logos999

>how idiotic and wasteful it is to spend

It money well spent and a good investment into Europes future. It shows the mutual respect for eachother. Shows respect for each peoples identity, freedom and self determination...

laverendrye

Spygirl: It may be more efficient for the EU to have fewer official languages, but not necessarily more "rational".

Keep in mind that the EU is a union of sovereign states, and that one of the costs of building and maintaining that union is official recognition of the languages of those states. So what if it costs a couple of billion or so. That's small potatoes compared, say, to the common agricultural policy, which I would argue is a less rational expenditure.

How do you think Italians or Spaniards, for example, would view the union if their languages were not officially recognized (italy and France are roughly equal in population)? So if they are then recognized, what about the other languages?

As I wrote earlier, what might seem "rational" in a US-centric view does not look so rational from other points of view.

Spygirl

Actually, lavendrye, it is not at all a "US-centric" viewpoint, as you put it. It is very much a critical problem facing the EU at this time, and I can tell you that this problematic issue of languages has been raised repeatedly, way back in the 80's even- by leading professors across the continent who specialize in European law.

hanl

"...to have to wait for one decision from the European Ct. of Human Rights, for example, must now take a very, very long time."

I'm not sure if I follow your logic, Spygirl. Why would a decision take longer because it has to be translated into more languages?

logos999

"leding professors" can discuss many things and make suggestions. However it is not really a thing which anybody responsible would seriously consider. Only for intellectual discussion.

Spygirl

In order to find out what a decision says, how it affects the member states, how the member states will have to conform their individual laws in order to harmonize with the court's opinion, the decision has to be PRINTED OUT-so that lawyers/legislators from the member states can read and absorb it- the decisions have to be translated -carefully-

Given this huge backlog, the tremendous amount of time to translate just one pivotal decision into 20 LANGUAGES-those who are waiting on the decision may not know what it says, and how it affects their rights for a long time-this can be detrimental in any number of ways.

hanl

I agree that translating a document into another language is a time-consuming process.

However, translation work into different languages tends to be done simultaneously. In theory, therefore, it won't take any longer to translate a document into 17 languages than into 3 languages, as the translators for each language will all be working at the same time. Of course, it is more costly, as more staff are required.

Also, what often happens within the EU is that priority documents (especially urgent ones) are translated into English, French and German as the first priority, so that they can be consulted ASAP by those that need the information. The other languages follow later.

strawberry

Personally as an English speaker I don't really care if documents have to be translated into 20 other languages. So what if it takes time? I would rather live in a Europe where there are many differnt languages & cultures to explore, than one big country speaking the same language. BORING!!!!!!!!
Infact many of the Euro countries are constantly irritated by rediculous rules that come from Brussels, which they are already concerned is diluting each culture into one.
Spygirl, I understand what you are saying but I think you are missing the point...

Spygirl

Strawberry-my "point" as it were, is merely one facet of a multi-faceted problem -I mentioned above the 200 page proposed EU Constitution-that's another-a Babel of languages in this context, in this burgeoning bureaucracy, serves no one well.

travlintoes

Interesting distinction too between American English and UK English. I've checked out a few jobs teaching the English language in foreigh countries. More than one of them expressed a definite preference for UK (Proper) English.

On the other hand, Brazil (at least in 2000) preferred American English. It was both strange and comforting to grocery shop at Angelo's and hear American rock 'n roll over the sound system!
Especially when 99.9 percent of the general population spoke only Portuguese. Brazilians are a wonderful people--at least in the Santa Catarina region. I don't know about now, but 5 years ago, the language schools preferred to teach American English--at least that was my experience.

Personally, I do not look forward to a "one world" where all beings speak, look, and act the same. Scary!! I absolutely love the diversities in cultures, peoples and languages. IMHO, that is what motivates me to travel. How about you?

logos999

Your native language is part of your identity. You dialect tells people from which part of a country you are, from which local region and you will even find differences between neighboring towns. High German is used in Germany to make sure people can communicate with eachother, but at home everybody speaks his language. It has always been like this in Europe and its part of eurpean history and heritage.
A document translated into high German, is not translated into all the other German dialects and languages. There arent any translations into Lower German, Bavarian (consisting of Upper Bavaria, Lower Bawarian and Tyrolean), Svabian, Saxonian etc. (Luxemburgian is the exeption, because its an independent country).
Asterix comics are tranlated into all these languages ;-). You cannot translate into all languages, but you can try your best.

strawberry

Yes, but the EUROPEAN UNION would not be a UNION if we all started speaking English, would it? It is many different countries trying to work together but at the same time keep their indvidual identity. You will always have conflcits of interest, but if it were such a bad arrangement then there would not be so many people wanting to join up.
Also, if you are used to dealing with many different languages day to day, as most Europeans are, it's not a problem.
In theory your idea seems fine, but in practice we may as well be robots. Hitler tried it and failed.

rex

<<pare down the number of official languages to the three or so that the majority of the EU citizens speak-and that would probably work out to English, German and French>>

Do you really think that there is a sizable number of Greeks or Turks who speak one of these three languages?

The issue of a "common languages" and how the EU can function is, admittedly, quite separate and apart from my initial question.

But it is not hard to find pockets of Europeans - - even in Holland - - where NO ONE speaks any of these three languages.

logos999

You initial question implied that there could be a country on the continent to adopt English as an added language.
The answer to this is quite simple:
None..

strawberry

Going back to you original question rex, I don't think English will become an 'official' language in any EU country any time soon. However it is the best way for different nations to communicate. For example French & Germans are far more likely to speak in English now due to the amount of exposure to the language that they have.
English will continue to grow but I dont think it will ever be considered 'that countries' language.

elina

I would say that there are millions of people in EU who donīt understand English, French or German. I understand English and French and even bits of German, but if I had to vote on EU constitution I would first want to read it in Finnish. That is the only language I am confident with when things turn difficult (= law, technical things, philisophy etc.)

logos999

If you want to go to college in Bavaria, you are required to learn French or Latin for at least 7 years.

walkinaround

it's not really interesting to me what the EU does as far as official language.

however, if we are talking about language use/learning trends in europe, there is hardly a discussion as this has been solved in practice...learn your own language, guard it, talk it at home, talk it among your own.

secondly, know english so you can communicate with other europeans that don't speak your native tongue, and with people on other continents. if you have a professional career, your job depends on it!

logos999

Donīt over estimate the importance of English, you can have a good career without speaking a single word. It helps, but for the 80.000$ job it`s not really needed.

BTilke

And of course, with European companies that do business in English, they have to decide if they want to go for American or British English (mostly for written communication). I worked at a medical communications agency in Switzerland staffed mostly by Brits. One day, the British owner called everyone together and announced that from that point on, all journal articles, posters, abstracts, etc. would have to be written in American English. Groans and mutters of protest all around. For the following few days, I was the recipient of many dirty looks (I had nothing to do with the decision). The change was driven by the preferences of the company's largest clients, which were also based in Europe, but had significant business in the U.S.