lynn

Happy New Year! <BR> <BR>Is it just me or does it seem out of line that an "average" restaurant meal is now running between $40-50 per person without drinks? <BR> <BR>It seems that everywhere we go (Europe, Asia, U.S., etc.), even many places near home, the decent meal for under $10 is not to be found. <BR> <BR>True, many local "lucky greek" type restaurants have good food and great specials. I know the one near my house has the best fried chicken in the world but you can't eat there all the time. Too fattening! <BR> <BR>Anyone have any ideas when all the prices jumped through the roof. I must have not been paying attention because it seems like all of a sudden in the last year or so, going out has gotten very expensive. <BR> <BR>Just some food for thought... <BR> <BR

lola

In NYC we are lucky: pre fixe, pre theatre, lunches and special deals are all great value, even at the finest restaurants. And if you eat at neighborhood restaurants, you can dine well at far under your price range. It is vital to be aware of the deals and to stay away from tourist-oriented places; also, if portions are large I now am not ashamed to take food home, often wrapped beautifully by my waiter in a silver swan or some such (at better restaurants, portions are often small--which is fine with me). Because so many people eat out so often, local places often offer better deals than if you cooked yourself.

Al

Maybe my palate lacks sophistication, but I find eating at Sizzler, Boston Market, Chili's, and some other chain eateries offer good value for money. On the road, we often picnic one meal a day. We go to the deli counter of almost any big supermarket and fix our own lunches into one of those styrofoam clamshells. What I find most annoying are the enormous portions given at most restaurants -- thus boosting the tab needlessly. In most restaurant operations, the cost of food ingredients represent a small fraction of the cost of the meal. The largest piece of the overhead is labor, followed by facilities.

bo_jack

lynn -- <BR>what "average" places are your talking about? Cities? Specific restaruants? I expect to pay $10 - $25 without wine at "average" restaurants -- my most recent frames of restaurants are California (San Jose/Bay Area), Atlanta, Decatur/Huntsville, Alabama, Various places in Bavaria & Austria, Various Places in Spain. I do not go out of my way to eat cheap, and I agree that a good dinner for less than $10 is hard to find, but I am not seeing the prices that you seem to be.

Linda

I'm not sure where you eat Lynn but I've not run into any average places charging $40-50 per person. Of course if one wants to you can always find that type of place, but average to me means more in the $12-$20 range and there are plenty of them where I live in Arizona. You can get some really decent meals for under $15 at many nice places in AZ, CA, etc. I'd stay away from strictly tourist places, they do tend to be higher, likewise hotel dining rooms.

lynn

Greetings - <BR> <BR>I agree with average being $12-$15. That's why it irritates me that so many places are so much more. <BR> <BR>I live So. Cal. and certainly have plenty of neighborhood restaurants to go to. However, I recently went to have what I thought would be a cheap meal at a local Denny's and they were charging $8.00 for a ceasar salad! Denny's mind you, not a specialty chain or private restaurant. By the time we left a tip and had sodas the bill was about $25. I remember when we used to go to Denny's for the exact reason that with tip and everything the bill would be around $15-16. <BR> <BR>As I said earlier, we have lots of neighborhood places around but even some of them are not cheap. A couple of weeks ago we went to a local Thai BBQ place. We looked at the menu and everything seemed reasonable. But, after soup, 2 entrees to share, white rice, and 1 scoop of coconut ice cream, dinner was $30. True, only $15 per head but we're talking very simple, local joint. Not much atmosphere, etc. <BR>The food was pretty good but not good enough for $30. <BR> <BR>In any case, in my experience, I'm just seeing this all over and was just wondering if anyone else was too. <BR> <BR>We went to Vegas over the weekend and I was purusing several menus of various restaurants. Amazing some of the prices. I know Vegas is a tourist place but I remember when most food was pretty cheap there. And if you were willing to spend $20 a person you were getting really good food. Now, they're charging $30 for the a la carte entree... And if you add wine, figure another $30 minimum, and they call that the budget bottle. <BR> <BR>Oh well, if I want to try any of these places I guess I'll have to take my lumps and spend the money. If I don't want to spend it, I'll just have to do without. That's the bottom line isn't? <BR> <BR>C'est la vie! <BR> <BR <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Neal Sanders

Lynn, it's just my ill-considered opinion, but I suspect there are three or even four different laws at work in your observation. <BR> <BR>Law #1: The price of the meal declines as the inverse-square of the distance from the nearest Four Seasons hotel. In New York, it is possible to have a superb meal for under $10 -- in Jackson Heights, Queens. It is a fairly safe assumption that the overlap between patrons of the Four Seasons and that restaurant in Queens is very, very small. The problem, unfortunately, is that whatever hotel you're staying at is likely to be closer to the Four Seasons than to Queens. <BR> <BR>Law #2: Nobody goes to Prague to eat at McDonalds. You can gorge yourself to unconsciousness at any fast food restaurant for $10. The one near my office offers the Big Mac Value Meal for $3.19, and three BMVMs represent a volume of food (and grease) I choose not to think about. But when I travel, I want the local specialty, not the stuff I can get back home. And so, I bypass the readily available Sizzler, Boston Market, Chili's, etc. <BR> <BR>Law #3: With experience comes suspicion. In my younger days, when I believed myself to be immortal, I would not hesitate to take a chance on a restaurant solely on the basis of the wonderful smell coming out of the door. So what if it was in the basement and the block wasn't that great? I remember a low-budget trip to Paris during which I was sustained by the 10-franc gyros then available on the Left Bank. Today, I am painfully aware of my mortality and I have long memories of meals where the smell was wonderful but the food was tainted. And so I look for the "safe" restaurants that have been recommended, and these are invariably more expensive. <BR> <BR>And, Law #4: With age comes pampering. When I was young, I was so eager to see the world that I would board any plane or train and sleep in any hotel, just for the thrill of being someplace new. Now, I plan trips carefully: figure out how to get myself into business or first class, bargain for the deluxe room with the killer view, and choose restaurants for the pleasure of the meal. Put simply, I'm willing to pay for stuff that I wouldn't have paid for lo those many years ago (though not necessarily to pay the rack rate). The "decent $10 meal" is still there, it may even be farther down the menu in the restaurant where I'm dining. But I've never had a Rifjstabel, and it sounds too good to pass up. <BR> <BR>What do you think?

lynn

Neal... <BR> <BR>I liked your response very much. <BR> <BR>I do agree, with age, comes a desire for pampering. I'm not old and I'm not young but I do like my share of pampering. <BR> <BR>And please, don't anyone get me wrong. This topic is mostly meant as playful moaning and groaning. I am fully aware that many times in life, you get what you pay for. On a recent trip to Bangkok I insisted we do dinner at the most upscale French restaurant in town. Why? Because in Paris I couldn't even afford the thought, but in Bangkok, it was "doable." We (my husband and I)had dinner with all the courses, palette cleansers, cheese plate, dessert, petit fours, etc., for $250. That included (1) $40 bottle of wine. Not cheap, but compared to some of the expensive places whose menus I looked at in Paris, it was a pretty good deal. Complete with floor to ceiling window view of the river and Thai service to boot. And no French restaurant in paris could match the level of Thai service. <BR> <BR>In the end, I guess it boils down to knowing where to get what and what you are in the mood for. Sometimes, you just want a greasy burger and other times a plate of artistic pasta with slices of beef standing on end topped with sprigs of rosemary. <BR> <BR>Next time I get to thinking things are too expensive I'll head down to "Lucky Greek" near my shop and order the broasted chicken dinner. You get the best fried 1/2 chicken you ever had, onion rings, fried zucchini(sp?), and a roll and it only costs $4.65! True, it's a heart attack waiting to happen but that's why you only do it once in a while. <BR> <BR>Have a great day!

elvira

With the rampant economy comes the "more money than brains" theory. People have the money to spend, and so they do - even on over-priced stuff they don't need. The retailer will charge what the market will bear. Food is no exception; yes, I remember being able to eat in a Denny's for $5 - and that's all it was worth. It is NOT worth $10 (which is what it costs now). <BR> <BR>I can eat well in a Chinese restaurant (excluding those upscale hoity-toity Asian-Euro nouvelle cuisine abominations) for $10; ditto Mexican (and NOT Taco Bell; I mean places called Chuy's and LaFuenta). Italian restaurants offer good value - unless it's something called Sfuzzi or the ilk. City food costs more than 'burb or country food - re Neal's assessment of the proximity of the Four Seasons hotel. High rent 'hoods (financial districts, high-end retail areas, etc.) breed high-rent eateries. Less expensive 'hoods (lots of factories and small businesses vs companies with the word "World" "First" or "Trust" in their names) have fair-priced beaneries (no valet parking or potpourri in the ladies' room). I follow the same rules when I travel; if I am in a neighborhood where all the shop's are oddly-spelled women's names (Dona, Sherree, Ysabelle) I'm going to pay $8 for an iced tea. If the businesses in the neighborhood include a bail bondsman and a Catholic bookstore, I'm going to find a really good chicken dinner for $5.95. <BR> <BR>I'm with Al on the too-much food observation; I have no desire to eat a pound-and-a-half of sirloin. Oh yeah and that salad bar...$17 for dinner, and I have to WAIT ON MYSELF?? All so I can think I'm getting a great bargain? Cripes, I know what lettuce costs and it ain't enough to justify my walking up to the salad bar. <BR> <BR>Lastly...wine. I can buy a bottle of wine at Frank's Liquor and Insurance Shop for $15 - across the street, LaSnooty is charging $35 for the same bottle when served with dinner. In France, in a restaurant, a picher is what $8? a bottle of local wine, like $10? Why so much more in the U.S.? ooooh could it be...greed? <BR>

Beth

oooh, Elvira, your comment about the wine prices definitely hit my hot button. I don't understand why restaurants have to give this huge markup on wine. Sometimes if a bottle is older, and has been cellared a while it makes sense. But mostly they are selling $10 bottles for $35, and $35 bottles for $80. There are a few places that have a fixed markup, like $5-10. And a very few that don't mind if you bring your own and charge you $5-10 for corkage. <BR> <BR>It was one of the great things about restaurants in Italy. You could find excellent local wines for $10. Or you could get a very fine wine for $60+ that you would probably pay $200 for in an American restaurant.

lynn

Elvira - <BR> <BR>I think you must have hit it. The economy has been so good, all the eateries have been getting carried away. The worst thing is, some of these places are simply not worth it. And of course, you never go back. It's just very frustrating thinking you're going to a place that has good food, service, atmosphere, etc. and you end up completely disappointed. We ate at one of the restaurants in the Bellagio in Vegas last year and it was terrible. The food was O.K. but the entire experience was nowhere near worth the $100. We felt like we were at a TGIF or Chili's. <BR> <BR>Well, perhaps one day I'll just stop going out. Yeah! Right! <BR> <BR