Where can I go to find real Cockneys, speaking their My Fair Lady Cockney thing. Do they exist in East London anymore; precints i've been in in E London more resemble Bangladesh than anything English. have the Cockneys moved further out, are their enclaves elsewhere. Bethnel Green? Hackney marhses? Seriously is there still a Cockney environment?

Is this for real?

Yes! Sincerely yes. Was there ever a Cockney culture; is there now?

Not like Dick Van Dyke cockneys (Cor Blimey Guv'nor) - apart from when the tourists visit.

Actually, I am a Cockney, as I was born in the Stepney neighbourhood of London. However, anyone born within the sound of the bells of St. Mary-le-Bow church in the East End section of London is a Cockney. If you visit Stepney, Hackney, Shoreditch Poplar, or Bow, you will hear the Cockney dialect.

I do not use the Cockney dialect, as I have been living in the United States since I was ten years old. However, many people in my family, especially my Uncle Terry, speak using the Cockney dialect.

The true "touchstone" for differentiating between Cockney and "popular London" dialect is the monophtongization of the word "mouth." Cockneys would pronounce it as "mauf."
Cockneys also are famous for their "full glotal stop," where "bottle" becomes "bau-ul."

I have studied dialects at the University of Pennsylvania, where I received my M.A. in English. I am a certified English teacher, but I work for a famous auction house.

If you have any questions about the Cockney dialect, feel free to ask, guv.

Cheers,
JohnG.

ThinGorjous-John,

I just read this thread and thought "I know that a true Cockney was born somewhere within hearing distance of some bells". That is because my late husbands godfather was a Cockney. One of the most delightful men I have ever known.

So thanks to your answer I now know which bells!

BTW, when Bill got upset, angry or excited we could not understand a word he was saying. It was too funny. He had a great sense of humor however. So I would say to him "mind repeating that in English love". Great memories.

Wotcha Cocks

I am also a Cockney, born in Poplar almost literally outside the Blackwall Tunnel. Now living in Perth Australia but have still retained some of my accent. Pretty much agree with ThinGorjus. However, St Mary-Le-Bow is actually in the City of London not the East End as most people know it (ie East of Aldgate). Also the bells have been silent (unless they have cranked them up again) for many years so one could argue that technically, not many Cockneys have been born since they went silent. Another interesting facet of Cockney culture is rhyming slang - though not unique to Cockneys. Some of my favourites are "Butchers Hook" - Look, "Duke of Montrose" - Nose, and "Bristol Cities" - I'll leave you to work that one out but its a part of the female anatomy. More often than not only the first word is used, so an example would be "Have a butchers at that". Rumour has it that the slang was invented to confuse the local peelers (police) in the 1800's. To answer the original question, yes they do exist but the accent has been somewhat abosorbed into South East England. There is a popular soap called "Eastenders" which is a hoot.

Try Florida or southern Spain.

But they've left their traces behind. Listen to any speech by our beloved prime minister (born semi-toff, educated at a toff's school). Not one opportunity missed for those glottal (or in Cockney glow-oo) stops thingorjus loves so much.

flanneruk, uh????? Was that in English? LOL. You say what? Well, I rest my case.

If you go to the Columbia Road flower market on a Sunday morning, many of the traders are genuine cockneys.
They are also to be found on the no. 8 bus.

www.cockney.co.uk was an interesting site on this topic, but seems to be under reconstruction at the moment.

Language and culture are as much subject to change as anything else. The 'traditional' Cockney (i.e., 19th century London working class) culture (and even within that there were divisions and degrees of 'rough', 'common' or whatever) changed with wars and prosperity - the Jewish East End moved mostly north, dockers and industrial workers moved east, and so on.

Miss Prism is probably right that what PalQ is thinking of is best found in market traders (try Roman Road market as well), though nowadays there's nothing like the old crockery set sellers you used to see in Petticoat Lane ('Everything I make today is goin' to me mother-in-law's 'olidays - so the more I sell, the further she goes!').

Accents have changed too, between generations. A lot of older people were taught not to use the glottal stop, so in the suburbs they moved to, you get an over-articulated T instead (which is just as much of a class marker). The swallowed final L is still very much in evidence, but you do hear amongst teenagers a lot of new speech habits reflecting the influence of newer immigration from the Caribbean and South Asia, as well as the Australian soaps. So where a 1930s description of two girls gossiping would be 'So I says to her, and she says to me', nowadays it would be 'So I was, like, and she was, like', with a rising tone at the end of a sentence, as though everything's a question, and a good few 'innit' thrown in for good measure.

Thanks for the market references - i'll look them up as i travel more for 'local color' than museums; i'd rather 'dine' in a greasy cafe, which seems to be a dying breed in most of London, than have a gourmet meal with stuffed shirts. The market reference reminds me of two teenagers on a London commuter train - two upscale kids who were mocking a Cockney accent as i hear it, by repeating several times 'my fadder sells fruit and vegs down at the market' Thanks for the responses - this was a serious enquiry.

PatrickLondon - is that this new "chav" thing - using "innit" and (among other things) wearing too much Burberry?

I'm probably too old to notice (or care), but I think there's quite an overlap, yes. On the other hand, your classic hoop-earring, shell-suit-wearing "chav" is stereotypically assumed to be less than open-minded towards persons of a different hue, and might stage the classic screaming match in the supermarket if they catch a child using slang borrowed from such a source!

And here I am, not even aware that they HAD knees.

--Marv

I worked with a Cockney guy in a restaurant in London many years ago. He was a dish washer. I didn't understand a word he said unless someone translated.

After reading all your comments, I had my American HillBilly friend (he prefers Mountain William when he reads all the sophisticated comments from Fodorites) and he says innit a lot. He has traced his family tree back to Scotch-Irish clans who came to Jamestown, Virginia in the late 1600's.
His kin found Jamestown "too flat and crowded" and the next generation moved to the mountains in Virginia(Appalachia). Old English words(especially describing the woods and timber) sound Old English to me. But, I come from Manhattan and I only speak Dutch!
Min

Infotrack, of course they have knees.

A little boy, a cockerel (rooster US)and a monkey lost their knees and wondered what to do about it.

The little boy went to a butcher and bought some kid-knees.
The monkey went to the bank and got some ape-knees (that dates the joke (halfpennies)
The cockerel went to London for some cock-knees.
A passer by said, "You could have saved yourself a lot of trouble by going to Africa because that's where the knee grows.

minette20, On a vacation in Scotland a few years ago I was told by locals that they hate being referred to as Scotch. They call themselves Scots and say Scotch is an alcoholic beverage.

billy_goat, Oh please. that was lame.

You think you jest, Infotrack and billy_goat, but EastEnders had a character for a while whose name was always pronounced Ant-Knee.