Fiona

Currently touring Europe and one of the place I hoped to visit is the old city of Leghorn (Italy).. I can't seem to find it on my map however. Can anyone help?

wes fowler

Fiona, <BR>In Italy, "Leghorn" is Livorno on the coast a few miles south of Pisa.

Fiona

Found it - thanks wes. Out of interest , when did the name change and why?

Al Godon

And while you are at it, I doubt if you will find Florence either. It usually shows as Firenza.

KT

Or even Firenze.

kam

Think leghorn is just an English translation--a bit like why do we call it Vienna?

Christina

Look Fiona, you Americans do spelling it how you want and we Italians spelling other things like we want. Leghorn NEVER existed in Italy! It's your own translation. You will find Firenze, you will find Genova, Napoli, Palermo, Roma, Venezia, Milano...... and so on. Fiona when you want to travel in Italy just make sure to know the Names of the Italian towns in the Italian language, because if not you will find yourself in troubles. No Italian could help you to find the right spot (exclude the big big towns). I don't want to seem rude but please respect my good advicec. <BR> <BR>Tanti saluti <BR> <BR>Christina

Al Godon

OOPS. I did hit the a rather than the e for Firenze. I will blame it on my keyboard; the keys are too close together. There is a fellow I know who tours Europe by the mile, and picks his destinations by the population. He figures the larger the city, the more important it is. So on a trip to Italy, he decided he wanted to visit Turin. <BR>He wanted to see the famous Shroud of Turin and thought if he went there, he could see it -- like it was hanging up in a public square somewhere. At any rate, he drove around and decided Turin wasn't where he was because all he saw was signs for Torino. <BR>I have often wondered how the English language maps decided to use such names as Turin for Torino or Leghorn for Livorno or Naples for Napoli. At least the National Geographic Atlas of the World uses Livorno, Venezia, Milano, etc. But "Leghorn" is in parentheses right under the native spelling. And the atlas also uses the spelling of Nürnberg for the city in Germany. <BR> <BR>But the one I still get something of chuckle out of is about the kid down the street who wrote a paper for school on the Leaning Tower of Pizza. He didn't say if it was pepperoni or mushroom. <BR>

lola

It's esp. difficult to travel in a country with more than one language, such as Belgium, where the roadsigns switch from Flemish to French without any notice--and occasionally you'll find English thrown in to make 3 names for the same town. Keep this in mind as you travel and read your maps ahead of time to make sure you know where and what you are traveling to.

xxx

Yikes! I hope I never need Christina's help while in Italy. ;-)

christina

oh là là! <BR> <BR>i just wanted to be friendly but maybe choosed the wrong words????? as american or british english isn't my mothertounge i think in the future i will write in other languages so you guys don't feel yourself treaten bad. <BR> <BR>sorry.

Al Godon

Christina: If you write in a language other than English, most people who visit this Forum will not be able to understand what you write. <BR>Knowing how my friend Piero expresses himself in English, I paid no attention to how you said anything. In retrospect, using the word "Look" as an imperative at the start of the response strikes most of Americans as indicating a certain amount of exasperation, or even a little anger. <BR>But I am with some of the others, why in the world English maps use names like Leghorn is beyond me. Of course, there are some allowances that must be made. <BR>The people of Nepal do not call Mount Everest by that name.

christina

ciao al! <BR> <BR>ahh! well it's really not easy to translate the italian language in the right english words......but i'm still learning! i figured out that only the english named towns don't have a particular "translation". i told fiona, that we italians do have our spellings for towns (like "monaco in bavaria" what means for you english speaking people "munich" and for the germans it's still "münchen") but chicago or san francisco, london, liverpool etc. is allways spelled in the original language. funny not? i just wanted to say to fiona that it will be much more easier for herself to know the exact name in italian for the towns, because to travel without could really give you problems! (for example there is san miniato al monte and san miniato the first is a monastry/church here in firenze, the second a town outside). <BR> <BR>well, i hope i could explane me better now and moved away the missunderstandings. <BR> <BR>tanti saluti <BR> <BR>christina

Fiona

Thanks for all your replies. In fact I had been aware of all the others you cited , except Florence since they are so close to the English version. Silly me - but I had been looking for "Leghorno/ Leghorna" on my map and on road signs. <BR> <BR>Christina! - Since you live in Italy perhaps I could ask you another totally unconnected to the above. I was in Rome a few days ago and did one of their city tours. I had taken my video camera along (of course!!!) and at each site where we stopped, I asked the tour guide if he could speak very slowly and clearly into the microphone in English so that I could record both the picture and have the commentary at the same time. She did this for a while but after a while I noticed that she was getting a little irritated. I would love to do this in Pisa and of course Leghorn, but I would want the same reaction. Is it that this sort of thing isn't done in Italy? <BR> <BR> <BR>

Fiona

oops - that's "..would NOT want the same reaction.."!

Al Godon

To get down to basics, I think anyone who has learned a foreign language knows that mistakes in expression are very, very common. Therefore they are, or should be, more tolerant of non-native speakers. People who know no language other than their own usually don't appreciate the difficulty involved in learning another language well. <BR>I rarely correct a non native English speaker except when he or she is saying something that is totally misleading in the direction of serious consequences or the phrase is potentially embarassing because people are laughing at the speaker. <BR>

John

Yeah, well, I'm still looking for Londres, Nuevo York, and Edimburgo.

KT

John -- To find Londres, just take a train through the Channel Tunnel from Parigi.

parsimony

Yes, and Wienerschnitzel is a suburb of Wien, just north of the Danube. <BR>And Edimburgo is just north of Londres. <BR>Just take the train from Kings X in Londres. Get off after 4 hours and 20 minutes, provided the train has stopped.

christina

ciao fiona! <BR> <BR>well, i think that a lot of common tour guides got irritated about that talk into the microfon. and yes, it's not done in italy. but! a tour guide is working with tourists and is payed for that. <BR>but this is my own opinion. i'm a guide (an indipendet, private local guide) but i really love my work and i think that's the difference. i had people with cams and they asked me to say something, and for me this wasn't a problem. for a normal guide there could be this, that they have a huge amount of people who all wants the same and that's why they get bored. but however, i think if they want to do the job as tour operator they must learn to respect the tourists wishes. <BR> <BR>i hope this didn't sound crazy, if yes it's all because the heat here (we do have around 100 farenheit now and we do have very rare air conditioning...) <BR> <BR>tanti saluti <BR> <BR>christina