashore from the Zodiac?
Retreat!
There are more.
Aug 13th, 2004, 07:10 PM
#9
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Ferrier...I just read the cdn govt site and that quote comes from the dual citizenship area. If your husband has dual citizenship (cdn and italian) he could be detained because Italy doesnt recognize dual citizenship, therefore wouldnt recognize your husband as cdn...he would be considered Italian only. Becuase he is a citizen of Italy he would be expected to abide by their rules.
If your husband is not dual citizen then there is no need to worry! There is no way for them to know if he is of Italian descent if he is not a citizen of Italy.
Does that make sense?
If your husband is not dual citizen then there is no need to worry! There is no way for them to know if he is of Italian descent if he is not a citizen of Italy.
Does that make sense?
Aug 13th, 2004, 07:12 PM
#10
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is the Italian citizenship laws that are causing this. You need to find out if your husband is considered an Italian citizen. If he is, he can renounce his citizenship in Italy and there should be no problem.
Aug 13th, 2004, 07:19 PM
#11
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jamikins- I know you're trying to help- but really, are you SURE that what you're saying is correct? Are you an immigrations lawyer? And would you want Ferrier to rely on what you've said, then have something very unpleasant happen to her and her husband in Italy as a result? If you wouldn't want that for Ferrier-then why act like you're the definitive word on the subject?
Ferrier-it's nice to have posters who want to help, but only a trained immigration lawyer can provide you with the solid legal advice you need. Remember, with a lawyer, you can sue them for malpractice if they give you incorrect advice!
Ferrier-it's nice to have posters who want to help, but only a trained immigration lawyer can provide you with the solid legal advice you need. Remember, with a lawyer, you can sue them for malpractice if they give you incorrect advice!
Aug 13th, 2004, 07:19 PM
#12
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is a pdf brochure that the CDN govt publishes. There are some numbers to call, although I really think you will need to contact teh Italian embassy and ask.
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/pubs/PD...zenship-en.pdf
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/pubs/PD...zenship-en.pdf
Aug 13th, 2004, 07:22 PM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not a lawyer nor do I claim to be an expert, dont be silly. in fact, I believe I told her to contact someone to determine if he is an italian citizen. I am quoting the rest right off the cdn go't website. I just researched this as I am getting my Brisith citizenship. I am only supplying her with some details of the tools I used.
Anyone that would trust a stranger posting on a website without lookingo into this with a professional would be crazy.
Anyone that would trust a stranger posting on a website without lookingo into this with a professional would be crazy.
Aug 13th, 2004, 07:33 PM
#15
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, you wildly overreacted to what I said. As long as you make it clear to someone who might otherwise rely on your words that you are NOT the definitive word on the subject, then it's perfectly o.k. to give helpful advice regarding immigration/visa issues. But the caveat should be explicit!
Aug 13th, 2004, 07:40 PM
#17
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the way ferrier50, how old is your husband?
I dont think nothing is going to happens to him, dont worry so much..
Millions of sons of immigrants go to Italy in vacations..If your husband has a canadian passport, nobody is going to question it..
Enjoy your vacation and have Fun..
I dont think nothing is going to happens to him, dont worry so much..
Millions of sons of immigrants go to Italy in vacations..If your husband has a canadian passport, nobody is going to question it..
Enjoy your vacation and have Fun..
Aug 13th, 2004, 07:41 PM
#18
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ferrier50. I am not, nor do I claim to be an expert. I am a cdn citizen that is researching my own dual citizenship with Britain and wanted to provide you with the info that helped me and the fact that this quote came from teh dual citizen part of the cdn govt site...not the regular travel part.
Aug 13th, 2004, 07:59 PM
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you to everyone who replied.
Please, I never intended this post to create some friction among posters.
Spygirl and jamikins, thanks for your thoughts on this.
I just wanted to find out whether anyone in this forum had actually gone through this so-called detainment.
Under the Italian citizenship laws, if one of your parents is still an Italian citizen when you're born, you're considered an Italian citizen. It doesn't matter whether you were born in the U.S., Canada or elsewhere.
We're trying to deal with this with the consulate here before we leave.
Again, the intention of this post was to find out whether someone had actually gone through this kind of thing, not to cause arguments. This forum is such a great resource so I thought I would find out if there were other travellers facing the same kind of problem.
Thanks for all the suggestions. We appreciate it.
Please, I never intended this post to create some friction among posters.
Spygirl and jamikins, thanks for your thoughts on this.
I just wanted to find out whether anyone in this forum had actually gone through this so-called detainment.
Under the Italian citizenship laws, if one of your parents is still an Italian citizen when you're born, you're considered an Italian citizen. It doesn't matter whether you were born in the U.S., Canada or elsewhere.
We're trying to deal with this with the consulate here before we leave.
Again, the intention of this post was to find out whether someone had actually gone through this kind of thing, not to cause arguments. This forum is such a great resource so I thought I would find out if there were other travellers facing the same kind of problem.
Thanks for all the suggestions. We appreciate it.
Aug 13th, 2004, 08:12 PM
#20
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ferrier-the consulate is your best source of information-but like you said, it certainly doesn't hurt to see if anyone else has gone through this situation-just be careful and don't treat the matter casually, in the hopes that everything will go okay-that's precisely when they won't. You don't fool around these days with immigration,/visa issues-believe me!
