ekscrunchy

Linda I read Eric's first book...I am in agreement with much of what he writes and I know that in some inner city areas the only fresh food at the bodegas are some poor specimens of banana, onion, plantain, etc,..all overpriced. I guess because I live in NYC I am not totally aware of the dire situation in other areas regarding food. Here in NY we have Farmer's Markets throughout the city so it is not quite so dire. One of the best concentrations of high quality food shops in Manhattan is, in fact, in Harlem which in part speaks more to the gentrification of the area than of the retailers serving the needs of the majority of residents. But we are getting away from the original subject here.....

Does anyone know what public school cafeterias in France serve to their students? Now THAT would be interesting as a predictor of eating trends in that country. It cannot be as bad as here in the US..

LLindaC

ha ha, funny you should ask that, because I spent two months studying at Universite de Montpellier in the summer and the cafeteria food was disgusting. The only thing I could eat was yogurt. I kept wiring home for more money, cause we students would find all sorts of wonderful restaurants. Yes, those little sidewalk cafes with the thick chewy bread and jambon, steak frites, warm croissants every morning....

mikelg

All schools in Spain offer exclusively a menu based on the mediterranean diet, that is, veggies and fish, in olive oil. I donīt know about France, but it is probably at school where all begins...

BTilke

Which inner cities do you mean? Center City Philadelphia has a fabulous market, Reading Terminal, as well as a couple of Whole Foods. Plus places like the Italian Market. I would say they have an extreme advantage, NOT disadvantage! Portland, OR, also has numerous places to find excellent produce, meat, cheese, etc. Even Allentown, PA, has a wonderful farmers' market, which has been around for decades, that showcases many small producers, butchers, etc. Generations of families have been shopping there, long before these markets became fashionable (and unlike Lancaster's market, this one doesn't do double duty as a tourist attraction) http://www.fairgroundfarmersmkt.com/mkt_merch.htm

Heavens

All I know is that entire time we were in Paris (and France for that matter) we did not run into an Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Ihop, Chile's, Applebees, Fridays, Cheesecake Factory, Dennys, or even an Outback. We didn't run into any chains at all.

It appeared to us that these were all Mom and Pop type restaurants, cafes, brasseries, sandwich shops, boulangeries, whatever their particular shop was, and that each place, if they served prepared food had a chef who takes some pride in the stuff that he/she puts out for people to eat everyday and does not want to be just like the cafe across the street. There seems to be some pride in their individualism and quality.

Again, that was just OUR observation of the food in Paris. Funny, it was our friends observation too, and they could care less about food. They like to eat it but don't go on about it. Except he is still trying to recreate his fabulous vegie plate...

Laidback

Author: AnthonyGA
Date: 05/17/2006, 12:00 am
"It's not imagination that French food is generally better than American food; it is due to a number of factors, but they add up to a higher standard for food among consumers. For example, a theme restaurant with really bad food can survive indefinitely in the U.S., whereas any restaurant with bad food in France will go out of business fairly quickly, no matter what wonderful theme it has."

AnthonyGA, in general I agree, but then how do you explain the old bouillon "Chartier" with its "historical" theme and terrible quality food. Also I enjoy sandwiches in Paris, especially those made by Cosi, but to my taste I prefer the classics from several good NYC delis. I think we also tend to buy into the small French family farm from a generation or so ago; France is the largest agri-business in Europe and most of the product is grown on huge "company" farms where pesticides are not unknown. Don't get me wrong, in general I find the level of quality of product and cuisine superior in France and Italy than in the U.S., but I think we may tend to over romanticize and generalize.

Carta_Pisana

I won't eat a day old bagel - I only buy a fresh bagel made that day. In Whiole Foods I never purchase the pre-prepared gourmet food - it's not fresh. When in Paris, Oaxaca, Rome, etc - I was amazed at how fresh, as in just made, so many food prodcuts were. I get the sense that many Americans will eat "day olds". A sense of place is so simportant yet in this day of globalization so many products are developing a uniformed taste. A tomato from Florida should taste different than a tomato from New Jersey or California - it's about terroir.

Guy18

ekscrunchy--In reference to school cafeteria food, you should read "On Rue Tatin," one of the ubiquitous American-in-France books (in this case Normandy). In it she describes the gourmet lunches provided at her son's elementary school.

While it goes without saying that one can find good food in the U.S., I agree with Heavens that things taste better in Europe. "Delicate" is the word that comes to mind. The light, almost bright orange tomato sauce on a frutti di mare in Lugano--like nothing I've ever been served in the states. Or the egg and tomato sandwiches you buy on Paris street corners? It's all about the lightness of the baguette. What about the pale green, tender lettuce on a tuna panini in Italy? What American sandwich maker would go through the trouble to procure an ingredient like that? So I do think, generally, Europeans generally take more pride in what they serve.

One thing that is so much more delicious over there is beer. There are simply no words to describe the light, fresh, yet flavorful nature of European (Swiss, Czech, Italian) beers that, maybe with the exception of some microbreweries, is simply missing in the U.S.

walkinaround

i agree with rillifane. this thread is full of hyperbole both ways. as usual, with these american europhile love-fests, it just keeps getting piled on thicker and thicker until it becomes pure fantasy.

france does have some of the best food in the world but to compare the best french food with the worst american food is a useless exercise. it's funny to see people acknowledging that there is some good american food but that it is "too expensive". maybe when you shop in markets in france, you don't notice the cost as you are on holiday or because it is in a different currency. if you supported those who produce higher quality products in lower volumes at home, you would contribute to raising the standards. but, in fact, few people are willing to pay more for something grown or raised locally. and if you did support said producers, you would not be complaining here.

there is plenty of good food to be had in the US and i really have no idea why people get such pleasure in exaggerating the gap between french and american food. my only thought is that they perhaps want to create an air of "look what you are missing" to their less travelled friends...that insulting..."you haven't lived until you've had ____ in france".

perhaps if you travel more, you will learn to look at things with more of a sense of reality and appreciate what you have at home. there are many things that i miss from my time living in the US. it was always quite easy to get fresh, high quality food...and i was always willing to pay more for it.

sansman

Man, how can you miss German beer on that list, you might get strung up for that by true beer lovers (Swiss beer, blah, German beer good). Mass produced American beer crap.

Guy18

His sansman,

Probably because it's been 10 years since I was in Germany. I'm sure it belongs right at the top of the list!

Well, maybe after Czech beer. I'm getting misty-eyed remembering it...

ekscrunchy

For the most part, we are all talking about the food available in Paris or other cities or towns that we are likely to visit. But if we are talking about food available in "inner cities" I wonder what the food choices are in the markets of the banlieue or in the outer suburbs of Nancy, for example....are there great markets and super-fresh choices available to those residents?

suze

<<inner city dwellers are at an extreme disadvantage in finding fresh produce and healthy foods>>

Disagree! Or at least it depends what city. Here in Seattle we are blessed with loads of fresh and healthy options. Heck you can buy shares at an organic farm and they will bring boxes of produce to your door each week. There are large numbers of neighborhood weekly farmers market. Decent bakeries and butchers abound. Not to get started on all the various ethnic food easily found. Oh and the fresh fish in season right now.

Heavens

All I can tell you is our experience in Bayeux, don't know if that is a good example, but we found that the food in that small town was pretty much the same as in Paris. Small shops, small restaurants, Mom and Pop places with excellent food. DH and I would take walks at 6 in the morning and always find little bakeries with very fresh rolls, croissants, bread and busy making sandwiches for the day. It is colder in Normandy so there wern't very many outdoor tables as in Paris, unless they put them out in the summer.

there is plenty of good food to be had in the US

I didn't say that we don't have plenty of good food in the US. But the masses dictate the quality and with all the mediocre chains popping up all over our landscape, it appears that our taste for food is different.

And I didn't even mention the "fast food" places. We have a need for those just like Paris does. IMO. Cheap, quick, fills you up... Even I love a good In and Out burger now and again. But I will not eat food and spend the money for food in an Applebees or Dennys. Maybe if I hadn't eaten in a few days. Is this the worst of American food? Not sure. I just know there are a lot of them. More and more, each day. Somebody's eating there.

wally34949

Because the French eat their food with wine and Americans (we) eat our food with sodas.

RufusTFirefly

Actually there are many wonderful American beers now. Walk into just about any liquor store in the USA and you'll have your choice of dozens of excellent American beers of all varieties.

Yes, mass-produced American beer a pretty much tasteless, but there are plenty of options readily available these days.

tower

Heavens...home here in Greater L.A., I can match any meal I ever had in France at less cost, and equally enjoyable ambience. Lets not minimize the "vacation psychology" of it all...I love France where I've been more than a dozen times, just as I love Italy, and on and on...but I can also make the same introductory statement above substituting NYC, Boston, Chicago, San Fran, etc., all cities where I have dined very, very well.
Stu T.

easytraveler

"perhaps if you travel more, you'll learn to look at things with more of a sense of reality and appreciate what you have at home"

Umm, this is a non sequitur for me.

I HAVE travelled a great deal, both for business and for pleasure, both internationally and domestically.

I do LOVE, not just appreciate, what I have at home - all this California sunshine, great local produce almost all year round and when winter comes, we get the wonderful fruits and vegetables from South America and Mexico, terrific chefs at great restaurants, particularly in San Francisco, but all over California.

AND I am an In-and-Out Burger junkie.

BUT... food tastes better in France - and Italy - and Germany - and the Czech Republic (holy smokes, have you tried their river trout?)

AND, food tastes better in Bangkok - and Beijing - and New Delhi.

I try, while at home, to go with organic foods purchased from smaller, local grocery stores like Cosentino's, Lunardi's, and from Trader Joe's. Even so, and with the best olive oil from Europe and Irish butter, my dishes do NOT turn out the way they do in Europe. This is, of course, not the fault of the food, but mine and mine alone.

"Terroir" has a lot to do with it. There is organic farming and there is organic food. The two are different. Organic farming preserves the land. There is even a method of organic farming known as "French intensive". The WAY farmers farm has a lot to do with the way the food tastes.

Another difference is that already mentioned: industrialized farming, where tomatoes are picked green, then infused with gas to make them turn red - all of which processing makes for cardboard food. Not all processed food is cardboard food. I happen to love the frozen baby peas from Trader Joe's; they are always SO sweet and tender.

Finally, the cooking. I do believe that Americans don't take pride in their cooking as much as Europeans do. There's nothing like going to a fancy steak place and be served with a divine steak, only to bite into some dusty vegetables and know that those vegetables haven't been washed! Ye gad!

JMHO. Have a great weekend, all. Hope you will have a divine dining experience this weekend, wherever you live! Me? I'm off to see an East European friend of mine who is going to cook a superb East European meal with local California produce.

toulousaine

I just lost my post...it was good too!

Quickly, I just want to say that where I live, we don't have the fortune to have a decent famers market. Ours is a total joke. There is nothing of value there.

We also have a butcher shop, which has inferior meat and does not sell deli meats. I can get a much better steak or roast at Safeway or Albertsons.

We don't have a bakery, unless you call a donut shop one.

I have YET to find a bread in the USA that is comparable to a baguette in France.

I can drive 3 hours each way to the Portland Farmers Market, but I think that would be a little excessive each week.

I have Trader Joe's if I drive one hour each way. Otherwise, my choices are Safeway, Albertsons, Fred Meyer and some smaller grocery chains that are not good.

But addressing the beer situation, because I live in the PacNW, I cannot say that France has any beer to measure up to our microbrews. I have never been to German, so I am not referring to their beers. Kronenberg, Amstel and Heineken are right up there with Miller and Bud, to me.

I, too, appreciate the local specialties of our region and I think that we have some ingredients and foods that France just doesn't have and I missed those when I lived there. Mostly, I missed Mexican food.

Guy18

easytraveler--you reminded me of my first taste of cooked mushrooms in the Czech Republic. All I can say is, I never had a mushroom before or since that tasted so intensely, so divinely mushroomy!