Would love to travel independently, but as a senior widow prefer to avoid the hassle of catching trains, planes, buses, trams, etc.Have taken tours and do prefer planning my own itinerary, but if I want to see more of the world while I'm healthy, I have to take the tours. Maybe tolerance or understanding other's situations might apply.

We may ALL let someone else do the driving when we reach age 65. I read in Wall St. Jour. yesterday that car rentals will require you be 65 or under. Avis in Ireland is 65 and UK may be 69. So depending on your circumstances & age may determine how you see Europe. <BR>

This is a very interesting forum. My first trip to Europe, 30-plus years ago I was a student. We traveled in all kinds of independent ways, from foot and bike to train and car, small hotels, camping and hostels - but the school also took us on field trips - 80 students plus faculty staff etc. A veritable caravan! We took buses and trains and walked and walked. And it was great. We were young and clueless and we had great guides - and we learned how to travel. <BR> After that I traveled only independently until 5 years ago when my parents wanted to treat us to a trip to Great Britain with them. They are vigorous but elderly. They wanted total no-muss, no-fuss so they could concentrate all their energies on the sights and sounds, and they also wanted to travel fairly upscale. Remember, those who are young, that hassling luggage, getting cabs, even finding every restaurant every day, navigating to each site, etc., really does require energy - lots of it. Tours, which take care of so much for you, extend the travel life of older people tremendously! So we gulped and took a Tauck Tour. It was just great! We were, not surprisingly, two of the youngest people on the trip. But it was beautifully done. The tour guide was incredibly well informed about history, art, politics, local economies, food, shopping etc. If you didn't want to participate on any given day or with any particular activity, you didn't have to - and the guide would help you arrange anything special you needed. The accomodations were far more luxurious than we would ever have done independently, because Tauck books wholesale blocks of rooms - and it was just a great treat. The four of us had a fabulous time that we still reminisce over. <BR> I wouldn't want to do it every time - we're doing our own thing this summer, but I would definitely take a group tour again if the time and circumstances dictated it. <BR> Happy travels one and all!

Hello Tour Fans, <BR>Have any of you recently been on a Trafalgar Tour of Spain, Portugal and Morocco. What were your experiences. Did you get to stay at the hotels that they advertise such as the Castellana Intercontinental in Madrid, Occidental in Granada, Costa del Sol in Carmen etc. How was the arrangement and quality of the food? Did you have enough time to see the sights and also have free time at the various spots? What did you think of their transportation and the guide. <BR>Your input will be of great help to me in planning my trip. <BR>Thank you. <BR>Kris

To Kansas: I have never heard such close minded, self-centered, ignorant garbage. When you go to Europe (on a tour or independently), you are in THEIR country!! You should be speaking THEIR language, which I'm sure you never even tried. So until you speak French in France, German in Germany, etc., you have no right to criticize their English, which they probably speak better than you. Also, if it wasn't for the Europeans, you and your ancestors wouldn't be in this great country which was settled by the Europeans. So unless you are a native American Indian, you have no right to criticize the Europeans. I shall not go on any further because I don't want to waste any more time on an ignoramus.

I have to agree with Caryn: My above comments when this was first posted only meant to state that I like independent travel over tour groups. I LOVE to make travel plans as it's one of my favorite hobbies. I COMPLETELY understand those that can't travel independently and opt to go on tour groups. But I can't understand people like Kansas. Why go to a foreign country and not make an effort in their language, try their foods, learn their cultures, see their wonderful places??? If your're not interested in these things, I'd suggest you should stay home.

Dear caryn and Monica: <BR>You tell me to stay home. Well, since as you can see from my post above < I fought and died for my country.> And since I am dead I don't travel too much anymore. Tis a shame I'm dead or I could laugh at you not understanding sarcasm.

There is only one reason to dislike tours - and charter tourism in general: They spoil the place. (They also teach local entrepreneurs to lower the quality of food etc - and/or increase the prices.) <BR>It's a great way to learn to travel when you're young, and it's wonderful that older people can have the opportunity to see something of the world. (But going on one's own is a revelation, if you've started out with group travel.) <BR>Tours just bother the rest of us, because they tend to take up so much space, making it impossible to enjoy a place abroad, once a tour group arrives. <BR>Anyway, those of you who go on tours: How about shouting a little less, being less pushy and telling your guides (they're often the worst) to show a little respect for the local people, the site and the other tourists? It must be possible to go on a tour and act cultured. <BR>Have a lot of nice travels. <BR>Jens <BR>PS: Somebody above said something like "in most countries people speak English". I just wonder where that person has travelled. I can get along in English, French and German plus the Scandinavian languages, but there are still a lot of places where this doesn't work, even in Europe. Nevertheless, it's almost always possible to communicate, if you treat people in a way so that they want to communicate with you. I think this is the clue to why so many English-speakers complain about the attitude of the French (for inst.) towards tourists. They haven't made the effort. (By the way: Does anybody have a clue as to why French tour groups seem less obnoxious than most other nations?)

Jens, I am a little mystified at your comment about tour guides - any tour I have ever done has had locals as guides and they are very careful to ensure those on their tour do not upset anyone. There are loud people everywhere in any situation, not just tours; it's just a part of life, no matter how much we dislike it.

We travel a lot and thank God that we are able bodied and speak enough of the languages of the countries we visit most, but that will not always be the case. When we are 80 and still in our right minds (hopefully) we might need to take those tours that we don't need right now. The university alumni sponsored ones seem to be the best. There used to be very interesting tours, including lectures at embassies, offered by the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations. I assure you they weren't for chickens looking for Holiday Inns! I would guess that there are obnoxious tours and very rewardiing ones. What really shocks and dismays me, however, is how nasty and critical some of you can become when the word "tour" is mentioned. This snapping at each other and oneupsmanship isn't getting anyone anywhere. You are just wasting time talking about mostly drivel. (I apologize to the few who have answered thoughtfully) <BR>

I've been traveling around the world since 1946 on tours and on my own. It isn't simply a matter of whether you like tours or like to go on your own, it's a matter of what is best for you for that particular trip. For example, I always advise people going to Europe for the first time to take a "Grand Europe" tour. You cover a lot of territory and see a lot of things but, most importantly, it gives you an idea of what you want to do in the future. Same thing applies to other areas like the Mediterranean and the Far East. Don't tie yourself down to a concept, think about what is best for you, at that time, on that trip.

I am 51 years old and will probably someday have to resort to taking a tour, but for now, traveling independently is the only way to go. I have been on a couple of day trip tours on vacation over the years and maybe its the age of those people but they usually drive me crazy. I can't imagine spending a week or two with them.

I just recently returned from a tour and I loved it! Why? Because I met and bonded with 48 people who will remain very close to my heart for the rest of my life! I would never have met these people if I didn't go on the tour. <BR> <BR>My new "Trafalgar family" is made up of "siblings" from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, US, South Africa and England. The youngest is 11 years old and the oldest is 81 (I'm somewhere in between and so is half of my "family"). It's been a month and a half since the tour ended but I still hear from 40 of them everyday - either by phone, e-mail, regular mail or with a visit. That's why I loved my tour!!!

We went on a 27 day Trafalgar tour to Great Britian and Ireland in June and had a great time. We got to see and experience far more than if we had tried to do it on our own. Next summer we are going back for two weeks on our own to spend more time in Edinburgh, London, York, Stratford and Brighton before joining a 14 day tour in France.

I enjoy taking a tour to an area where I have never been before, particularly if I have a limited time frame.In 1995,my husband and I went on Trafalgar's Best of Spain and France.It was a marvelous,thorough tour and no other company combined those two countries (usually Spain and Portugal). This summer we went on a tour to Greece with a cruise of the Greek isles and Turkey. I highly recommend the tour itinerary , and I recommend everyone to visit Greece while you can still do lots and walking and climbing! I do think that seeing a much as we did would be difficult on one's own! If thinking of a tour,ask questions of your travel agent and the tour company...we learned the hard way what it is like if the brochure does not advertise"fully escorted." Brendan Tours has a wonderful itinerary,but they do not give personal attention as their brochure indicates.If you want to know more,e-mail me.

We have travelled to Austria, Belgium, <BR>U.K., Estonia, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, France, Norway, Scotland,<BR>Ireland, Spain and Switzerland.<BR><BR>During this period of our life, it was<BR>most exciting to plan each and every day of our trip. We have had good and bad experiences throughout the years.<BR><BR>However, we are now in our 70s and guess<BR>what? We find it much to our liking to<BR>have somebody else do the planning (if the itinerary is acceptable) We are able to find tour groups that give us the opportunity of having "Free" days and we plan them as we please.<BR><BR>I homestayed with a family in England a few years ago and to this day we are the very best of<BR>friends. We manage to visit back and forth and correspond often.<BR><BR>Next, we find that in some European countries, it is NOT possible to rent a car at our age. How about that?<BR><BR>We have met many wonderful individuals during our "TOUR" travel groups. Actually, we see and learn more than we did on our own. We are also housed in<BR>top notch hotels.<BR><BR>So you see, tour groups are not always the worst way to travel. I must admit<BR>though, not every trip was the best.<BR>We have traveled too many years and we <BR>are able to compare one group against another.

I took the typical 2 week European tour with my parents just after high school many years back. We did the "if it's Tuesday it must be Belgium" something like that meaning we were hitting a different city every other day. <BR><BR>Being with 30 or so fellow tour members reminded me of being back in high school. You're thrown together because you all have one thing in common. Then because you see each other each day for 2 weeks, guess what? You get to know each other and become friends and you even get to each other's bad habits. Like this single guy who would always be late no matter what and delay us. <BR><BR>The bad thing about taking tours is that you lose alot of time just traveling from one place to the next. If you want to see one place in detail, go independently.

Well this has opened a wealth of personal opinion so I am itching to add mine. Personally I would not enjoy a tour. I don't like crowds and don't enjoy being around the "typical" humans. I am one of the few people that truly enjoys being totally alone. My greatest memories of traveling are silent moments where I felt that I had found something totally hidden: an old church where only the care taker was present, an ancient graveyard, a beautiful park or garden. I have enjoyed meeting people. When they are someone that I don't' enjoy their company I have had the choice to get far away from them. I would be afraid that on a tour I would be stuck with a putz that thinks of me as his best friend for the next 10 days. <BR><BR>But on the other hand I know that I am different than most people. You see it every day. People like to go in groups. You can take a few people and form a line to a trash can and people will get in the line just because there is a line. Why do they like groups? I don't know. I don't know because I am not like them. <BR><BR>Lets face it. We all like different things. If we all liked the same things we would all be in the same place at the same time and that wouldn't work out for me, because I don't like crowds. <BR><BR>If you like tours take them. If you don't, don't. Who cares. (I guess a lot of people do care or there wouldn't be so many responses to this thread)

Bjoern <BR>na, I do the same thing I stay in dorms for a couple of days then goo too a decent hotel too chill out walk around naked what ever.. anyways I TOLD YOU ALL there is a huge fiud between the backpackers and tourist..<BR>but those tourist with the 500 pound camaras, fanny packs. and floral shirts. do anoy me for some reason.. may'be I secretly wish I were like them. NA.

I take tours because I love going to somewhat remote, less commonly visited parts of frequently visited countries, BUT I don't want to drive, and it is not so convenient getting to the smaller places by public transportation. So, I look for small group walking/hiking tours and other small group special interest tours that explore the countryside, smaller towns, and sites that are not accessible by public transportation. I usually combine a one-week walking tour with several days of independent travel.