where to study abroad
Oct 4th, 2008, 03:02 PM
#21
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If cold weather was a problem it would be good to know if you plan to go for a summer or a winter semester. In summer, almost all of your destinations are okay. In winter most will be cold, rainy, and miserable - when you pick a location north of the Alps. Only Portugal and Malta would be nice in winter, when weather is an issue.
I hope Iceland is already off your list. If not, think ice and polar circle.
Meeting friends definetely is an issue, especially abroad. With regard to that, you may want to keep in mind that many European unis are far less focused on campus activities. Students live (mostly) off campus, and lead their lives as independent adults. Fraternities or sororities are not common.
And size also matters: for example, Cologne Uni has more than 40K students, and Economics is not a small faculty there.
I don't want to blow it completely out of perspective, but I find university life (at least as I experienced it) here somewhat different. Most of my American fellow students (and there were a lot where I studied) picked Berlin for reasons of independence and a not exactly conservative lifestyle.
I hope Iceland is already off your list. If not, think ice and polar circle.
Meeting friends definetely is an issue, especially abroad. With regard to that, you may want to keep in mind that many European unis are far less focused on campus activities. Students live (mostly) off campus, and lead their lives as independent adults. Fraternities or sororities are not common.
And size also matters: for example, Cologne Uni has more than 40K students, and Economics is not a small faculty there.
I don't want to blow it completely out of perspective, but I find university life (at least as I experienced it) here somewhat different. Most of my American fellow students (and there were a lot where I studied) picked Berlin for reasons of independence and a not exactly conservative lifestyle.
Oct 4th, 2008, 05:20 PM
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Hi Lauren,
You didn't ask me about Malta but I'll chime in anyway!
The people are delightful, warm, and friendly. But I wouldn't recommend Malta for a semester abroad since it doesn't offer the diversity of other places. There's not a lot to do or see there and it's a homogeneous environment. It's very Catholic, very much like living in a village, and the landscape looks much the same over the island as everything is built from sandstone (Malta's only natural product). My first impression of Malta was that everything was beige.
There's not a lot of trees or plants since there is no water on the island. Nor will you see livestock grazing for the same reason. So you won't see a horse or a cow in the open. You will see lots of cats.
The capital city, Valletta, is very small. You can stroll the length of the town in 15 minutes. This is the biggest of the towns. The only nightlife for young people is in the northeast part of the island and I'm not sure how late the buses run. One night we left the restaurant in Valletta just before 11:00 and caught the last bus back to our hotel (it was the last bus to anywhere in the bus depot). Let me know where the university is on Malta and I'll tell you what I know about the area.
I have a trip report (very long) I can send you that gives my perspective of the island and information on sights.
You didn't ask me about Malta but I'll chime in anyway!
The people are delightful, warm, and friendly. But I wouldn't recommend Malta for a semester abroad since it doesn't offer the diversity of other places. There's not a lot to do or see there and it's a homogeneous environment. It's very Catholic, very much like living in a village, and the landscape looks much the same over the island as everything is built from sandstone (Malta's only natural product). My first impression of Malta was that everything was beige.
There's not a lot of trees or plants since there is no water on the island. Nor will you see livestock grazing for the same reason. So you won't see a horse or a cow in the open. You will see lots of cats.
The capital city, Valletta, is very small. You can stroll the length of the town in 15 minutes. This is the biggest of the towns. The only nightlife for young people is in the northeast part of the island and I'm not sure how late the buses run. One night we left the restaurant in Valletta just before 11:00 and caught the last bus back to our hotel (it was the last bus to anywhere in the bus depot). Let me know where the university is on Malta and I'll tell you what I know about the area.
I have a trip report (very long) I can send you that gives my perspective of the island and information on sights.
Oct 4th, 2008, 05:46 PM
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Lauren, My daughter studied in Germany for a year; one semester in Tubingen and the second in Heidleberg. Both have many international students so although she had studied German and worked hard to become fluent while she was there, she could have managed to a certain extent without it. Heidelberg has a big American presence.
Oct 4th, 2008, 08:03 PM
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Hi, Lauren.
I am a huge fan of studying abroad and wish I'd had the opportunity to do it (made up for it big time in later life, so no big deal), and I agree it might be a good idea to stretch yourself and do the non-English-speaking route if you can find an appropriate program. There is nothing better, IMO, for a young person today than to be more than monolingual. And to immerse yourself in another culture.
That said, my daughter, who's a senior at Berkeley, is on Semester At Sea right now, and I can't think of a more amazing program than that. I leave Thursday to join her in India. She's already been to South America and Africa and still has a half-dozen ports of call in Asia and again South America before returning home. It's not a program that requires language, for obvious reasons, but it is incredible in its scope and the opportunities it offers to see the world. It's not cheap (and I found out today that there is a $250 fuel fee now being assessed at every port they stop at, which raises the price by $2500), but look into it.
My daughter is an international relations/political science major. It was hard for her to mesh the Semester at Sea program with her requirements to graduate from Berkeley, and she may end up having to take a summer course and not graduate in exactly 4 years from Berkeley, but boy, Semester at Sea was the most amazing thing she has ever done.
Good luck to you, whatever you decide to do. Having kids your age, I love hearing from young people who want to explore the world.
I am a huge fan of studying abroad and wish I'd had the opportunity to do it (made up for it big time in later life, so no big deal), and I agree it might be a good idea to stretch yourself and do the non-English-speaking route if you can find an appropriate program. There is nothing better, IMO, for a young person today than to be more than monolingual. And to immerse yourself in another culture.
That said, my daughter, who's a senior at Berkeley, is on Semester At Sea right now, and I can't think of a more amazing program than that. I leave Thursday to join her in India. She's already been to South America and Africa and still has a half-dozen ports of call in Asia and again South America before returning home. It's not a program that requires language, for obvious reasons, but it is incredible in its scope and the opportunities it offers to see the world. It's not cheap (and I found out today that there is a $250 fuel fee now being assessed at every port they stop at, which raises the price by $2500), but look into it.
My daughter is an international relations/political science major. It was hard for her to mesh the Semester at Sea program with her requirements to graduate from Berkeley, and she may end up having to take a summer course and not graduate in exactly 4 years from Berkeley, but boy, Semester at Sea was the most amazing thing she has ever done.
Good luck to you, whatever you decide to do. Having kids your age, I love hearing from young people who want to explore the world.
Oct 4th, 2008, 11:04 PM
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I would study in a county which affords accessibility to other countries. Visiting other places is part of the experience.
I would not go to Iceland. It is a ruggedly beautiful country with 100% literacy rate, a large English speaking population, and a high alcoholism rate. The winter nights are incredibly long.
The Portuguese are warm but morose. If you speak Spainish you will be able read some Portuguese but the pronounciation is very different. It is a wonderful cuntry with a fine cuisine.
Malta is the size of Manhattan. We had friends who are Maltese and they lived in the capitol but had a summer house on the other end of island which not that far away. It is one of the most invaded island in the world with a strong cross pollenation of people and cultures.
And for the full immersion of a European language and cultural expeience I might skip England, Scotland, and Ireland although to live in any one of those places would be thoroughly enjoyable.
I would not go to Iceland. It is a ruggedly beautiful country with 100% literacy rate, a large English speaking population, and a high alcoholism rate. The winter nights are incredibly long.
The Portuguese are warm but morose. If you speak Spainish you will be able read some Portuguese but the pronounciation is very different. It is a wonderful cuntry with a fine cuisine.
Malta is the size of Manhattan. We had friends who are Maltese and they lived in the capitol but had a summer house on the other end of island which not that far away. It is one of the most invaded island in the world with a strong cross pollenation of people and cultures.
And for the full immersion of a European language and cultural expeience I might skip England, Scotland, and Ireland although to live in any one of those places would be thoroughly enjoyable.
Oct 5th, 2008, 12:03 AM
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For countries which provide easy access to other European countries you could choose Holland. Excellent rail, road and air links with the rest of Europe. friendly, mostly pretty conservative 9with a small c) people, English is widely spoken.
Dutch is not hat hard to learn in my experience - getting the Dutch to allow you to speak it is another matter. It is a very phonetic language and once you understand that it is easy.
Do you know which University it would be in the Netherlands?
To give you an idea of costs here:
Students here get a grant of €255 per month, which is usually supplemented by parents or a loan to around €500. They all seem to survive well on that - paying rent, socialising and buying food and books from it. That doesn't include the fees for uni though - that is €1538 a year and is either paid by Mum and Dad or via a loan. Oh and they also get free travel on public transport within the Netherlands, either during the week or at weekends. You wouldn't qualify for these grants but it does give you an idea of how much is needed a month to live on.
Dutch is not hat hard to learn in my experience - getting the Dutch to allow you to speak it is another matter. It is a very phonetic language and once you understand that it is easy.
Do you know which University it would be in the Netherlands?
To give you an idea of costs here:
Students here get a grant of €255 per month, which is usually supplemented by parents or a loan to around €500. They all seem to survive well on that - paying rent, socialising and buying food and books from it. That doesn't include the fees for uni though - that is €1538 a year and is either paid by Mum and Dad or via a loan. Oh and they also get free travel on public transport within the Netherlands, either during the week or at weekends. You wouldn't qualify for these grants but it does give you an idea of how much is needed a month to live on.
Oct 5th, 2008, 02:09 AM
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I agree that the Netherlands would seem to fit many of the things you are looking for. My husband and I are living in Amsterdam for a year and I keep thinking what a perfect place it is for English-speaking students who aren't fluent in another language.
Here are the advantages to the Netherlands, as I see them:
1) It's a country with a foreign language, but since most people speak English, you can communicate when you really need to - so it's the best of both worlds in a way. And since so many people speak English you can have real, meaningful adult conversations with people in cafe's, etc. discussing nuanced, complex, and interesting subjects. Not just the 5-year-old-level conversations you have in a foreign language unless you're VERY fluent. So you can really learn more directly about what Dutch people think about things. Our college-aged DD is studying in Paris for this year, and even though she speaks French pretty well, it is still emotionally exhausting and limiting to not be completely fluent. And she was told by people who've done it that one semester is just not enough time to really make much of a dent in a foreign language, so since you only have one semester I think you should take heed of that advice.
2) Good location - much of Europe is fairly close - Paris is only 4 hours by train (soon only 3), Germany and London ditto, and Italy, Spain, and more are easily reachable by plane or train.
3) Friendly, straightforward, intelligent, good-humored people (a generalization I know, but one that we have found to be totally true so far). The Dutch people have been a real pleasure to interact with - it's very easy to strike up conversations and they usually have something interesting to say!
4) At least in Amsterdam, there are many young people from all over Europe and the world. My husband is a professor in the States who is doing an academic sabbatical here. We are living in an apartment building that houses some visiting faculty and many PhD students from Germany, Croatia, South Africa, Poland, China, various African countries, etc. English is the common language. A real miniature UN just in this building.
Disadvantages to the Netherlands:
1) Amsterdam may not be as cheap as some other cities in Europe - don't really know for sure and don't know about other Dutch cities.
2) The weather in the winter evidently consists mainly of cold, wind, and rain with a liberal sprinkling of short days and darkness since it is so far north. (But consider the source here: we're Californians so are major weather wimps.) You can always head to Greece for the holidays. ;->
Here are the advantages to the Netherlands, as I see them:
1) It's a country with a foreign language, but since most people speak English, you can communicate when you really need to - so it's the best of both worlds in a way. And since so many people speak English you can have real, meaningful adult conversations with people in cafe's, etc. discussing nuanced, complex, and interesting subjects. Not just the 5-year-old-level conversations you have in a foreign language unless you're VERY fluent. So you can really learn more directly about what Dutch people think about things. Our college-aged DD is studying in Paris for this year, and even though she speaks French pretty well, it is still emotionally exhausting and limiting to not be completely fluent. And she was told by people who've done it that one semester is just not enough time to really make much of a dent in a foreign language, so since you only have one semester I think you should take heed of that advice.
2) Good location - much of Europe is fairly close - Paris is only 4 hours by train (soon only 3), Germany and London ditto, and Italy, Spain, and more are easily reachable by plane or train.
3) Friendly, straightforward, intelligent, good-humored people (a generalization I know, but one that we have found to be totally true so far). The Dutch people have been a real pleasure to interact with - it's very easy to strike up conversations and they usually have something interesting to say!
4) At least in Amsterdam, there are many young people from all over Europe and the world. My husband is a professor in the States who is doing an academic sabbatical here. We are living in an apartment building that houses some visiting faculty and many PhD students from Germany, Croatia, South Africa, Poland, China, various African countries, etc. English is the common language. A real miniature UN just in this building.
Disadvantages to the Netherlands:
1) Amsterdam may not be as cheap as some other cities in Europe - don't really know for sure and don't know about other Dutch cities.
2) The weather in the winter evidently consists mainly of cold, wind, and rain with a liberal sprinkling of short days and darkness since it is so far north. (But consider the source here: we're Californians so are major weather wimps.) You can always head to Greece for the holidays. ;->
Oct 5th, 2008, 02:38 AM
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Seeing you've ruled out Spain I'll put a good word in for Portugal. If you have a little Spanish it isn't so hard. It's the pronunciation that differs most and the spelling system is somewhat different. Reading Portuguese is easy once you understand the spelling.
Our daughter spent a year studying in Spain and did a semester of Portuguese [via Spanish] and did her major assignment on Spanish-Portuguese relations, which required reading a lot of Portuguese.
Portugal is warmer and arguably more interesting and certainly cheaper than most countries to the north. The people are very friendly and English is spoken more than it is in Spain, but not to the extent that you wouldn't be using Portuguese daily. [Someone told me that TV shows in English are subtitled in Portugal rather than dubbed as they are in Spain, and that's why...but I'm not sure of that.]
Also Portuguese is more widely spoken across the globe than most other European languages because of Portugal's colonial past...and Brazil's not so far from Texas!
Our daughter spent a year studying in Spain and did a semester of Portuguese [via Spanish] and did her major assignment on Spanish-Portuguese relations, which required reading a lot of Portuguese.
Portugal is warmer and arguably more interesting and certainly cheaper than most countries to the north. The people are very friendly and English is spoken more than it is in Spain, but not to the extent that you wouldn't be using Portuguese daily. [Someone told me that TV shows in English are subtitled in Portugal rather than dubbed as they are in Spain, and that's why...but I'm not sure of that.]
Also Portuguese is more widely spoken across the globe than most other European languages because of Portugal's colonial past...and Brazil's not so far from Texas!
Oct 5th, 2008, 04:53 AM
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"What do you think students do to live in European countries? Beg on the streets? "
altamira, you are frigging rude. When you're paying in DOLLARS and living in Europe, it doesn't matter whether it's a hotel or a ham sandwich-the exchange rate DOES matter.
Lauren, I think now that you've narrowed the field, maybe it's time to start looking at the details of the programs in each you're considering. Exact location within the country will make a difference to your ability to travel and quality of life. I'd also look at how much free time you would actually have to travel for each, if that's one of the primary goals of the adventure.
altamira, you are frigging rude. When you're paying in DOLLARS and living in Europe, it doesn't matter whether it's a hotel or a ham sandwich-the exchange rate DOES matter.
Lauren, I think now that you've narrowed the field, maybe it's time to start looking at the details of the programs in each you're considering. Exact location within the country will make a difference to your ability to travel and quality of life. I'd also look at how much free time you would actually have to travel for each, if that's one of the primary goals of the adventure.
Oct 5th, 2008, 06:10 AM
#30
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Also Portuguese is more widely spoken across the globe than most other European languages because of Portugal's colonial past...and Brazil's not so far from Texas!
Basically it is Brazil, whose idioms are often different Portugal, while the other countries are Macau, Mozambique, and Angola.
Basically it is Brazil, whose idioms are often different Portugal, while the other countries are Macau, Mozambique, and Angola.
Oct 5th, 2008, 07:20 AM
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FYI Lauren - I understood your plan and questions from your initial post. My son just graduated college and my daughter just entered. I'm aware of how most of these study abroad programs work. In most disciplines knowledge of a foreign language is irrelevant because the classes take place in English. The overseas schools are satellites or affiliates of the US colleges. Obviously you were simply trying to get opinions regarding the "best" places to go to and to solicit opinions. I'm not sure why people read your question any differently. Welcome to Fodor's.
Anyway, my preference will always be for Germany. Wonderful peole, delightful food, the most varied and inspiring scenery in Europe and probably the easiest to navigate(next to the UK) for non-natives. Everyone in Germany seems to speak some English. And there seems to be college kids everywhere you go. Geographically it's a convenient spot for getting to all points in Europe and when you need to go home or have family visit, the air transportation options are pretty decent.
Switzerland qould be my next choice but it is soooo expensive. I think I'd just stick to visiting there on weekends and holidays.
The bad news is that no place in Europe is exactly cheap. But if you are smart you can eat pretty well by consuming lots of Donor Kebabs and drinking the local beers. Everyday necessities can be found at reasonable prices at Aldi and Lidl stores. Public transportation is cheaper than here. The train system will take you everywhere and can be inexpensive if the travel during the off-peak
hours.
The biggest drawback for Germany might be the weather. Darn cold in the Winter - like numbing cold and raw. Lots of crappy weather in the Spring and Fall too. The Summer can be very hot since nobody believes in a/c. But the clear days are absolutely awesome. And who better to learn about business than from the ultra-succesful Germans?
Anyway, my preference will always be for Germany. Wonderful peole, delightful food, the most varied and inspiring scenery in Europe and probably the easiest to navigate(next to the UK) for non-natives. Everyone in Germany seems to speak some English. And there seems to be college kids everywhere you go. Geographically it's a convenient spot for getting to all points in Europe and when you need to go home or have family visit, the air transportation options are pretty decent.
Switzerland qould be my next choice but it is soooo expensive. I think I'd just stick to visiting there on weekends and holidays.
The bad news is that no place in Europe is exactly cheap. But if you are smart you can eat pretty well by consuming lots of Donor Kebabs and drinking the local beers. Everyday necessities can be found at reasonable prices at Aldi and Lidl stores. Public transportation is cheaper than here. The train system will take you everywhere and can be inexpensive if the travel during the off-peak
hours.
The biggest drawback for Germany might be the weather. Darn cold in the Winter - like numbing cold and raw. Lots of crappy weather in the Spring and Fall too. The Summer can be very hot since nobody believes in a/c. But the clear days are absolutely awesome. And who better to learn about business than from the ultra-succesful Germans?
Oct 5th, 2008, 09:22 AM
#34
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Once again, thanks for all the replies! More specifically, the places I'm looking at are:
-University of Aarhus in Denmark
-Cologne Business School in Germany
-Vilnius University in Lithuania
-University of Malta
-University of Utrecht in The Netherlands
-Lund University in Sweden
-Jonkoping Business School in Sweden
If anyone has some information about these places it would be great to hear it!
-University of Aarhus in Denmark
-Cologne Business School in Germany
-Vilnius University in Lithuania
-University of Malta
-University of Utrecht in The Netherlands
-Lund University in Sweden
-Jonkoping Business School in Sweden
If anyone has some information about these places it would be great to hear it!
Oct 6th, 2008, 12:36 AM
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Hi lauren, I'm a post-undergrad student from the US studying in Amsterdam right now. I went to Utrecht just this past weekend (only 27 minutes by train from Amsterdam Centraal) for a party. I don't know anything about the university itself, but the city was very charming, and reminded me enough of the great parts of Amsterdam combined with a college-town vibe. It actually reminded my friend and me a lot of the town where we go to school in the US. I don't know what the housing situation would be like for you there, but I imagine that Utrecht is cheaper than Amsterdam in terms of that. You mentioned that you are slightly conservative - Utrecht does have a small red-light district, not at all like what is in Amsterdam, but I imagine it's fairly easy not to walk in that area of town.
As everyone else is saying, the Dutch are great to deal with and although I haven't learned much of the language at all, I am able to have transactions in stores and at food stands which are entirely in Dutch. As an exchange student, it is sometimes difficult to meet other Dutch students. If you were in a large international program like I am, you would meet many other international students from all over the world, but we don't actually have very many Dutch student friends.
The cost of living is decent. Housing is very expensive, the Netherlands is a crowded country that way. But I am able to subsist on pasta and chicken from the grocery store, and eat out frugally and only occasionally (more for lunch than anything else). I am going to take a few trips (to Spain shortly and to London to visit my friends studying there next month), but $$ is a factor for traveling. You can do it cheaply with all the budget airlines, but it still becomes a major expense, esp. if you have to pay for accommodations.
Wherever you decide to go, I hope you have a great experience!
As everyone else is saying, the Dutch are great to deal with and although I haven't learned much of the language at all, I am able to have transactions in stores and at food stands which are entirely in Dutch. As an exchange student, it is sometimes difficult to meet other Dutch students. If you were in a large international program like I am, you would meet many other international students from all over the world, but we don't actually have very many Dutch student friends.
The cost of living is decent. Housing is very expensive, the Netherlands is a crowded country that way. But I am able to subsist on pasta and chicken from the grocery store, and eat out frugally and only occasionally (more for lunch than anything else). I am going to take a few trips (to Spain shortly and to London to visit my friends studying there next month), but $$ is a factor for traveling. You can do it cheaply with all the budget airlines, but it still becomes a major expense, esp. if you have to pay for accommodations.
Wherever you decide to go, I hope you have a great experience!
Oct 6th, 2008, 01:13 AM
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To be honest, none of those cities are especially exciting. But, I would concentrate on the quality of the school and program that you are attending. I would only go to a program where I was enrolled in normal classes. The special study-abroad classes are usually not up to snuff.
As for the schools mentioned, I think Aarhus, Lund, and Utrecht should be pretty decent. But, none on the list are what I would consider top-tier.
If you are studying business, I wouldn't worry about the language. At least in Sweden, Denmark, and Holland, the classes are very likely to be in English. Certainly, every classmate (and virtually everyone you meet) will speak English to a high standard. You can comfortably live in any of those countries without speaking a word of the local language.
As for the schools mentioned, I think Aarhus, Lund, and Utrecht should be pretty decent. But, none on the list are what I would consider top-tier.
If you are studying business, I wouldn't worry about the language. At least in Sweden, Denmark, and Holland, the classes are very likely to be in English. Certainly, every classmate (and virtually everyone you meet) will speak English to a high standard. You can comfortably live in any of those countries without speaking a word of the local language.
Oct 6th, 2008, 01:28 AM
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Utrecht is the top university in the Netherlands and lists high in the top universities in the World too. Utrecht is a lively student city, centrally placed in the Netherlands, at the centre of the railway network. It is easy to get to Amsterdam from there, and there is lots going on in the city itself, plenty of music venues, good bars, restaurants etc.
The University itself is a little way out of the city, but most students live in the city itself or in one of the surrounding towns. No doubt the university provides help in housing foreign students.
My DIL is studying to be a vet there right now.
The University itself is a little way out of the city, but most students live in the city itself or in one of the surrounding towns. No doubt the university provides help in housing foreign students.
My DIL is studying to be a vet there right now.
